your favorite people that used to post in R/S that no longer do?

[Lucid_boy]

I'm not sure if this is supposed to go here or in the Lounge, but it specifically about R/S. Who are the people that used to post here, that no longer do, that you would like to see start posting agian? I would have to say TheGnome, although at the time he was active we were on the opposite side of the fence, he taught me alot about evolution and was willing to answer questions. Someone once said that he could "eat religious text and shit scientific fact."

[IrisRavenstar]

I haven't been here in the religious discussion area long enough to have favorite people who used to post here, but no longer do, though I'm not at all surprised to hear there are such people. I have been here long enough to wonder why, given that religion is banned from every other area, the scientist types and philosophers are pretty well allowed free reign here in the religious discussion area despite the fact that they are squelching religious discussions, when there's an area for science, and an area for philosophy, where, again, religion is not allowed to be discussed. Are these boards like totally anti-religion? I mean, because dreams are a part of probably every religion! It's a bit unrealistic to expect not to have people come along who have an interest in religion, really. And ignoring people squelches their input as much as bashing them... just thought I'd note. Shrug. "Philosophy's a walk on a slippery rock, Religion is a smile on a dog." -- Edie Brickell

[Xei]

Remember that time Jesus made some posts working through the holy spirit? That was pretty cool, I remember all the atheists were like, shit. Oh and then Allah suddenly started posting and him and Jesus had a massive flaming session, that was awesome.

[slash112]

I have been here long enough to wonder why, given that religion is banned from every other area, the scientist types and philosophers are pretty well allowed free reign here in the religious discussion area despite the fact that they are squelching religious discussions, when there's an area for science, and an area for philosophy, where, again, religion is not allowed to be discussed. l well, most of the things discussed are things which assume science is true. and also that science has something to back it up, like a bit of evidence. but the point is that when we talk about things, we talk about things which are accepted scientifically. so there is no need for religion to be brought into it. are there any particular things you are talking about, because there may be some things that should allow it.

[Xei]

which assume science is true Er... define science for me. :l

[IrisRavenstar]

well, most of the things discussed are things which assume science is true. and also that science has something to back it up, like a bit of evidence. but the point is that when we talk about things, we talk about things which are accepted scientifically. so there is no need for religion to be brought into it. are there any particular things you are talking about, because there may be some things that should allow it. So, those of us who would like to talk about religion, in the section of the boards that is assigned for the topic of RELIGION AND SPIRITUALITY have no need to bring up religion? Do you even know where you're posting? My question is why are you allowed to stifle discussion about religion in the proper area for religious discussion? My particular science was always mathematics. I was in special advanced algebra classes in high school (I graduated in 1964), was one of three winners of a statewide math contest my senior year (all three of us were in my school, and my class... our program was unusual), and when I returned to college in my thirties and took placement testing, I placed straight into calculus, and got A's in it. I know mathematics, or did at the time (it's a tad rusty, though I can still figure out if bed risers, which are round, are going to fit my rectangular bedposts or not... lol!). I'm getting better by far at biology thanks to my dreams, and my inner guides helping me learn about healing, but frankly, chemistry (other than cooking) is not my cup of tea, and I don't believe in physics as anything but a house of cards that gonna collapse one of these years, since it's all theoretical! Like God for some people, I guess. See, I have all the proof I need in that my inner guidance for healing actually works far better than anything the doctors do. Funny, ain't it? Religion relates to dreams, you see, for many of us, and maybe we'd like a space to actually discuss that instead of having to read through all the repetitious bashing that goes on here! There are a gazillion threads saying the same thing about creation vs. evolution. Not only do the threads say the same thing, but it's being said by the same people most of the time. Why make everyone wade through all that? I thought, when I signed on here, that they had included this space for that purpose, but it's just stupid here. Really! Ignorance apparently wins... or does it? What do you win by acting this way? Do you get smarter? Do you learn anything new? Do you feel better about yourself? What do you win?

