Thread: God's minute

Originally Posted by Noogah

What? Did you even read the continuation of my post? What does Hitler have to do with any of this?

You expressed a very Nazi like mentality of God. Really, such a God would be infinitely more evil than Hitler. At least Hitler merely killed his victims.

I don't believe in Hell. I could not possibly choose it while I don't think it exists. Explain how I could. Try not to dodge.

You can choose to believe in hell. Your not some wee little infant with sensitive nerves. Be a man, and come to grips with things. There are some things that are hard to accept but true! You have an alternative. According to your mentality:

I can either go to Hell, or there is no Hell.

OOOOOOORRRRRRR.....

You can become a Christian.



Come to grips with whats hard to grip, or continue with the easy life. EIther way, you'll have to answer up someday.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You can choose to believe in hell. Your not some wee little infant with sensitive nerves. Be a man, and come to grips with things. There are some things that are hard to accept but true! You have an alternative. According to your mentality:

I can either go to Hell, or there is no Hell.

OOOOOOORRRRRRR.....

You can become a Christian.

What????? The Truly Senseless Thread is in Senseless Banter.

I can't choose to believe Christianity any more than you can choose to believe you are a movie star.

The grass withers and the flowers
fall, but the word of our God stands
forever."
( Isaiah 40:8 NIV )


Now it is important to remember that God is in
Control in these uncertain times, just as HE has been
from the very beginning! For; In the beginning
God created the heavens and the earth,
and, He covers the sky with clouds; He
supplies the earth with rain and makes grass
grow on the hills. (Genesis 1:1)(Psalms 147:8)

Also; He determines the number of the stars
and calls them each by name. Great is our Lord
and mighty in power; His understanding has no
limit. ( Psalm 147:4-5 )

Therefore, no matter what problems you may
face, know that GOD is always with you. So; Be
strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or
terrified because of them, for the LORD your
God goes with you; He will never leave you nor
forsake you." ( Deut 31:6 ) For the eyes of the
LORD are on the righteous, And His ears are
attentive to their prayers; but the face of the
Lord is against those who do evil.
( 1 Peter 3:12 )

Originally Posted by Noogah

I wonder what you'll think if you actually go there. God was never that light hearted about Hell, and did not treat it as a joke. Anyone who has actually bothered reading the Bible can see that he in no way finds it funny. It grieves him that you would choose to ignore him, and choose hell. It's a concious choice No one forced you either way. Why do you have to slap God in the face with that junk?

God is an idiot if that grieves him and a sadistic dictator if it doesn't.

To choose something I actually have to be given a choice. If choice to you means believing in a specific fairytale then I choose The Lord of The Rings.
It's not a choice because I'm not choosing anything. I can make up a god and a hell right now and tell you you're choosing hell for not believing my god, how does that feel? And yes I am forced into a specific choice. It's called a brain, god made it, wanted me to use it and if he actually exists he forced me into nonbelief.

You'll see how much choice you had when you'll be denied enterance to Valhalla.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You can choose to believe in hell. Your not some wee little infant with sensitive nerves. Be a man, and come to grips with things. There are some things that are hard to accept but true! You have an alternative. According to your mentality:

I can either go to Hell, or there is no Hell.

OOOOOOORRRRRRR.....

You can become a Christian.

Come to grips with whats hard to grip, or continue with the easy life. EIther way, you'll have to answer up someday.

How can an intelligent person believe in hell beside through indoctrination? Hell is a place that's spiritual and somehow has some physical form. I'll leave my body on Earth and go there in spirit form, but somehow I'll burn in hell. Burning is a process depending on physical laws found in our universe and it's the same thing for pain. Not to mention the fact that every cognitive and behavioral process emerges from the brain. I won't be the same person if I give myself a lobotomy and I won't be the same person I was as a kid, when I die. The only thing that gives the illusion of continuity is memory. Face it, the old idea of the soul is obsolete, especially now when we actually know a lot more about the universe and our part in it.

Either way, you'll have to face the fact one day, that what you believe in doesn't equal to an objective truth. Even if by a stroke of luck Christianity is true, I don't care if I go to hell, it doesn't matter if one ends up in a heaven or hell, with infinity they both lose meaning.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What????? The Truly Senseless Thread is in Senseless Banter.

I can't choose to believe Christianity any more than you can choose to believe you are a movie star.

CONGRATS! YOU WON THE STUPIDEST QUOTE OF THE YEAR AWARD!

Are you TRYING to act like an idiot!? Because your being one.

If your brain truly does not have the capacity to believe something, than YOU'RE the missing link!

Would you act this way to someone who believes in ghosts? No. You wouldn't.

