Thread: A question for Christians who accept evolution.

Eating, in heaven? Can you starve to death in heaven?

Yeah but when you do you just go to heaven again.

I personally always believed that God will accept you as long a you accept him, even if you do not believe in him.

If you are a good person, you help others, you work for your community and live to the standards God set, then you are fine. Its just difficult to live to such a standard if you do not believe in him or any type of god, which is why he set out a path to help guide people to him.

If you spent your time helping the homeless, and you knew everyone in your neighborhood and were good friends with them and spoke with them on a daily biases, and you spend time speaking with your friends and family about what you believe in and how to become a better person, do you still need to go to church? Probably not, I am sure god would forgive, because you are leading the life he wishes you to. Most people wont do all of that, so they go to church for it.

I know exactly what you mean. It doesn't make sense to me that someone who lives their life just trying to be a good person would go to hell because they don't go to church, but someone who is a total asshole would go to heaven because they do.

Its not about just going to church or just being a good person. In the Christian faith the only way to heaven is through Jesus... He is our savior. He died on the cross for us. asking God to forgive and inviting Jesus into your life as your lord and savior is the only way to heaven. The road to hell is lined with good intentions.

Again, what's up with all the name calling. Can you not understand respect for ones personal beliefs. If you do not want to hear what I am saying then stop asking these questions.

Originally Posted by davej

Its not about just going to church or just being a good person. In the Christian faith the only way to heaven is through Jesus... He is our savior. He died on the cross for us. asking God to forgive and inviting Jesus into your life as your lord and savior is the only way to heaven. The road to hell is lined with good intentions.

Again, what's up with all the name calling. Can you not understand respect for ones personal beliefs. If you do not want to hear what I am saying then stop asking these questions.

Is there anything God can't do?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Is there anything God can't do?

Nope.

Originally Posted by davej

Can you not understand respect for ones personal beliefs.

Davej, you are a good person, but you did not accept my god as lord, and as such deserve to burn eternally in a pit of fire.

Can you respect my beliefs?



Beliefs are tolerable when they don't involve hateful thoughts of others. Hateful beliefs should never be tolerated.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Nope.

So he could get rid of suffering without there being a problem with doing it?

The only thing that God cannot do is act contrary to His own character and nature. For example, Titus 1:2 states that He cannot lie. Because He is holy (Isaiah 6:3; 1 Peter 1:16), He cannot sin. Because He is just, He cannot merely overlook sin. Because Christ paid the penalty for sin, He is now able to forgive those who will turn to Christ (Isaiah 53:1-12; Romans 3:26).

Originally Posted by davej

The only thing that God cannot do is act contrary to His own character and nature. For example, Titus 1:2 states that He cannot lie. Because He is holy (Isaiah 6:3; 1 Peter 1:16), He cannot sin. Because He is just, He cannot merely overlook sin. Because Christ paid the penalty for sin, He is now able to forgive those who will turn to Christ (Isaiah 53:1-12; Romans 3:26).

Then there is something he cannot do. Can he make suffering unnecessary without there being a problem with doing that?

[QUOTE=Invader;1145877]Davej, you are a good person, but you did not accept my god as lord, and as such deserve to burn eternally in a pit of fire.

Can you respect my beliefs?

If those are your true beliefs then yes. I may be inclined to ask you about your religion out of curosity, not to belittle or challenge. I took a course in college, Religions of the World, and I did find it very interesting and I can respect other peoples religions and faith. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean I can't respect someone eles' religion.

Dave, it looks like we posted at about the same time. Make sure you see my last post.

Can we not say that we cause ourselves to suffer?

Can we not say that we cause ourselves to suffer?

Originally Posted by davej

If those are your true beliefs then yes.

They were an example used to make a point, not my actual beliefs, just so that we're clear. In any event, I congratulate you for being able to tolerate such negative feelings towards others. It's a characteristic I lack.

I can repect another person's beliefs. It is what they believe is the truth. Who am i to say that they are wrong. I believe the Christian faith is the truth and expect the same respect because those are my beliefs.

Originally Posted by davej

Can we not say that we cause ourselves to suffer?

No we cannot. We suffer because of the way the world works. I'm in no way taking responsibility if a meteorite hits me in the head right now.