[Xei]

I don't believe in physics as anything but a house of cards that gonna collapse one of these years, since it's all theoretical! Hahaha wot? You think Newton's laws of motion are theoretical..?

[Snowy Egypt]

Ooooh, this should be good. To actually contribute, his name is Neuro. How I miss him so...

[IrisRavenstar]

Hahaha wot? You think Newton's laws of motion are theoretical..? Would you like to explain to me what Newton's laws of motion have to do with religion and spirituality? I'm not invading the science area with religion and spirituality. Why can't you allow people here the same respect?

[DrunkenArse]

So, those of us who would like to talk about religion, in the section of the boards that is assigned for the topic of RELIGION AND SPIRITUALITY have no need to bring up religion? Do you even know where you're posting? My question is why are you allowed to stifle discussion about religion in the proper area for religious discussion? Who's stifling discussion? I'm certainly not. It's just that ignorance is ignorance where ever it should happen to rear it's ugly head. There may be children reading this board you know? Should they honestly be exposed to some creep saying that if they just refuse to accept the fact that they are animals and evolved from other primates, than they will get eternal salvation and not have someone come on and stomp all over that idea? Of course they shouldn't. This is 2009. We have science to combat ignorance. This is the one of the goals of the good religions as well. Think of me as an ally. Ignorance is sad and willful ignorance is reprehensible. My particular science was always mathematics. I was in special advanced algebra classes in high school (I graduated in 1964), was one of three winners of a statewide math contest my senior year (all three of us were in my school, and my class... our program was unusual), and when I returned to college in my thirties and took placement testing, I placed straight into calculus, and got A's in it. I know mathematics, or did at the time (it's a tad rusty, though I can still figure out if bed risers, which are round, are going to fit my rectangular bedposts or not... lol!). I love math. I have that same problem with practical geometry though. A lot of people that are really good at math do believe it or not. And I'm terrible at arithmetic. I'm getting better by far at biology thanks to my dreams, and my inner guides helping me learn about healing, but frankly, chemistry (other than cooking) is not my cup of tea, and I don't believe in physics as anything but a house of cards that gonna collapse one of these years, since it's all theoretical! Like God for some people, I guess. Well, let's not paint with so broad a brush. Newtonian stuff is solid where it is applicable. Maxwell is looking pretty good as well. General Relativity and Quantum Field Theory are both looking like they're gonna need some corrections around the edges though. Saying that it's all theoretical is pretty ignorant of actual facts. See, I have all the proof I need in that my inner guidance for healing actually works far better than anything the doctors do. Funny, ain't it? I'm all about self healing. I pretty much fix everything for myself. I had an ingrown toenail when I was a kid and I fixed it myself. I soaked it in hot water until I could squeeze the puss out (hurt like hell) and than cut it out. I packed it with cayanne pepper soaked in tea tree oil. My mom found out and dragged me into a doctor and even they said that I'd done the job. It is important to understand how this stuff works though. Some doctors have a lot of very smart things to say but they are still in a stage where they are changing their minds every ten years or so. At least thats what it seems like to me. I call it proto-science. But now that they are starting to consider it from an evolutionary perspective, keep an eye out for it to approach the level of an actual science. That's how science works. Competing theories converge to what is correct. Religion relates to dreams, you see, for many of us, and maybe we'd like a space to actually discuss that instead of having to read through all the repetitious bashing that goes on here! What religions are you talking about? That is a highly non-standard interpretation of pretty much every religion that I'm aware of. There are a gazillion threads saying the same thing about creation vs. evolution. Not only do the threads say the same thing, but it's being said by the same people most of the time. Why make everyone wade through all that? The problem is that the same people keep saying that evolution isn't true. It's reprehensible really. If the creationist scum would just open their minds or slither back under the rocks they came out of, there really wouldn't be an issue. I personally consider myself to be a spiritual person. I like considering issues of how karma manifests itself through mechanistic causes in the world (the amygdala is huge! study it) for example. It's just that by the time I'm done ridiculing them, as they surely deserve, I don't have any time to start a thread on it. Can you believe that some people would actually spew that filth in public? They should at least have enough of a sense of decency to not lie in public. Shit like that really belongs in Beyond Dreaming if you ask me. I thought, when I signed on here, that they had included this space for that purpose, but it's just stupid here. Really! Agreed one hundred percent. Ignorance apparently wins... or does it? Not if I have anything to do with it.

