Thread: Hypocrisy

Originally Posted by juroara

and if this man is being honest, that he honestly did feel he had to choose a doctor or God, then I would label his church as a cult - and put them on trial

What's the difference between a cult and a religion? And the christian scientists are a 'cult' that advocate against medicine.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

What's the difference between a cult and a religion? And the christian scientists are a 'cult' that advocate against medicine.

Cults actually seek power and try to use whatever it is they worship/believe/study.

Religions fail in comparison, "tbh".

Originally Posted by Merlock

Cults actually seek power and try to use whatever it is they worship/believe/study.

So a cult is just a religion that isn't hypocritical to the core?

The actual definitions for cult and religion are virtually the same. All that really differs between the two are the social connotations that accompany them.

Well, cults have their naive followers too.
As in, those that are there just out of faith and hope with no ambition or personal desires.
Religions though are 99% comprised of said followers since they don't offer any power/ability/function.

Or in other words, a cult lives in the now.
A religion is about what happens after you die.
Well, that and living according to its moral code while you are still alive.

Though in the end, cults tend to be about action. Be it whisping you away to another planet to escape the end of our world or ascending to another plain to gain great power or learning to communicate with nature in order to use it to heal or harm. Whatever. But they tend to pose a goal for life, not death.

Here's a good quote from a Hermetic text.
As in, a work that advocates magic (using the mind to alter reality).

Originally Posted by Kybalion

The possession of Knowledge, unless accompanied by a manifestation and expression in Action, is like the hoarding of precious metals — a vain and foolish thing. Knowledge, like Wealth, is intended for Use. The Law of Use is Universal, and he who violates it suffers by reason of his conflict with natural forces.

You'll obviously never see anything like this in religion, as religion has no application.
There is no divine magic available to anyone, as magic is a science as well.
Rituals/spells are used to get a certain result. If your praying has no observable result...it doesn't work.

So in short...that father, aside from being a monster who killed his own child and hasn't gone insane with grief over it, is an utter idiot as well.

Originally Posted by Xei

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8180116.stm

I find this extremely hypocritical of the US.

You're supposed to be a Christian nation. Your media drones on and on about the power of prayer and the love of God.

And then when somebody attempts to apply it, you sentence them to 25 years in prison?

I can't stand this ridiculous doublethink. If praying for a dying girl is illegal, then God is illegal. You can't pick and choose for chrissakes, they're mutually inclusive; it's completely logically sound if God is legal to act in a way that assumes the existence of God.

*fumes*

To a degree, I agree with Exo. I might not choose his same words, but lets be realistic for a moment:

It is the common belief that "God works in mysterious ways" correct? If we assume for the sake of argument that God Exists, then as Exo said, didn't God give this man all the resources needed to heal his daughter? He had doctors that could've saved her. If anything, THAT was God's way of trying to help (if we assume the existence of God).

The man deserves to go jail, and it can be reasoned 1 of 2 ways:

Either he ignored God's gift of intelligence and resources of Doctors

Or he was negligent and allowed his daughter to die without seeking medical treatment.

Either way, both are wrong, and both should be punished. If you are someone who believes in God, then you would assume the first option (or both). If you don't believe in God, you assume the 2nd one.

No matter how you look at it, he deserved to go to jail.

It's really tricky.

if we say that people are allowed to have their religion, but not to act on it, then we are negating the "value" of their religion and might as well say that they can't have a religion or that they can only have a state approved religion. If we let the preacher tell them (i'm not sure that one did in this case, but let's assume) that medicine is insulting god, then we can't expect them to do seek medical advice. Remember, that's the thing that's so hard about religion: people see god differently. Saying that god works in "mysterious ways" may well rule out mundane things for some of them.

On the other hand, if we say that preachers aren't allowed to say certain things, then we are violating freedom of speech.

As much as I despise religion, I have a genuinely hard time doing either. I don't think that they should go to jail. If we are going to have freedoms, than they do come with a cost. It looks like her life was one of those costs in this case.

Originally Posted by Xei

The problem is that that stance is not logically consistent. As I alluded to, the stance effectively endorses nonsensical thinking (as prayer is a subset of this). What if there was a religious branch which stated that God abhors medicine, as it is an attempt to interfere in his will? I mean, God is omnipotent, so it follows that he tried to kill that man's daughter; so really, if that man was a true Christian, he should have just let his daughter die instead of attempting to save her, in a clear violation of God's will.

See what I mean? The entire thing leads unavoidably to ridiculous ideas like that.

I see your point. And this would be true if the religion of the nation was one that held such an extremist view. In this case, it would only be hypocrisy if the nation's belief system was that of the man in question. He is a minority. Logic and Reason was able to prevail in this case, while still being consistent with the nation's religious beliefs.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

You seriously need to chill out.

