Thread: The Experiment.

To correct some of those details is the only reason I'd try it a second time.

Also, tkdyo, I pronounced the names with Latin phonetics.

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I think it definately desrves another attempt,though you'll likely get the same result, because it seems that a few details were not quite nailed down...

Originally Posted by Invader

To correct some of those details is the only reason I'd try it a second time.

Also, tkdyo, I pronounced the names with Latin phonetics.

What I am not getting is why you would actually want it to work. In other words, I don't understand why you want to do this at all. I don't believe in demons, but if they were real, I would not want to have anything to do with them. It's like standing on top of a building and doing a whole bunch of stuff to see if the building will collapse. Either you have no results or you are fucked. Why do you want to do this?

Note: Just then, I was cutting and pasting. Do you know how when you highlight words and move your wrist the wrong way some of the words can end up in a different place? Well, that just happened, and the words, "I don't believe in demons," after a period and a space appeared above the paragraph. I am completely serious.

If you haven't gamboled thrice widddershins, the reasons are obvious for fails.

There are two reasons, UM. The first is to create some kind of evidence for
the existence of sentient beings that have been attested to in earlier
religious texts. Any kind of proof that can be provided for a creature like a
demon (jinn, spirit) would have profound implications for my(our) worldviews.
The second reason is because I believe the advantages of a relationship
made in this particular way with a demon has advantages that outweigh the
potential dangers.

Throughout occult history there are two kinds of direct relationships that can
exist between a human being and a malevolent spirit. One relationship
involves a form of trade (deal) in which the human being performs a symbolic
act (usually against a higher benevolent power) in exchange for the services
of the demon. The other relationship, the one I'm using, is a one way
arrangement. The spirit is compelled to do what they must, and because of
that they cannot go out of their way to cause direct harm (had they free will
in this case, they wouldn't have to appear or obey any command at all). If
any of it works at all, that is. If they exist, I'd like answers to my questions
more than anything else. Knowledge, that is.

Your cut-pasting issue sounds appropriately coincidental, too.



Taosaur, maybe you should try this. When you gambol thrice widdershins,
you should do it outside of the summoning ring.

Originally Posted by Invader

One relationship
involves a form of trade (deal) in which the human being performs a symbolic
act (usually against a higher benevolent power) in exchange for the services
of the demon. The other relationship, the one I'm using, is a one way
arrangement. The spirit is compelled to do what they must, and because of
that they cannot go out of their way to cause direct harm (had they free will
in this case, they wouldn't have to appear or obey any command at all).

All conscious beings have free-will. Free-will and consciousness is two sides of the same coin.

Both of the relationships you are describing are bad, especially considering the fact that you think you are perfectly safe, you are not.

I also serious doubt that you will get any solid evidence, you may get personal confirmation but in any case it could have negative implications on you.

I don't understand why you would want to use old religious text to make something paranormal happen, that is but a tiny fraction of one can do to experience the "paranormal" or non-physical phenomena.

I find do not find it wise to attempt contact with the beings you are seeking, if you are (un)lucky enough contact some, what will you do? Do you have complete control of the situation? Would you risk your well-being to get any contact with the something outside our normal view and experience?

I find it a little desperate to do this, have the patience to experience when ready to experience, the access comes naturally when it should.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What I am not getting is why you would actually want it to work. In other words, I don't understand why you want to do this at all. I don't believe in demons, but if they were real, I would not want to have anything to do with them. It's like standing on top of a building and doing a whole bunch of stuff to see if the building will collapse. Either you have no results or you are fucked. Why do you want to do this?

Note: Just then, I was cutting and pasting. Do you know how when you highlight words and move your wrist the wrong way some of the words can end up in a different place? Well, that just happened, and the words, "I don't believe in demons," after a period and a space appeared above the paragraph. I am completely serious.

Demons , spirits, elementals... All you need is control.