[Xei]

Would you like to explain to me what Newton's laws of motion have to do with religion and spirituality? I'm not invading the science area with religion and spirituality. Why can't you allow people here the same respect? Umm... would you like to explain to me what physics in general has to do with religion and spirituality? I responded to a point you made. Please stop crying about 'invading people's respect', I'm just asking a bloody question. That really shouldn't scare you so much.

[IrisRavenstar]

I love math. I have that same problem with practical geometry though. A lot of people that are really good at math do believe it or not. And I'm terrible at arithmetic. Perhaps in your haste to respond, you misread me? I said that I *CAN* still figure out whether my bedposts, which are rectangular, will fit into the bedrisers I'm contemplating buying. They can't, btw, it's too bad they aren't square, because then they would have worked. I can also do a lot of other practical mathematics, including arithmetic, and without a calucuator even! Imagine that! I just happened to find mathematics so easy that it bored me to tears, even calculus, and with no interest in physics, there wasn't a lot to do with it, unless I wanted to bore myself further by being an accountant. The math background does enable me to think quite logically though. I was majoring in Occupational Therapy and minoring in Psychology when I took the Calculus classes, to complete math requirements. You know how colleges like to give us a well-rounded start! Before we can get to the good stuff in our majors. Well, let's not paint with so broad a brush. Newtonian stuff is solid where it is applicable. Maxwell is looking pretty good as well. General Relativity and Quantum Field Theory are both looking like they're gonna need some corrections around the edges though. Saying that it's all theoretical is pretty ignorant of actual facts. My impressions are to some extent intuitive, and always shall be. My feminine intuitive side is almost as strong now as my masculine intellectual side. I've seen too much, you see, that can't be explained away so easily by your physics. In any case, I still don't see the relevance to religion and spirituality, which is the topic for this area! I'm all about self healing. I pretty much fix everything for myself. I had an ingrown toenail when I was a kid and I fixed it myself. I soaked it in hot water until I could squeeze the puss out (hurt like hell) and than cut it out. I packed it with cayanne pepper soaked in tea tree oil. My mom found out and dragged me into a doctor and even they said that I'd done the job. It is important to understand how this stuff works though. Some doctors have a lot of very smart things to say but they are still in a stage where they are changing their minds every ten years or so. At least thats what it seems like to me. I call it proto-science. But now that they are starting to consider it from an evolutionary perspective, keep an eye out for it to approach the level of an actual science. That's how science works. Competing theories converge to what is correct. Yes, tea tree oil is wonderful for ingrown toenails, though I don't see the need for cayenne pepper or cutting it out. I get ingrown toenails on one big toe all the time. I just need to remember to not cut it so short, or when I do, to run a fingernail under the edge a couple of times a day, really. But that's not what I meant. My guides didn't even need to tell me that! Like, okay, I'll tell you about my bleeding ulcer and iron deficiency anemia, how's that? The first doctor I went to diagnosed it as acid reflux disease, and gave me Prilosec. I came home, took the Prilosec, which did nothing at all to help whatsoever, then had a dream of the exact color of the pills with the word "POISON" pasted over the top. I flushed the Prilosec down the toilet, went to another doctor. This one said I had an iron deficiency, and gave