Fine.

Originally Posted by Advantageous Noodle

ExoByte, I'm so sorry to have to tell you this, but grow up. The atheists are allowed to insult the Christians all they want, say abolish this religion, abolish that one. But whenever the Christians try to defend themselves from it the atheists cry out that they're being oppressed by the 'Bible-thumpers.' It's fucking ludicrous. The atheists (on this website) just continue to prove themselves to be complete fakes at every single turn. It's an absolutely disgusting and childish way of thinking. You have every single ounce of my pity. I know that I'm getting into trouble for this, but seriously folks...

Where is the fairness? Where is equality and respect? Seriously, something's gotta give sooner or later. Can we base our decisions on logic and information and conscience as opposed to how much we hate someone just because they have different beliefs? Come the fuck on kids.

EDIT - sorry ExoByte. I didn't realize that you're only eighteen years old. I apologize for holding you to the standard of people who actually know what they're talking about and why they say what they say. It was completely my bad.

Who the fuck are you, and what the fuck are you talking about? I was defending the religious aspect in my post. I was taking a Christian perspective, not arguing against it. Are you illiterate? What hate was I spreading? Where did I bash anyone? Where did I claim Atheism as the path to enlightenment or call Christianity bat-shit bonkers? I, an Atheist, defended a religious aspect of a nation from an another Atheist whom used an argument I found illogical. You're lack of comprehension for the simplest of discussions paints a rather disturbing picture.

And yes, I'm sure as a 21 year old you are much more enlightened than me and have much more experience. I apologize, I should respect my elders. You're much older than I and have lived through the harshness of this world for so much longer. You're an entire generation ahead of me. I apologize.

Imbecile.

EDIT: Sorry O.

Originally Posted by Kastro187420

To a degree, I agree with Exo. I might not choose his same words, but lets be realistic for a moment:

It is the common belief that "God works in mysterious ways" correct? If we assume for the sake of argument that God Exists, then as Exo said, didn't God give this man all the resources needed to heal his daughter? He had doctors that could've saved her. If anything, THAT was God's way of trying to help (if we assume the existence of God).

The man deserves to go jail, and it can be reasoned 1 of 2 ways:

Either he ignored God's gift of intelligence and resources of Doctors

Or he was negligent and allowed his daughter to die without seeking medical treatment.

Either way, both are wrong, and both should be punished. If you are someone who believes in God, then you would assume the first option (or both). If you don't believe in God, you assume the 2nd one.

No matter how you look at it, he deserved to go to jail.

Kastro is a nicer man than I.

Originally Posted by ExoByte

Who the fuck are you, and what the fuck are you talking about? I was defending the religious aspect in my post. I was taking a Christian perspective, not arguing against it. Are you illiterate? What hate was I spreading? Where did I bash anyone? Where did I claim Atheism as the path to enlightenment or call Christianity bat-shit bonkers? I, an Atheist, defended a religious aspect of a nation from an another Atheist whom used an argument I found illogical. You're lack of comprehension for the simplest of discussions paints a rather disturbing picture.

And yes, I'm sure as a 21 year old you are much more enlightened than me and have much more experience. I apologize, I should respect my elders. You're much older than I and have lived through the harshness of this world for so much longer. You're an entire generation ahead of me. I apologize.

Imbecile.

Behavior like that is exactly what the wise old man is talking about.

Not really. He more or less preached about how, because I'm an Atheist I'm an Anti-Religious zealot, posting my anti-religious hate speech and claiming I'm a victim of oppression from the religious institutions. I mean, it doesn't matter that I was defending that religious aspect of the discussed society or anything.

If the post was somewhere along the lines of "Exo, you have a bad attitude" except more colorfully worded, I'd totally understand. That'd make sense. But here I sit trying to figure out where I alluded to destroying religion, where I argued religion was a pox on the world, where I said religion oppressed me as an Atheist and where I spouted Atheist zeal.

But, on the note you posted, I'm a jerk people. Get used to it.

you're on poe's law camera

EDIT: In his defense, he has had any point he might think he has to make kicked all over the place by pretty much everyone that looks at it. That would put me in a bad mood too.

Originally Posted by Xei

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8180116.stm

I find this extremely hypocritical of the US.

You're supposed to be a Christian nation. Your media drones on and on about the power of prayer and the love of God.

And then when somebody attempts to apply it, you sentence them to 25 years in prison?

I can't stand this ridiculous doublethink. If praying for a dying girl is illegal, then God is illegal. You can't pick and choose for chrissakes, they're mutually inclusive; it's completely logically sound if God is legal to act in a way that assumes the existence of God.

*fumes*

Do I sense some sarcasm