Originally Posted by Invader

The second reason is because I believe the advantages of a relationship
made in this particular way with a demon has advantages that outweigh the
potential dangers.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

'98 was a fine vintage

This year ain't half bad, either.

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

All conscious beings have free-will. Free-will and consciousness is two sides of the same coin.

At least until you're compelled to do something, whether that's through a
psychological disorder or a drug addiction. We can argue whether or not one
still possesses their free will if they have extreme OCD episode, for example,
but it'd get us nowhere. The point of conjuring is to compel.

Both of the relationships you are describing are bad, especially considering the fact that you think you are perfectly safe, you are not.

Maybe, maybe not. If the art of conjuring is real, it offers some validity to
the purpose of the circles and other preparations (which are expressly for
protection).

I don't understand why you would want to use old religious text to make something paranormal happen, that is but a tiny fraction of one can do to experience the "paranormal" or non-physical phenomena.

This is a bit easier to answer. I chose a ritual that involved the transfer of a
physical object to non physical beings. I know of no such other paranormal
event I can create that does something like this without it just being a grand
hallucination. Maybe you can offer me some ideas?

I find it a little desperate to do this, have the patience to experience when ready to experience, the access comes naturally when it should.

One thing that others seemed to be getting at is that I would "creep myself
out" or be subject to some nonsense feeling from being outdoors at night in
the middle of nowhere to do this. There's no desperation here. There's no
fear of what I'm attempting. Again, there's only danger if this is real, and if
it's real then it suggests the validity of all the precautions given in the texts
i've taken my information from, precautions that I've followed.

Originally Posted by Invader

At least until you're compelled to do something, whether that's through a
psychological disorder or a drug addiction. We can argue whether or not one
still possesses their free will if they have extreme OCD episode, for example,
but it'd get us nowhere. The point of conjuring is to compel.

You would still have to see how the morality of confining the free-will of another being is. I question, that you simply do not care of other beings right to free-will, whether you change it or not. Have you thought about that?

Maybe, maybe not. If the art of conjuring is real, it offers some validity to
the purpose of the circles and other preparations (which are expressly for
protection).

Protective circles and techniques works because of the intent you are expressing, intent basically modifies information, reality is just information, so preparations would have an effect.

This is a bit easier to answer. I chose a ritual that involved the transfer of a
physical object to non physical beings. I know of no such other paranormal
event I can create that does something like this without it just being a grand
hallucination. Maybe you can offer me some ideas?

It is beyond the rule-set of this physical-reality to do such thing, I can say that the chance of such thing happening is very little.

I think the purpose of your experiment is good (to validate non-physical) but your approach is drastic and very unnecessary.

It may be expecting too much, do you think the expected result of the experiment is realistic?

One thing that others seemed to be getting at is that I would "creep myself
out" or be subject to some nonsense feeling from being outdoors at night in
the middle of nowhere to do this. There's no desperation here. There's no
fear of what I'm attempting. Again, there's only danger if this is real, and if
it's real then it suggests the validity of all the precautions given in the texts
i've taken my information from, precautions that I've followed.

Your are basing your framework on some old texts filled with superstition. If you succeed in "conjuring" anything it would not be because of the text, but because of your intent which is focused through these rituals.
The same applies to the precautions.

There exist no magic words, with magic meaning. The words and rituals always start as a technique, and then gradually devolves to rituals which becomes a part of the religion or belief, throw in all the goodies that comes with belief and you have the ritual, which in essence is unnecessary.

This applies to healing, lucid dream techniques, OOBE, conjuring, summoning, meditation, mantras and etc. the techniques are training-wheels
for one, they just help to focus the intent. Often the training-wheels becomes a burden, when one becomes better and better to for example meditation one does not have to say the mantra, the mantra is just there to make you focused and occupy ones thoughts.

You may be limiting yourself when you think the old texts are needed, or necessary.

Goodnight

Originally Posted by slash112

.