me iron pills, and wanted to do all sorts of tests, saying I had internal bleeding, and probably had cancer. I went home, prayed about what to do, and was given a lucid dream from Spirit that showed me the lining of my stomach and all these little ulcers in the lining. A voice explained that I had bleeding ulcers from overuse of N-Saids, which another doctor had prescribed following a car accident, and that I should not take the N-Saids anymore at all, and did not need further tests, that I would be guided in healing the ulcers. And I was! Step by step. I was told when to reduce the iron back to a normal daily level, as too much iron is even worse than not enough, as it can become toxic. I was given herbs to use for acid control, and guided into a vegetarian diet, one step at a time, by numerous dreams and visions. I can also hear my guides during the day while awake. I was monitored and guided every step of the way to heal these ulcers and the anemia via nutritional and herbal healing over the course of two and a half years. I no longer have ulcers or anemia at all. That's a bit more than an ingrown toenail, right? I have either healed or been given help controlling the symptoms for other things (arthritis, fibromyalgia) as well, and I rarely get so much as a cold. All of my medical care at present, and for some years now, comes from dreams and inner guidance. But it does *not* simply come from *me!* I am not idiotic enough to think it does. There is an abundance of inner guidance available to us, but science probably isn't going to take you there. Psience might though. What religions are you talking about? That is a highly non-standard interpretation of pretty much every religion that I'm aware of. What do you think religious prophecy is based on, if not dreams? Dreams are important to all religions, and much of what they teach originally came from dreams. I think is pretty standard in most dream areas I've been in. There are usually a lot of people there with varying religious interests. Christians, Gnostic Christians, Buddhists, Wiccans, Hindus, etc. They all like dreams! Dreams are one way to connect with the Divine, and probably the easiest way for most people to start doing so. The problem is that the same people keep saying that evolution isn't true. It's reprehensible really. If the creationist scum would just open their minds or slither back under the rocks they came out of, there really wouldn't be an issue. I personally consider myself to be a spiritual person. I like considering issues of how karma manifests itself through mechanistic causes in the world (the amygdala is huge! study it) for example. It's just that by the time I'm done ridiculing them, as they surely deserve, I don't have any time to start a thread on it. Can you believe that some people would actually spew that filth in public? They should at least have enough of a sense of decency to not lie in public. Shit like that really belongs in Beyond Dreaming if you ask me. Well, I'm not an either/or person too often. Generally, I find the truth is probably a mixture of both extreme positions in such an argument. I don't find creationism and evolution mutually exclusive. People simply choose to try to make them so. I've yet to find any particular reason to study my amygdala, huge though it may be. Karma is easily observed in action if one is attentive to the world around them. I think I've posted on that here before, actually. And personally, I like the Beyond Dreaming area, as I have as many waking experiences with the Divine as I do sleeping ones nowadays. And they're always either fun or enlightening. As I've also said before, they can be a bit hard to transfer to others, especially others who don't know a person well enough to trust their word about something. I get that. But it's no excuse for bashing people who are simply trying to share either. And there's too much of that going on here to have reasonable discussions.

