Thread: Homosexuality

Originally Posted by davej

Even though I don't approve of it, I still believe that homosexuals should be treated equally. No one has a right to tell you how to live your life. Religious or not religious. Everyone has a right to a fair shot at life and laws against homosexuality are wrong. I know this may sound confusing but i guess you could say that I am see them as a person and not as their lifestyle if that makes sense.

So you support homosexual marriages?

I do, civil unions only ofcourse.

Originally Posted by mowglycdb

I do, civil unions only ofcourse.

I think this is perfectly fair. While the church should never ever be allowed to make laws or interfere with the state, the reverse is also true - the state should not interfere in stuff the church invents, so long as it doesn't cause harm to people.

Originally Posted by mowglycdb

I do, civil unions only ofcourse.

Why?

Originally Posted by davej

I'm glad you know me sssoooo well Sandform... And sense you obviously know me sssoooo well, please tell me, when in my life as a Christian have i discarded it? What parts of my religion have I discarded? How did I discard those parts of my religion?

Well I assume you are a human being and are not a horrible evil bastard...so I would assume that if you heard a someone say to their mother or father "fuck you," you wouldn't think it appropriate to put the person to death. Leviticus 20:9) And that is only one of the despicable things that I hope you discard as nonsense.

If you're not a sociopathic putrid excuse for a human being you have to ignore most of the bible says is "just."

You probably don't think the penalty for adultery should be death, or that when a girl is raped her rapist should be able to buy her hand in marriage from her father with some silver coins either.

Originally Posted by Replicon

I think this is perfectly fair. While the church should never ever be allowed to make laws or interfere with the state, the reverse is also true - the state should not interfere in stuff the church invents, so long as it doesn't cause harm to people.

Marriage was not the invention of Christianity or the Church. Btw, atheists get married all the time. Obviously religion is not relevant to marriage. If you want to make it so that gay people can only get Civil Unions then fine, but civil unions are what straight people get too. Cause guess what, if a gay person wants to they can find a priest to get them spiritually married. They aren't being held back in any means but legally.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Well I assume you are a human being and are not a horrible evil bastard...so I would assume that if you heard a someone say to their mother or father "fuck you," you wouldn't think it appropriate to put the person to death. Leviticus 20:9) And that is only one of the despicable things that I hope you discard as nonsense.

Old Testament = Old Covenant
New Testament = New Covenant

It's one of the simplest things about Christianity to understand. Why don't you get it?

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Old Testament = Old Covenant
New Testament = New Covenant

It's one of the simplest things about Christianity to understand. Why don't you get it?

Restricting all of what God said to only the New Testament is only one of the greatest cherry picking examples in the first place. The fact that this isn't even what they do (Guess which testament the ten commandments are from) makes it all the more hilarious since the entire point is that religious people are picking and choosing what parts of God's word they feel like following.

You know, when Jesus showed up, he didn't say that the practices of the old law were wrong, in fact he said he didn't come to change the law at all.

17"Do not think that I came to abolish the (V)Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

18"For truly I say to you, (W)until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least (X)in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Restricting all of what God said to only the New Testament is only one of the greatest cherry picking examples in the first place.

True.

Originally Posted by Sandform

The fact that this isn't even what they do (Guess which testament the ten commandments are from) makes it all the more hilarious since the entire point is that religious people are picking and choosing what parts of God's word they feel like following.

True. And christians are not the only ones to do this. Think Jewish, Mormon, Islamic faiths. Think Nostradamus omens. They're all cherrypicking.

You know, when Jesus showed up, he didn't say that the practices of the old law were wrong, in fact he said he didn't come to change the law at all.

True. I wish christians actually read the Bible. We'd have much less christians.

Well then I guess that Jesus obviously had multiple personality disorder, because the rest of the scriptures feature him going around changing all the old laws.

Or you never know, it could have been an ancient typo? But for some reason most atheists seem just as staunch to keep the bible defined as 'the word of God' as the Christians are!

There are gay animals, therefore I say homosexuality is perfectly normal cos it's 'natural' So why would the bible be against a natural phenomena, it just doesn't make sense. Condemn gay animals?

Omg I get it! Offcourse they do, otherwise there wouldn't be any animals in Satans realm!

Originally Posted by Ladon

There are gay animals, therefore I say homosexuality is perfectly normal cos it's 'natural' So why would the bible be against a natural phenomena, it just doesn't make sense. Condemn gay animals?

Omg I get it! Offcourse they do, otherwise there wouldn't be any animals in Satans realm!

You don't even need that sort of argument.

Humans do it, thus it's human. It doesn't harm anyone other than the consented part-takers. There is no ethical/moral reason in THE WORLD for it to be wrong. It's as stupid as outlawing assisted suicide or recreational drug use.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Well then I guess that Jesus obviously had multiple personality disorder, because the rest of the scriptures feature him going around changing all the old laws.

Well, yeah, the bible pretty much contradicts itself all over the place, it is why so many nonreligious people refer to it as the big book of multiple choice, any viewpoint you want you can create using the various contradictions.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Or you never know, it could have been an ancient typo? But for some reason most atheists seem just as staunch to keep the bible defined as 'the word of God' as the Christians are!

Actually, if you go back to my first point, you'll see that I actually wish that religious people would interpret the bible more liberally. It is only when someone justifies their morals by saying "because the bible said it, that you must accept that all of what the bible reports God to have said as moral. Either what God says is moral or it is not.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Actually, if you go back to my first point, you'll see that I actually wish that religious people would interpret the bible more liberally. It is only when someone justifies their morals by saying "because the bible said it, that you must accept that all of what the bible reports God to have said as moral. Either what God says is moral or it is not.

Okay I get the idea. But it ought to stay like that for moral discussions. But for the free thinker, a case for Jesus should be able to be formulated without referring to the bible as God's word. There are many Xians that don't believe it.

I am actually an atheist, however paranoid I get about religion. I just pick up on other atheists' habits.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

You don't even need that sort of argument.

Humans do it, thus it's human. It doesn't harm anyone other than the consented part-takers. There is no ethical/moral reason in THE WORLD for it to be wrong. It's as stupid as outlawing assisted suicide or recreational drug use.

I was using that argument because animals don't really seem to have as much capacity as humans to love, if in fact at all. They mostly act on instincts so for whoever that thinks it's a choice and sort of that... It most likely isn't.

Off topicness!:
Like there aren't enough problems in the world then the politicians start making up stupid laws... I hate the 'assisted suicide' one.

If my best friend wanted to end his life and I can't talk him out of it, and I totally understand his decision then geez... Don't let him die alone ffs, offcourse I would 'assist' him if he needed me to, that's what friends do. It's worse than to hear it the day after imo...