Originally Posted by Catbus

That's my thinking on the issue (even thought I don't believe in the afterlife), but the God that the Pastor describes is usually not quite so forgiving. He pretty much describes the typical "fire and brimstone" and ultra vengeful God.

But yeah guys, thanks for the answers. I have a feeling this topic will be coming up a lot in youth group discussions.

and that is the God of the Old testament, and God's laws do not change, the Bible says that to. Hell even Jesus said he hadn't come to change his fathers law but fulfil them. Which sounds odd as that would suggest stones would magically kill every homosexual or something, but it sounds to me he means the Old testament is still valid, even though most Christians say they do not have to follow the laws of the OT.

Originally Posted by davej

Can we not say that we cause ourselves to suffer?

How did the families of 9/11 victims cause themselves to suffer? How do families of Tsunami victims cause themselves to suffer? How do parents of children with cancer cause themselves to suffer? How do those children cause themselves to suffer? How do people with chemical depressions cause themselves to suffer? How do rape victims cause themselves to suffer? How did the European Jews of the 1940's cause themselves to suffer?

"At that very season there were certain ones present that reported to him about the Gal·i·le′ans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2*So in reply he said to them: “Do YOU imagine that these Gal·i·le′ans were proved worse sinners than all other Gal·i·le′ans because they have suffered these things? 3*No, indeed, I tell YOU; but, unless YOU repent, YOU will all likewise be destroyed. 4*Or those eighteen upon whom the tower in Si·lo′am fell, thereby killing them, do YOU imagine that they were proved greater debtors than all other men inhabiting Jerusalem? 5*No, indeed, I tell YOU; but, unless YOU repent, YOU will all be destroyed in the same way.”"-- Luke 13:1-5

And ironically, Ecclesiastes 9:11 says
"I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all."

Sometimes bad things simply happen. It doesn't mean the person did it to themselves or that Satan directly caused it to happen. Sometimes it comes down to "being in the wrong place at the wrong time".

God is not stepping in at this time because he has to let the issue of His Sovereignty be settled. In the Garden of Eden, Satan called God a liar. Satan told Adam and Eve, basically, that they could choose for themselves what is good and evil and rule themselves perfectly fine without God.

Then at Job 2:4-5 Satan told God that people wouldn't serve Him if they were suffering.
"But Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Skin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul [life]. 5*For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch as far as his bone and his flesh [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.”"
Satan didn't say 'everything that Job has' he said "man" (and by extension, women).

That issue needs to be settled as well, but only we as individuals can settle it. Countless people already have.

It amazes me that people understand certain things about governments but never apply that knowledge to God's Kingdom.
Let's say God and his government were here on earth. God's a real person and so are the angels. Here comes Satan who goes out into the kingdom and tells the people that their ruler is lying to them and they don't need him to tell them what to do. All of the angels see what's going on. How does the king react? Does he kill Satan? What would the angels think? Does he kill the peasants and start over once they sided with Satan? What would that prove?
The King is very wise and says: "Okay. You don't need me? Let's see how well you do on your own. I told you if you ate from that tree you will die. That's because when I kick you out of my Kingdom to create your own, you'll no longer have access to the food* that made you live forever."

When the people leave, they try out different forms of governments but none of them work perfectly. They tend to become filled with corrupt people with their own agendas. War and crime and suffering result.

God will return however. But will we be found traitors? The story has to play out or God wouldn't be just. No, it isn't just that people suffer and die. But God didn't create the problem.



*I'm not literally saying that people could have lived forever by eating certain things in the Garden. It's an illustrative example only.

I have to look for it, but it says somewhere in the Bible that people who have not had exposure to/capacity to understand the Christian religion will be sent to Heaven as a show of mercy.


/thread

Ummm, i havent read any other posts besides the first one... but tell your pastor that humans haven't evolved much in the last 2000 years... and thats when jesus was around. so... how ask him how the fuck they could know about jesus before he existed.

Plus, tell him the story of jesus and god is just a theory as well as evolution.... and it's about believing... and he's a dumbass.

(of course I read al lthe posts after i post, and everyone mentioned this) sorry, just got quick to posting after reading the first one... lol

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

So he could get rid of suffering without there being a problem with doing it?

Yep.