[IrisRavenstar]

I responded to a point you made. Please stop crying about 'invading people's respect', I'm just asking a bloody question. That really shouldn't scare you so much. SCARE me? LOL! Honey, you're as irritating as a mosquito, but you don't qualify as scary. Well, unless you're carrying West Nile Virus, of course, but then I know what herbal teas to drink and what essential oils to use to keep mosquitoes from wanting to bite me, you see? I hardly think that expecting people to learn some respect for the people around them is unreasonable, do you? It might just make the world a tad better place. At risk of being a broken record, this area is supposed to be for Religion and Spirituality! But it's not really possible to discuss that here, and I think that you are all the poorer for it, because you're stuck in your little rut, probably just using the gift of lucid dreaming as an amusement park ride, and nothing more. Too bad! Because there is a great deal more to lucid dreams and all variety of dreams than you will be aware of until you learn to listen and respect others.

[DrunkenArse]

Perhaps in your haste to respond, you misread me? I said that I *CAN* still figure out whether my bedposts, No I read it carefully actually. I'm just dyslexic or something and confuse words sometimes. If it doesn't make sense I have to go back and re-read it but it made sense that one would have trouble figuring out if a rectangle fits into a circle. The trick is in gauging if the diagonal of the rectangle is less than the diameter of the circle. I just happened to find mathematics so easy that it bored me to tears, even calculus, and with no interest in physics, there wasn't a lot to do with it, unless I wanted to bore myself further by being an accountant. Not so! Math has a huge role to play in evolutionary biology for instance! Also, math for it's own sake is very rewarding. Calculus isn't so logically demanding but once you get to real math where you actually prove stuff, it's very engaging. Try some differential geometry. I had a dream a few nights ago where dirac was had a 3D black board and was explaining to me symmetries on field gauges. Pretty heady stuff. My impressions are to some extent intuitive, and always shall be. My feminine intuitive side is almost as strong now as my masculine intellectual side. I've seen too much, you see, that can't be explained away so easily by your physics. In any case, I still don't see the relevance to religion and spirituality, which is the topic for this area! Don't be so hard on yourself! I'd say your "feminine" intuitive side is much stronger! And why do you say explained "away"? The goal of science is to explain, not explain away. If you've seen it and science can't explain it, than maybe it will be able to one day! I'm sorry you had bad science teachers. There are a lot of them. Science is a verb though, not a noun. It's a shame that so many of them try to treat it like the latter. Yes, tea tree oil is wonderful for ingrown toenails, though I don't see the need for cayenne pepper or cutting it out. This one was really messed up. It was growing off to the side in a really weird way. I've dealt with lots of them as well. The cyanne pepper is good because it can hold the tea trea oil, is antiseptic itself and can soak up new puss that forms so you can clean it out easily. Well, I'm not an either/or person too often. Generally, I find the truth is probably a mixture of both extreme positions in such an argument. I don't find creationism and evolution mutually exclusive. People simply choose to try to make them so. I think that the law of the excluded middle applies here. Either speciation occurred as a result of natural selection and god had nothing to do with it (other than setting the whole thing up if god exists) or it didn't. People that believe that latter are fundamentalists and shouldn't be afforded the privilege of engaging in public discourse. They spread lies and ignorance. They refuse to listen to reason or face evidence. There is no debating with them as they lack the prerequisites to change their mind about something. Pretty much the only thing to do with them is to ridicule and marginalize them.

[Xei]

wtfock are you even talking about... you told me off for 'disrespecting beliefs' because I talked about science in the religion forum... and you were the one who brought it up in the first place! Please try to apply basic logic and rational thinking before posting.

[♥Mark]

I have been here long enough to wonder why, given that religion is banned from every other area, the scientist types and philosophers are pretty well allowed free reign here in the religious discussion area despite the fact that they are squelching religious discussions, when there's an area for science, and an area for philosophy, where, again, religion is not allowed to be discussed. Are these boards like totally anti-religion? I mean, because dreams are a part of probably every religion! It's a bit unrealistic to expect not to have people come along who have an interest in religion, really. And ignoring people squelches their input as much as bashing them... just thought I'd note. Shrug. Grow up. Read a little closer, maybe. Arguing against religion is having a religious discussion. Certainly I think we can agree that happens often enough. Religion is "banned" from other areas of the site because other areas deal with other topics. If not for being off topic there, then it's often because religion is a touchy subject and often results in intense arguments. All religious discussion is confined here to keep the other areas of the site clean of the inevitable arguments. No one is squelching your ability to have a discussion about religion. That is why the religion and spirituality board exist in the first place. Dreamviews is not anti-religion. The are no rules which discriminate against member's religious affiliations, beliefs, etc. In fact the only rule about religion at all is that making religious commentary of any kind (READ: pro-religious, anti-religious or even neutral comments about religion) are to be kept in the religion and spirituality section (READ: it is not inherently against the rules to have religious discussions, only that they must be kept in the proper section.) I'm not sure if your hissy fit here results from poor reading comprehension or if it's just because you're mad at all the mean atheists but whatever the case you're out of line. If you've got some problem with the anti-religious comments specific members have made here, you should address them. If you have no valid or sensible response you might consider conceding the point or even just saying nothing at all. Hey, if you really want, go ahead and keep those beliefs locked tight in your hard head. Plug your ears and hum really loudly and maybe you won't be able to hear what they're saying. I don't really care, but whatever you do, don't make some stupid rant about how you're being oppressed. You aren't. Not here, at least, and certainly not in the way you say. If you want your points to be taken seriously as these "scientist types and philosophers" you talk about, try to make some intelligent insights. If your beliefs are founded on reason, you shouldn't have too much trouble defending them on their merits to other reasonable people. If you think that your beliefs are exempt from criticism or are afraid to defend them, consider stating in your topic that you don't want to argue your points. Or perhaps consider not posting at all since there probably isn't much room for discussion anyway.