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

You would still have to see how the morality of confining the free-will of another being is. I question, that you simply do not care of other beings right to free-will, whether you change it or not. Have you thought about that?

Yes, I've thought about it. I feel the same on this as I feel about the free
will of criminals. I wouldn't be going out of my way to imprison a being of
good will.

It is beyond the rule-set of this physical-reality to do such thing, I can say that the chance of such thing happening is very little.

But I'm doing this because I don't know that. I don't know what the
probability of success for something like this is, or how one would even
calculate it.

There exist no magic words, with magic meaning. The words and rituals always start as a technique, and then gradually devolves to rituals which becomes a part of the religion or belief, throw in all the goodies that comes with belief and you have the ritual, which in essence is unnecessary.

This applies to healing, lucid dream techniques, OOBE, conjuring, summoning, meditation, mantras and etc. the techniques are training-wheels
for one, they just help to focus the intent. Often the training-wheels becomes a burden, when one becomes better and better to for example meditation one does not have to say the mantra, the mantra is just there to make you focused and occupy ones thoughts.

Meditation, mantras, and lucid dreams are like one way media. It involves
only you. When you throw another mind into the equation, things change. I
know there are no magic words, and there were no magic words in the
conjuration. Conjurations are very basic (O [Spirit]! I, so-and-so, by the
virtue of your superiors do command you to make yourself present etc etc),
as if you were making a formal statement. The names written within the
circle aren't magical either, sure, but they don't just mean nothing when
another creature is there to see it as well. What if I was the demon, and you
called me? If you had nothing there with which to identify yourself or make
your purpose known, I might be upset and decide to harass you. If, on the
other hand, you had something I could recognize as, say, the symbol of one
of my lords (I'm making this up), I'd be more inclined to pay attention to
what you'd have to say. Those precautions are only there for the spirit to
recognize, you see.

Again, that's assuming that these beings even exist. If they do, the rituals
may have developed through the consultation of other beings like demons, or
anything that would possess knowledge beyond what we're typically familiar
with. With one way 'magic', I'll agree that everything would be about your
intentions. I explained that to a friend some months ago when he began
asking about amulets and... that sort of thing. Not that I practice it. I don't.



You also asked if I thought the results of my test were realistic. My answer
was (and is) no. I did expect that something could happen, and I believed
that there was potential.

I warn you, if you succeed, you realize that a spiritual realm exists. And a God does too. Weather you will believe that or not, realize that sorcery is one of the worst possible abominations by Gods standards.

Please reconsider! Demons are nothing to toy with! I know all this because of what I've read, heard, and know as a Christian.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Weather you will believe that or not, realize that sorcery is one of the worst possible abominations by Gods standards.

That's debatable. Sorcery was stigmatized because of the way it was
purportedly used (to fulfill desires of greed, power, etc). There are other uses.
Besides, my attempt failed, as was previously stated.

Originally Posted by Noogah

I warn you, if you succeed, you realize that a spiritual realm exists. And a God does too. Weather you will believe that or not, realize that sorcery is one of the worst possible abominations by Gods standards.

Please reconsider! Demons are nothing to toy with! I know all this because of what I've read, heard, and know as a Christian.

No offense but please take your fear instilled into you by a Holy book that claims God contacted "Adam and Eve" yet their is no record of the Abrahamic god till way after the dawn of man into another thread. Religion and spiritualism and contact with the spiritual realm is far older than the pile of dogma and fear of the unknown contained within the Christian church. Some of us are enjoying the experiment and don't need fear mongering.

Please see Shamans, Pagans, etc.. All older than the religion of Christians, and lots of them contacting other worldy beings.

Please abominations is nothing but another rule in the book of things Christians and Jews were against and trying to get rid of.

Magick was a big pagan belief, so of course it is wrong just like believing in another god ... remember to stone that whole village if one is a nonbeliever like Yahweh said in the Old Testament.