So don't do it to people who believe in God. The Mayans believed in a God. ARguably the most intelligent tribe in the history of the world.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

God is an idiot if that grieves him and a sadistic dictator if it doesn't.

To choose something I actually have to be given a choice. If choice to you means believing in a specific fairytale then I choose The Lord of The Rings.
It's not a choice because I'm not choosing anything. I can make up a god and a hell right now and tell you you're choosing hell for not believing my god, how does that feel? And yes I am forced into a specific choice. It's called a brain, god made it, wanted me to use it and if he actually exists he forced me into nonbelief.

You'll see how much choice you had when you'll be denied enterance to Valhalla.


How can an intelligent person believe in hell beside through indoctrination? Hell is a place that's spiritual and somehow has some physical form. I'll leave my body on Earth and go there in spirit form, but somehow I'll burn in hell. Burning is a process depending on physical laws found in our universe and it's the same thing for pain. Not to mention the fact that every cognitive and behavioral process emerges from the brain. I won't be the same person if I give myself a lobotomy and I won't be the same person I was as a kid, when I die. The only thing that gives the illusion of continuity is memory. Face it, the old idea of the soul is obsolete, especially now when we actually know a lot more about the universe and our part in it.

Either way, you'll have to face the fact one day, that what you believe in doesn't equal to an objective truth. Even if by a stroke of luck Christianity is true, I don't care if I go to hell, it doesn't matter if one ends up in a heaven or hell, with infinity they both lose meaning.

Heres your choice. Get saved, or do whatever. If you dont get saved, I encourage you to leave these forums and enjoy life to it's fullest, because Hell or no Hell, you have an average span of seventy years.

You can get saved, and not believe in Hell. You can get saved, and believe in Hell. If believing that theres a God is any harder than believing that we are an accident, than thats your problem.

The choice is not as hard as you think, but you've already closed your mind, so it doesn't matter.

God's minute will be put on hold for a couple of weeks due to my wife and I going on vacation. I hope everyone has a great 2 weeks, I know we will!

So how do I open my mind? By closing it again the christian way? Wow, that's very open.
Who said we were an accident? All I can tell about the universe is what I see. I see thousands of religions all claiming the same things in different ways, all having the same proofs and lack of proofs. Can one be more open than being an atheist agnostic?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

If God is compassionate and tenderfully merciful, why did he inflict a worldwide Katrina?

Don't ask "why," because it is part of nature. It is neither good nor bad.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

And what does one do in heaven?

Well in Heaven, nothing needs to be done, and all "doing" is revealed to be an illusion. So I'd say, the answer is "nothing." It sounds boring on its own, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I don't believe in Hell. I could not possibly choose it while I don't think it exists. Explain how I could. Try not to dodge.

What's your definition of Hell? If I say that hell is a state in which no love or happiness is present, forms of hell may already be familiar.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

How can an intelligent person believe in hell beside through indoctrination?

By realizing that "hell" is symbolic of a state/place of suffering, and yet it is nothing discrete.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Hell is a place that's spiritual and somehow has some physical form. I'll leave my body on Earth and go there in spirit form, but somehow I'll burn in hell. Burning is a process depending on physical laws found in our universe and it's the same thing for pain.

Hell can be a place in the sense that the mind projects its suffering and problems onto the world - onto what it sees. But it is completely experiential and subjective, it is spiritual. "Burning in hell" just means suffering, usually for a long time.

Originally Posted by really

Well in Heaven, nothing needs to be done, and all "doing" is revealed to be an illusion. So I'd say, the answer is "nothing." It sounds boring on its own, doesn't it?
...
By realizing that "hell" is symbolic of a state/place of suffering, and yet it is nothing discrete.

Hell can be a place in the sense that the mind projects its suffering and problems onto the world - onto what it sees. But it is completely experiential and subjective, it is spiritual. "Burning in hell" just means suffering, usually for a long time.

I try not to deal with absolutes. If heaven for some means an eternal, cloudy, happy place where you meet your dead dog and relatives, then yes it sounds boring. If heaven is something completely different, someplace where you "are" enlightened, then it really doesn't matter what it currently seems like to me, it is incomprihensible.

And about hell.
You say this, somebody else says it's a hyperdimensional fiery chasm. I don't know who I'm arguing anymore. Of course anything I say can be "refuted" by changing the definition; if there was one. Then, even for me, whatever I said doesn't make sense, so...

Originally Posted by Bonsay

I try not to deal with absolutes. If heaven for some means an eternal, cloudy, happy place where you meet your dead dog and relatives, then yes it sounds boring. If heaven is something completely different, someplace where you "are" enlightened, then it really doesn't matter what it currently seems like to me, it is incomprihensible.