[Xei]

+1

[IrisRavenstar]

So, I see, you just totally dissed everything I said about healing. You totally dissed everything I've said about my own beliefs, and yet, curiously, you think I am going to what... laugh at your jokes because you say I'm more feminine intuitive than I think I am? Or that you say I shouldn't be so hard on myself when I wasn't doing any such thing? I know I'm very intuitive, actually, compared to most people, but I also know there's always a lot more to learn. But I don't think you believe it at all. Well, you know, it's also struck me that another odd thing here is that normally religious and spiritual groups are made up of far more women than men, even at churches, but I assume that the apparent mysogyny around here has chased them all off. If you want to live with only half a brain, that's your choice, but it is not mine! I'm working to balance the two sides and allow both an equal part in my being. It is a mentally healthy thing to do. And yes, a square or rectangular peg can in fact fit into a round hole as long as the diagonal of the square or rectangle is slightly less than the diameter of the circle. It's good to know these things, and actually remember the needed formulae, if only to prevent wasting money on ordering bed risers that won't fit. I'm not interested in evolutionary biology much either, and as I said, I've only gotten more knowledgeable about biology at all since meeting my inner guides and having them work with me on learning nutritional and herbal healing. That does require paying some attention to biology. I learn some from nature gardening as well, due to a concern for the enviroment. But I'm not interested in being a scientist or a mathematician. I just could be if I did want to, you see? My preferred left brain skills are language related, really. I love reading and writing, and took three foreign languages in high school. I'm not as good at those as I am at math, but then if I were, I wouldn't probably need to be working on them this lifetime. The math, I've got down, and don't want to do more with it during this lifetime. I would need a powerful reason, you see, and don't have one. If the goal of science is to explain, and not explain away, then one would think that perhaps the scientist first has to be open-minded enough to consider that someone is telling the truth about their experiences, and then willing to listen fully. I don't see that here. I just see people dissing each other and putting down anything that doesn't fit their narrow left-brained interpretation of reality. As for your toenail, the idea is not to let it get bad in the first place, which is why if mine starts to get ingrown, I just have to remember to run my fingernail around the corner that's growing in a couple of times a day to keep it loosened up. Then it will grow out normally, no serious problem. I use the tea tree only if it hurts. I've never had one that had pus or needed to be cut out. Much of herbal medicine is about prevention. It saves a lot of trouble down the line, really. I'm not a Fundamentalist, and I believe God/dess interacts with me daily, guiding my life, and loving me. I believe I, and all of us, are here for a purpose, for learning and growing into full spiritual beings. I don't believe it becasue it's in a book. I believe it because I do OBSERVE and record my observations. I believe it because I EXPERIENCE it. So there goes your argument that only a Fundamentalist would believe it. I'm at the far liberal end of the Christian spectrum. I can debate with Fundamentalists just fine though, because I also know the Bible pretty darned well, and own a concordance, and of course, there are searchable Bibles on the internet. No one should be excluded from engaging in public discourse unless they're being horribly abusive or disruptive, though of course, you have the right to filter anyone whom you personally dislike, which this program allows you to do. That's your prerogative, isn't it? But bashing them into silence really is not right, and as someone who likes talking to all manner of people, I object to you, and others here, doing that! I would like to be able to talk, in the space provided for religion and spirituality, about RELIGION AND SPIRITUALITY. Not science. Now, I'm going to head off to relax with my dog and get to bed. Maybe by tomorrow I'll decide whether to continue in this area or not. It's feeling rather pointless, since anything I say that I think has value is just ignored. Your loss! Goodnight!

