Thread: I may have found the Key to Lucid Dreams: Ground breaking Research

But before I can explain how to have Lucid Dreams at will you will need to understand the Neurobiological causes for the loss of consciousness associated with dreams.

According to Allan Hobson the differences between the self-awareness, working memory and executive functions, and consciousness experienced in waking life and its loss in dreaming can be explained by deactivation of the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex during REM sleep (The Prefrontal Cortex in Sleep, 2002).



The Dorsolateral Prefrontal Cortex (DLPFC) is responsible for executive functions and working memory. As a consequence of deactivation of the DLPFC during sleep, executive functions such as self-consciousness and analytical thought are severely impaired during dreams. (The Prefrontal Cortex in Sleep, 2002).

In his book The Dream Drugstore(2001-pg 97) Allan Hobson proposed that lucid dreaming is the result of DLPFC activation during REM sleep, and that working memory resides in the DLPFC which is deactivated during sleep and results in the bizarreness and mute executive functions associated with dreams.

So without wasting anymore of your time let me explain how it might be possible to have Lucid Dreams at will.

As stated earlier Allan Hobson proposed that lucid dreaming is the result of DLPFC activation during REM sleep. There are currently two main forms of non-invasive brain stimulation, there is Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (tMS) and Transcranial Direct Current Stimulation (tDCS). However I will focus on tDCS because it is much safer, more versatile, and a lot less expensive than tMS as well as being more appropriate for our purposes.

Transcranial Direct Current Stimulation (tDCS) is a form of non-invasive brain stimulation. tDCS is the application of weak electrical currents (1-2 mA) to modulate the activity of neurons in the brain.

tDCS It is extremely safe, with no reported cases of any major negative effects. It is also important to distinguish tDCS from electroconvulsive therapy, which is used to treat mental illnesses such as major depression by passing pulses of approximately 1 ampere into the brain in order to provoke an epileptic seizure.

The materials used are very cheap and can be found at your local radio shack.

All that is requires is:

- 9v Battery
- two wires (one anode, one cathode)
- 2 wet saline sponges (for the area to be activated)





Here is a video demonstrating how its applied.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp6bBs16g28

Here is a link to a company that sells tDCS.

http://www.magstim.com/magstimdcstimulator.html

tDCS is used on people with depression, Parkinson, as well as strokes and many other conditions. It has also been able used to increase working memory(Fregni et al., 2005) reduce risk taking behavior (Fecteau et al.,2007) as well as increase word pair retention (Marshall et al.,2004) when placed over the DLPFC. However it can be used on any lateral part of the brain to induce excitability in the brain region being targeted.

I propose that by using tDCS over the DLPFC during REM sleep, that the DLPFC will be activated and induce a Lucid Dream.

I've already discussed this proposal with Allan Hobson, and he has already put it on his list of research studies.







Here are some links to my research:

The prefrontal cortex in sleep 2002
Muzur A, Pace-Schott EF, Hobson JA.

Dreaming: a neuroimaging view 2005
T. T. Dang-Vua, b, 1, M. Desseillesa, c, 1, G. Albouya, A. Darsauda, 1, S. Gaisa, G. Rauchsa, 1, M. Schabusa, V. Sterpenicha, 1, G. Vandewallea, 1, S. Schwartzd, 1, P. Maqueta, b, 1

Functional neuroanatomy of altered states of consciousness: The transient hypofrontality hypothesis 2002
Arne Dietrich

Anodal transcranial direct current stimulation of prefrontal cortex enhances working memory.
Fregni F, Boggio PS, Nitsche M, Bermpohl F, Antal A, Feredoes E, Marcolin MA, Rigonatti SP, Silva MT, Paulus W, Pascual-Leone A.

The use of tDCS and CVS as methods of non-invasive brain stimulation
Gregory Beena, Trung T. Ngoa, b, Steven M. Millera, b and Paul B. Fitzgeralda

Interesting. So is this just an hypothesis? Are you going to test it? Or are you just putting it out there for us to test? I for one will not be shocking my brain to try and induce a lucid dream unless you can show me statistically that it will work more often than not. Interesting idea none the less, and thank you for your research efforts.

Originally Posted by Silverwing

Interesting. So is this just an hypothesis? Are you going to test it? Or are you just putting it out there for us to test? I for one will not be shocking my brain to try and induce a lucid dream unless you can show me statistically that it will work more often than not. Interesting idea none the less, and thank you for your research efforts.

I either have to build the tDCS myself or buy one. Problem is most companies that sell it require you to have some medical degree to buy it.

Heres a video of some guy that built one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SymQqZYiVyA

I will build one soon. Im extremely optimistic that this will work.

Well be sure to keep us posted on your results. It looks easy enough to build, and if it works as you believe it will, then many kudos to you

Do you propose though, that you go to sleep with the sponges attached to your head, so that the current is applied during REM sleep? I think it will be tough to make an REM sensor... I also think it will be tough to fall asleep with a damp sponge attached to my head

Originally Posted by Silverwing

Well be sure to keep us posted on your results. It looks easy enough to build, and if it works as you believe it will, then many kudos to you

Do you propose though, that you go to sleep with the sponges attached to your head, so that the current is applied during REM sleep? I think it will be tough to make an REM sensor... I also think it will be tough to fall asleep with a damp sponge attached to my head

I will try it during WBTB at first, because from the research that I've read so far the effects of tDCS can last for hours after being used.

So I'll wake up during the night, apply the electrodes over by left and right DLPFC, turn it on and keep it on for 30 minutes than go back to sleep. Hopefully I will fall asleep with an active DLPFC which should give me a Lucid Dream.

This certainly sounds interesting, but I keep training myself to overcome my dreams, instead of some machine stimulating certain areas to produce it. I would feel awful being an effect of a machine, instead of causing them myself.

Interesting read. I remember hearing about something like this in my psychology class. A more-painful shock treatment still used today to treat depression and such but only as a last resort after psychotherapy and prescriptions fail.

I'm interested in hearing more about this. I've been wondering how exactly are we not lucid in all our dreams and not just facts but a scientific explanation. You made it easy for me.

I'm looking foward to more results on this. Have you figured a way to beat the placebo? I would suggest have a friend try it and not let him know it is suppose to induce lucid dreaming but then again we would probably wonder why.

Thanks

Is there an update on this, I H8 Reality?

I ask because I find it extremely interesting. If this is true then technically, yes, the perfect lucid dream induction device will have been created by accident. Did Allan Hobson give you an update on his findings too?

Anyway, I know things can slip away and time passes by so no worries if it hasn't go forward.

Very interesting stuff.

This is very interesting but I wonder if you get used to this method of activation and then you stop it, will you be "trained" for lucid dreaming or is this like a "drug" that you have to keep doing to lucid dream? If that is the case, then I am not liking it that much as I am more interested in being able to lucid at will by my own self and not with the help of a stimulation.

This is how reality checks in the waking life method works, except without the use of a device. Basically, you just train that part of your brain that questions reality and soon you will become very good at it to the point of becoming lucid in every dream. I think that is a much better method compared to using an electric device to induce lucid dreaming. Of course if this device trains that part of your brain and has the effect even if you dont use it, then I see this as having potential.

"The materials used are very cheap and can be found at your local radio shack. "

Famous last words...

Interesting, interesting stuff! I'll give it a try, and get to radioshack!

In the pics you do not have a 9v batt, but a steady source of current I assume? Are the results better with this power source??

bump-Interesting read. Sounds like a new lucid inducind technique!

Bump again

yeah i wonder what happened. lol