That's understandable. And yes, it is incomprehensible. Because the context is ineffable, and unfamiliar to the "unenlightened." Humans don't get it, and the imagination has no way to grasp the fact. If it is boring, obviously it is not Heaven. Concepts are not literally what they represent.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

And about hell.
You say this, somebody else says it's a hyperdimensional fiery chasm. I don't know who I'm arguing anymore. Of course anything I say can be "refuted" by changing the definition; if there was one. Then, even for me, whatever I said doesn't make sense, so...

That makes sense, but it's up to you what to believe. Spiritual concepts are most likely going to involve something "from within", or within our experience and awareness of Reality. They are generally mistaken to be about the physical world (which is all humans are aware of), but it is contextual - it is subjective.

That makes sense, but it's up to you what to believe. Spiritual concepts are most likely going to involve something "from within", or within our experience and awareness of Reality. They are generally mistaken to be about the physical world (which is all humans are aware of), but it is contextual - it is subjective.

But nevertheless, you assert your personal views about the concept of hell as a fact, disagreeing with other views presented; you believe hell is symbolic, others believe it's a place of torture. Both have equal weighting (i.e. none), and expecting others to agree with your arbitrary beliefs on the matter is silly; there is absolutely no reason to think your beliefs are correct, any more than the Biblical version of hell, or any of the many other beliefs about the subject.

Personal beliefs are subjective, but facts about reality are not. Plenty of spiritual concepts are also beliefs about whether certain facts are true or not, even if those facts are not knowable.

Originally Posted by Noogah

CONGRATS! YOU WON THE STUPIDEST QUOTE OF THE YEAR AWARD!

Are you TRYING to act like an idiot!? Because your being one.

If your brain truly does not have the capacity to believe something, than YOU'RE the missing link!

Would you act this way to someone who believes in ghosts? No. You wouldn't.

So don't do it to people who believe in God. The Mayans believed in a God. ARguably the most intelligent tribe in the history of the world.

All the ranting aside...

Can you decide to believe that you are a movie star, or Hitler, or that you can fly perhaps? Apparently it's not so easy to choose to believe something. At least without adequate persuasion, but then what does it really mean to choose to believe something? Isn't anything short of a decision made at this very moment, the same as, lets say personal inquisition, brain washing? If you tell me that you could make that choice, believing that you can fly, while you were on acid, does that choice really mean something?

Think about it.

I don't know what you base your Mayan IQ test on, but one aspect doesn't really erase another one which is completely different. Anyway, their supposed intellect and beliefs in god didn't save them from the Spanish conquistadores, some of their fellow believers.

Originally Posted by Noogah

CONGRATS! YOU WON THE STUPIDEST QUOTE OF THE YEAR AWARD!

Are you TRYING to act like an idiot!? Because your being one.

If your brain truly does not have the capacity to believe something, than YOU'RE the missing link!

Would you act this way to someone who believes in ghosts? No. You wouldn't.

So don't do it to people who believe in God. The Mayans believed in a God. ARguably the most intelligent tribe in the history of the world.

What irony. I said the brain does not have the capacity to believe something?????????? Uh, nope. I said I can't choose Hell if I don't believe it exists. Now counter it. Are you a troll or just a complete imbecile?

Originally Posted by really

Don't ask "why," because it is part of nature. It is neither good nor bad.

It's bad for the people who experience it. Also, notice the word "worldwide". I was talking about the flood Noah dealt with. That is supposed to have been a deliberate act of God.

Originally Posted by really

What's your definition of Hell? If I say that hell is a state in which no love or happiness is present, forms of hell may already be familiar.

It's that place where Satan supposedly lives and people are supposedly tortured forever.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

But nevertheless, you assert your personal views about the concept of hell as a fact, disagreeing with other views presented; you believe hell is symbolic, others believe it's a place of torture.

If you understood what I meant, you'd see that I'm in agreement. It is about how the mind brings suffering, and so all suffering is considered.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Personal beliefs are subjective, but facts about reality are not. Plenty of spiritual concepts are also beliefs about whether certain facts are true or not, even if those facts are not knowable.

Generally, spiritual beliefs are those that dissolve other beliefs. Because the core and purpose of it all is beyond all beliefs and belief systems.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It's bad for the people who experience it. Also, notice the word "worldwide". I was talking about the flood Noah dealt with. That is supposed to have been a deliberate act of God.

Flooding is an act of God, but there's no reason to blame God. The blame originates from narcissism and choosing other than God. If it is "bad" it is because it is not desired, but you can see it as part of nature - that which you are part of.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It's that place where Satan supposedly lives and people are supposedly tortured forever.