[DrunkenArse]

So, I see, you just totally dissed everything I said about healing. I didn't. I have no opinion on it other than it's possible and there are lot's of anecdotal stories like that. Some of the people telling them are loonies but some of them are rational and I do believe that something is going on between consciousness and the 'physical' world as I have said elsewhere. I also believe that it has something to to with wave function collapse. EDIT: It isn't too far out on the fringe that consciousness is required for a wave function to collapse. It's a minority view in quantum physics but some serious physicists have subscribed to it. You totally dissed everything I've said about my own beliefs, and yet, curiously, you think I am going to what... laugh at your jokes because you say I'm more feminine intuitive than I think I am? I'm glad you got the joke. Or that you say I shouldn't be so hard on myself when I wasn't doing any such thing? I know I'm very intuitive, actually, compared to most people, but I also know there's always a lot more to learn. But I don't think you believe it at all. No. I do believe in the power of intuition. I have no way to prove it, I understand the arguments against it and I still believe. Well, you know, it's also struck me that another odd thing here is that normally religious and spiritual groups are made up of far more women than men, even at churches, but I assume that the apparent mysogyny around here has chased them all off. If you want to live with only half a brain, that's your choice, but it is not mine! I'm working to balance the two sides and allow both an equal part in my being. It is a mentally healthy thing to do. What mysogyny? You're the one that said that intuition is a woman thing and logic is a man thing; not me. Saying that physics is a house of cards does not indicate that you want to balance both sides of the brain. It indicates that you want to ignore things that you don't like. That's close minded. If the goal of science is to explain, and not explain away, then one would think that perhaps the scientist first has to be open-minded enough to consider that someone is telling the truth about their experiences, and then willing to listen fully. I don't see that here. I just see people dissing each other and putting down anything that doesn't fit their narrow left-brained interpretation of reality. It's that the things that you are talking about can't be measured, hence can't be turned into math and hence can't be incorporated into physics. Maybe you should look at yourself for an example of being close minded though. As for your toenail, the idea is not to let it get bad in the first place, which is why if mine starts to get ingrown, I just have to remember to run my fingernail around the corner that's growing in a couple of times a day to keep it loosened up. I was ten years old. I'm not a Fundamentalist, and I believe God/dess interacts with me daily, guiding my life, and loving me. I believe I, and all of us, are here for a purpose, for learning and growing into full spiritual beings. I don't believe it becasue it's in a book. I believe it because I do OBSERVE and record my observations. I believe it because I EXPERIENCE it. So there goes your argument that only a Fundamentalist would believe it. I said that in reference to evolution. If you believe in creationism or intelligent design, you're a fundamentalist. You do seem to be on the liberal end of things but most fundamentalists are not. I would like to be able to talk, in the space provided for religion and spirituality, about RELIGION AND SPIRITUALITY. Not science. Believe it or not, when I want to talk about science, I go to the science forum. But when I see people talking about science here, as they often do, I join the discussion. Don't talk about creationism (which is nothing other than religion intruding on science) and I won't talk about science. Now, I'm going to head off to relax with my dog and get to bed. Maybe by tomorrow I'll decide whether to continue in this area or not. It's feeling rather pointless, since anything I say that I think has value is just ignored. Your loss! Goodnight! Goodnight.