It's alright DeathCell. Anyone can choose to share whatever opinion on this
they wish, whether they think my idea is terrible or great. I'm open to whatever
input people have to offer, and I'll hear what they have to say.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

No offense but please take your fear instilled into you by a Holy book that claims God contacted "Adam and Eve" yet their is no record of the Abrahamic god till way after the dawn of man into another thread. Religion and spiritualism and contact with the spiritual realm is far older than the pile of dogma and fear of the unknown contained within the Christian church. Some of us are enjoying the experiment and don't need fear mongering.

Please see Shamans, Pagans, etc.. All older than the religion of Christians, and lots of them contacting other worldy beings.

Please abominations is nothing but another rule in the book of things Christians and Jews were against and trying to get rid of.

Magick was a big pagan belief, so of course it is wrong just like believing in another god ... remember to stone that whole village if one is a nonbeliever like Yahweh said in the Old Testament.

___________

Originally Posted by Invader

It's alright DeathCell. Anyone can choose to share whatever opinion on this
they wish, whether they think my idea is terrible or great. I'm open to whatever
input people have to offer, and I'll hear what they have to say.

Listen, it's not the idea. I'm just telling you that it's possible! (Not for me. For me, it's a reality.) By your standards, it can be possible. I didn't say...

"OH DUDE!!!!!!!!! GOD HATES YOU HE WANTS TO KILL YOU RITE NOW FALL ON YOUR KNEES AND BEG FOR MERCY OR YOU WILL BE SCORCHED SO BAD THAT YOU WONT WHAT DO! AAAAHHHH!!!!!!!"

I gave you a considerate warning. Some of you may think Christianity is crazy. But if you can believe in summoning demons, or even have the theory of evolution, we're in the same book alright!?

I'm sorry. I generally try to stay composed. I consider myself a rational, and considerate person. I just don't understand why people keep mocking my beliefs! We creationists are so discriminated on this forum. I always try to respect all forms of theism, and atheism.

Originally Posted by Noogah

___________



Listen, it's not the idea. I'm just telling you that it's possible! (Not for me. For me, it's a reality.) By your standards, it can be possible. I didn't say...

"OH DUDE!!!!!!!!! GOD HATES YOU HE WANTS TO KILL YOU RITE NOW FALL ON YOUR KNEES AND BEG FOR MERCY OR YOU WILL BE SCORCHED SO BAD THAT YOU WONT WHAT DO! AAAAHHHH!!!!!!!"

I gave you a considerate warning. Some of you may think Christianity is crazy. But if you can believe in summoning demons, or even have the theory of evolution, we're in the same book alright!?

I'm sorry. I generally try to stay composed. I consider myself a rational, and considerate person. I just don't understand why people keep mocking my beliefs! We creationists are so discriminated on this forum. I always try to respect all forms of theism, and atheism.

Christianity is g*rb*ge. It's not the oldest religion, and it caused the Dark ages... the worst period of history the human race has ever experienced.

Don't shower, the demons will get you. That's another lost lesson of Christianity I assume?

I will never respect a group of people that called for the deaths of thousands in the name of Jesus. I will never respect the always Christian coming into a thread and claiming NO STOP THE DEMONS SATAN WILL GET YOU, nonsense. Satan was even designed after pagan Goat gods... it's ridiculous.. You so trust words from the middle ages and beyond as fact without even realizing Christianity is nothing but a collection of Jewish and Pagan myths stolen and tooled to convert the large pagan masses of an earlier time. It's not an original religion, it's a hodgepodge of stolen material, and tooled specifically to shun other religions.


P.S. Some peoples realities revolve around flying unicorns and glow in the dark leprechauns..

I say sell the bridle on ebay as dom gear and call it a wash.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

I say sell the bridle on ebay as dom gear

lul

Originally Posted by Taosaur

I say sell the bridle on ebay as dom gear and call it a wash.

Sounds like someone is interested. You can place your opening bid in a PM.