Thread: That grey area between sleep and waking.

Now, all of know what I am talking about. How we lose track of our thoughts and actions in the morning. You wake up thinking, 'What was I thinking right before I fell asleep?'

You see, THAT little minute of hovering is the KEY to successful WILDs. Reading DJs, tutoring people has led me to conclude that we, as a team, have very little to no knowledge about how to work our way through that phase. My goal here, is to research more on this particular aspect of falling asleep, and distinguish the common mistakes.

We cannot entirely overcome what is natural, but I hope that, with some results and participation, we can help newcomers WILD, the highly sought after, initially hard to attain technique.

Ideas?

Hmm, I need volunteers here, guys. I have some exercises planned out.

You haven't provided much for people to go on...and I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. Maybe if you post whatever exercises you've got planned out, then you can ask for volunteers.

Hmm, true. I thought about gathering ideas. We could record our thoughts and actions while sleeping (audio or video or just jot the down somewhere) and get more people to be more 'aware' during that stage.

I have tried this myself. First, I feel my thoughts begin too slightly go astray, meanwhile, my body get heavier and heavier. Then, my thoughts become completely STUPID, while my body seems too heavy to move and I am too comfortable. Then, a distinct weight on or just above my eyelashes can be felt. This 'weight' makes me eventually close my eyes. I can still think and function. Soon, my eyes soon to 'rest'. I don't know how ot explain this exactly, but suddenly they seem to relax by a huge amount. This relaxation stops if I open my eyes, and sets in again when I close them. Eventually, I stop thinking anything at all and ___________ (static noise here. )

The state that you are describing is familiar to me. Unfortunately, it is most likely slipping into one of the Non-REM sleep stages. There's few dreams and fewer remembered in Non-REM. So this would not accomplish what you are trying to do. If you are trying to do this immidiately upon going to bed, there's at least 60 minutes between that minute of lapsing thoughts and first REM episode.

WILD, WILD Onset, DEILD all take the user immidiately into REM. This is the difference. There's no same lapses of thought, because though becomes dream.

PS. From personal experience, being stuck aware in Non-REM stages is torture, it feels like insomnia.

Hmm...
I wanted people to have more control over the transitions between sleep and dream. I noticed people were far too often falling asleep during trying to WILD. Any ideas to counter it?

Originally Posted by Ev

PS. From personal experience, being stuck aware in Non-REM stages is torture, it feels like insomnia.

Man, don't remind me; I hate those nights. =(

Originally Posted by lucidmax15895

Hmm...
I wanted people to have more control over the transitions between sleep and dream. I noticed people were far too often falling asleep during trying to WILD. Any ideas to counter it?

I came up with some tech for it awhile back, even posted one method in my comprehensive guide. The idea for that one is to evoke the thought patterns purposefully through increasingly quick image, idea, and word associations in the hopes of gaining a better sense of awareness during the pre-transition stages.

The method that I'm working right now is with a smart phone playing voice and vibrate reminders during WILD attempts. Check out this thread, http://www.dreamviews.com/f44/android-lucid-apps-96139/ there's a list of timers that was used for WILD/OBE induction:

Originally Posted by Zenman

Ok, I think I just found the ideal LD app. It's called the Zen Timer. ($1.99) It's not really an alarm clock, although you can set it to go off after 6 hours. The way I'm going to use it is how that Nicholas Newport dude recommends. I'm going to do a WBTB and then program the zen timer to chime at various intervals. It actually saves different profiles so I can set it at night before I go to bed and then just start it after my WBTB. I really like the sounds of the bells this app has. I'm not sure if it will be loud enough on my phone (droid incredible) but I'm a pretty light sleeper so we'll see. I think I'll try the intervals that Newport has on his site: 8, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 20, 6

I've been having some great success with WILDing lately but there can be a lot of laying around and waiting. I'm curious to see if the timer method really works. Newport says this method can induce multiple OBE's (Lucid Dreams) in one session. This is kind of exciting but I won't have a chance to try it until probably Tuesday night.

The guy never responded back, I tried similar timers in Lucid Dreaming App (10,15,25,30,35), and I think I can hear 3 of them, so I doze off after about 25 minutes.

Originally Posted by Ev

The method that I'm working right now is with a smart phone playing voice and vibrate reminders during WILD attempts. Check out this thread, http://www.dreamviews.com/f44/android-lucid-apps-96139/ there's a list of timers that was used for WILD/OBE induction:




The guy never responded back, I tried similar timers in Lucid Dreaming App (10,15,25,30,35), and I think I can hear 3 of them, so I doze off after about 25 minutes.

I am trying to FAMILIARIZE that state. And what newbs can expect to happen and be sure if they are doing it right or not. (Though we can never be 100%)

What could also work is to record your voice while falling asleep, and briefly describe what you are thinking / feeling at each stage. Perhaps even combined with Ev's app to make sure you don't drift off completely. And the talking bit would make your awareness last longer. The guys in the old stargate project (now at TMI) were able to get pretty deep and still speak. Volunteers?

Originally Posted by IAmCoder

What could also work is to record your voice while falling asleep, and briefly describe what you are thinking / feeling at each stage. Perhaps even combined with Ev's app to make sure you don't drift off completely. And the talking bit would make your awareness last longer. The guys in the old stargate project (now at TMI) were able to get pretty deep and still speak. Volunteers?

^ That's what I am talking about. Certainly it would be a step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Man, don't remind me; I hate those nights. =(

Not me, I like the trapped feeling. xD

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

I came up with some tech for it awhile back, even posted one method in my comprehensive guide. The idea for that one is to evoke the thought patterns purposefully through increasingly quick image, idea, and word associations in the hopes of gaining a better sense of awareness during the pre-transition stages.

Link?

More IPHONE APPs please Ev!!!

Hmm I was just thinking about this the other day. I think that meditation could possibly be a good way to help people experience WILDs. I find that sometimes if I meditate early in the morning just a little while after waking up, I can get close to that in-between stage. Except there's no risk of falling asleep because I'm sitting upright. Sometimes it can actually get a little intense, I remember one time when I actually started falling asleep (pretty sure I was entering alpha-wave sleep) and I felt the vibrations and quickened heart rate etc. The other way that meditating in the morning might help is that you're much more likely to begin going into sleep as if you were entering REM sleep rather than another stage. It's comparable to when people wake up from a dream and have the ability to go straight back in if they go back to sleep right away, except they're staying awake to experience the transition by sitting upright. Oh and btw I'm not talking about any special "mantra" or "zen" meditation, just sitting comfortably and focussing on something such as your breathing.