Ok, so to answer your question, there's probably little chance that you will "go to hell," and it's easy to see why that's unbelievable. I don't disregard hell altogether, but see it as a symbol.

The flood is supposed to have been a deliberate act of God.

If you understood what I meant, you'd see that I'm in agreement. It is about how the mind brings suffering, and so all suffering is considered.

That might be your interpretation, but it's very obvious that it deviates from what is stated. The Christian hell is not used as a symbol for the mind creating suffering. It's uses as a means to scare people in to following a set of rules, and is presented as a real place.

The fear some have of the concept of hell is a good symbol for the suffering that can be created by beliefs, I would agree, but it's nothing to do with how true or false those beliefs are. It's merely a good example that illustrates the power beliefs with no evidence can have over some.
But then, why not say that instead?

Going back to your original answer:

How can an intelligent person believe in hell beside through indoctrination?

By realizing that "hell" is symbolic of a state/place of suffering, and yet it is nothing discrete.

This also does not follow in the slightest. How does an intelligent person literally believe in a place of eternal torture? By believing it's a symbol of suffering? It doesn't make any sense.

Because the core and purpose of it all is beyond all beliefs and belief systems.

Well then it's basically a means for people to delude themselves in to holding beliefs they like, by placing them out of reach of anything else.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

That might be your interpretation, but it's very obvious that it deviates from what is stated. The Christian hell is not used as a symbol for the mind creating suffering. It's uses as a means to scare people in to following a set of rules, and is presented as a real place.

I could also argue that this ^ is your interpretation. I am being realistic here. There's no geographic "place" for hell to exist. It is easily a symbol, and many teachers would agree. If you are talking about "the Christian hell," ok. But I'm saying how it is true, as reflected elsewhere in the world and life.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

The fear some have of the concept of hell is a good symbol for the suffering that can be created by beliefs, I would agree, but it's nothing to do with how true or false those beliefs are. It's merely a good example that illustrates the power beliefs with no evidence can have over some.
But then, why not say that instead?

What - that hell is formed by false belief? Well in a way I have said that already: The ego/mind brings suffering.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

This also does not follow in the slightest. How does an intelligent person literally believe in a place of eternal torture? By believing it's a symbol of suffering? It doesn't make any sense.

You can be intelligent but that doesn't mean you know everything. Hell is a symbol of suffering and the rejection of God, or Love. Why is that hard to understand? It is torturing without love or happiness, in a very extreme state. I don't have to be burning in a fiery chasm to know that, and whether one exists or not is irrelevant and doesn't change anything.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Well then it's basically a means for people to delude themselves in to holding beliefs they like, by placing them out of reach of anything else.

Actually, you'd be very surprised. Real devotion is about disillusionment and commitment to what is True, and the sacrifice of what is not. It is about surrendering judgment. Who wants to give up the drama of life - the drama of "MY" life? Who wants to die for God? It is definitely not about random fantasies. (By the way I don't want to go off-topic).

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The flood is supposed to have been a deliberate act of God.

Hellooo? I've addressed that already! What's your point? Everything is deliberately under God, otherwise He could influence things by accident. You're not following the Bible word-for-word, are you? It is not reliable.

Originally Posted by really

Hellooo? I've addressed that already! What's your point? Everything is deliberately under God, otherwise He could influence things by accident. You're not following the Bible word-for-word, are you? It is not reliable.

You first said the flood was just part of nature. Now you say it was a deliberate act of God. Which is it? If it was a deliberate act of God, then answer the original question. How could he do that if he is compassionate and merciful?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You first said the flood was just part of nature. Now you say it was a deliberate act of God. Which is it? If it was a deliberate act of God, then answer the original question. How could he do that if he is compassionate and merciful?

They are all the same. Too simple for you?

Originally Posted by really

They are all the same. Too simple for you?

Then what was the relevance of it being part of nature? You said that as if it was some kind of justification. Now answer the original question. Why did God flood the world if he is compassionate and merciful?

Stop playing dodgeball.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Then what was the relevance of it being part of nature? You said that as if it was some kind of justification. Now answer the original question.

The relevance is, God Created and is one with all "Nature." How can God condemn when there's nothing but Him?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Why did God flood the world if he is compassionate and merciful?

There's no relationship! Why'd the man wear a raincoat if your sister's friend likes The Teletubbies?

Like I said, it is part of nature, part of God, and deliberate. There is nothing wrong; God has not condemned human kind by letting nature play out. The blame and fear is a projection.

There's no relationship??????? Then what in the shit does it mean that he is compassionate and merciful, considering the fact that supposedly he DELIBERATELY created the greatest tragedy in world history? Tell me how those words apply to God in light of that.