[IrisRavenstar]

Grow up. I'm not sure if your hissy fit here results from poor reading comprehension Right back atcha! As I said, off to bed... goodnight!

[Noogah]

Okay people. Time for my noo-cent(Lol. A new-noogah pun!) I believe that on a technical scale, a lot of thought to be obvious science is theoretical. WAIT! DON'T SHOOT! Allow me to explain. Obviously, everything that happens, happens. It's the explanations of it that are often theoretical. First off, obviously there are many basic scientific principles that aren't theoretical. For example. A hammer hits a nail, and the nail digs deeper into the wood. Thus, we may logically conclude that force is transferred between the two objects. But there is many generally accepted science that is theoretical. For example. What is the binding force of atoms? What keeps neutrons spinning around the nucleus? What keeps the atom in place? Well, this is something we can't prove. Granted, we can make theories. In fact, very good theories at that! But as far as complex science goes, we can only make really good estimates, but that does not make it factual. Sooner or later this would come up anyway, so here goes. I think that even trying to prove the origins of the earth by means of science, and nature alone are futile until we develop some kind of chronoscope, or delve deeper into our galaxy for details. The estimated time that the earth (and universe) has existed is twelve billion years.(Last I checked. They change it all the time) I'm sorry, but for me, that's just to far back to even be within the grasp of reasonable accuracy within a theory. The possibilities of how earth could theoretically come to be are endless if you are an atheist. Of course, creationists don't have that problem. In the end, it always depends on how you define scientific fact. As for people I miss in this section, I'm just becoming a regular here. I haven't around long enough, and even if I did, I'm not sure if I would notice.

[IrisRavenstar]

Uh-huh... wave function collapse gave me detailed advice on healing a bleeding ulcer and iron deficiency anemia, and it worked! The mysogyny of patting the little woman on the head for being intuitive, and not thinking like a scientist every waking moment. Life is full, and we all have to make choices about where to put our attention. I am not close-minded. I am not a Fundamentalist. If you wanted me to take into account that you were ten years old, you could have offered that information in the first place. I believe in creation because I observe it all around me. Not because the Bible tells me so! Open your EYES! Every religion has creation stories or myths of some kind. Most are metaphorical, not scientific. That is not an excuse for coming in here and bashing people. I've really given this enough energy. I probably won't be back in this area. I'm not really into wasting time and energy on meaningless nonsense that repeats over and over. As I said... it's your loss. Because I know I have a lot to offer that anyone who is really interested in dreams should want to share in. But hey, your choice. No one wants to stay on topic, fine. But you won't get to have me staying here. Again, goodnight, and hopefully I won't find something else to respond to when I send this.

[Noogah]

Thats very true. Thanks for that! Just goes to show that we don't blindly follow creationism because we are stupid puppets. We see it, and beleive it is evident.

[Universal Mind]

Awaken4e1 is the preacher (so he said) who stirred up so much religious debate in the Philosophy forum that this forum was created. He was a total riot. I wish he would come back. I also miss Bigmo, the dodgeball playing Muslim. He was hilarious. PJ, a former admin, was convinced Bigmo was a Muslim message spambot. He might might have been. Jeremysr was another funny dodgeball player who would actually respond once in a while and say stuff that could puncture lungs. I tried to get him to take the intelligent design argument as far as it can go, and we got to the usual intelligent design point where there is the issue of why that which is outside of time and space has to be an intelligent mind and not just laws of science since since supporters of the argument say God does not require an intelligent designer (in which case it is possible for something great to exist without an intelligent designer). Jeremysr's response was something like, "One time I mowed a yard and was really thirsty. I prayed for something to drink, and my mother drove up with some lemonade." That is one of my favorite posts in the history of this forum. He was a good guy, though. Neruo was an atheist who was really entertaining. I wish all of those people would be here at the same time.

[CoLd BlooDed]

Remember BD? What an idiot.