Thread: Tutorials = Placebo effect

My theory is that this whole deal of "inducing" lucid dreams is nothing more than a glorified form of the placebo effect.

Except for some specific methods (i.e. WILDs, Galantamine and others), all these "tutorials" do is convincing the reader that a lucid dream can be achieved through some procedures.

For example, anyone would execute, at most, a few hundreds of "reality checks" each month, and reality checks would then be expected to appear in dreams. Paradoxically, normal people perform other actions much more frequently during the day, like chewing food, typing or reading words and the like, yet those actions are seldom, if ever, done during a dream.

In fact, I doubt that it would be difficult to find individuals who found it impossible to achieve lucidity in dreams through the methods stated in this website, due to an unusual resistance to this kind of placebo effects (more commonly called "skepticism").

I rest my case.

I see your point and somewhat agree with it. I honestly don't care how I learn to master lucid dreaming, I just want to do it. So whether it's a placebo effect or not, it works.

I've got to agree Motumz, whatever works.

A placebo is using trickery to get the mind/body to mimic the effects of something, such as a sugar pill substituted for a motrin.

A tutorial about lucid dreaming is more like an affirmation used to reprogram behavior patterns. Since the affirmation is about lucid dreaming, there is no deception, therefore it cannot be a placebo.

Man, my head hurts.

Originally Posted by Seeker

A tutorial about lucid dreaming is more like an affirmation used to reprogram behavior patterns. Since the affirmation is about lucid dreaming, there is no deception, therefore it cannot be a placebo.

I think there is a deception.
If someone followed the instructions without expecting to have lucid dreams afterwards, lucid dreams most probably wouldn't ensue. Therefore, the tutorial must be a placebo.

Originally Posted by Vandalf

My theory is that this whole deal of "inducing" lucid dreams is nothing more than a glorified form of the placebo effect.

If you ever ride through an intense, mind-shattering WILD transition, you will know it is much, much more than the Placebo Effect.

I agree to a point. We respond well to ritual and positive thinking. In addition to that, a big part of lucid dreaming is figuring out how to trick yourself.

Oh yes I agree completely. With the NILD technique, technically it doesn't really matter if you use the mnemonic "I am not going to have lucid dream tonight" or "I am going to have lucid dream tonight" becuase all that matters is your intentions. If you want to have a lucid dream sooner or later you will.

DILD's really aren't placebo. During a LD your brain goes back to Alpha state which wakes itself up partially. Your half-awaken brain remembers to reality check. Success.

Basic goal is to raise mental alertness and hope that it carries over into your dreams. Question events out of the ordinary and such. Eating is an automatic, programmed response that uses minimal brain power, but a successful reality check during the day will activate critical logic centers and such. There IS a difference. Obviously, if someone gets in the habit of absent-mindedly doing reality checks, any success derived would likely be from a placebo effect...

Originally Posted by hellohihello

During a LD your brain goes back to Alpha state which wakes itself up partially.

Originally Posted by hellohihello

Alpha state

With all due respect, sir, I think you have no idea of what you are talking about. If a "lucid dream" was actually had in Alpha state, it wouldn't be a dream. Technically, one would be awake during the whole experience. Therefore, I suggest you to at least search in http://en.wikipedia.org in the future, before making posts of that nature.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Basic goal is to raise ... blah blah blah

So, hypothetically speaking, if I was an officer in the battlefield and every action I performed was extremely taxing for my reasoning skills and such, would I be much more likely to have lucid dreams?

I don't study human behavior or the brain, but I can recognize flawed logic stupidity.

"If the medicine of the imagination is best, then why not use the medicine of the imagination?" (ha, I'll insert the person who said this when I find it... I included it in a paper during research on hypnotherapy as an undergrad).

I don't know how the placebo effect got such a bad rep. One of the most incredible and non-understood phenomena in science! It's so frustrating to scientists because they don't know how to explain it. If suggestion is such a powerful force... one should use it to its fullest to enhance his life (stop smoking, improve his health, become successful, do well in school, etc). LOL... it's "just placebo". Boy, does perspective make a difference or what?! But the placebo effect doesn't stop there... it generalizes to physical maladies as well. LOL... the cancer may have disappeared in that person but by golly I'm no idiot. I know it was just "placebo" . Healthy skepticism can be good in the right situation... but when attempting to bring about things in life that you want (lucidity, health, wealth), it is often synonymous with 'doubt' and it does hold ya back.

@Seeker... maybe you're thinking of a placebo (this is like the sugar pill). The placebo effect is when that group shows significant improvement because they believe that they are getting something therapeutic. The group that receives the placebo routinely shows a statistically significant and fairly predictable change beyond that of 'no intervention'. Crazy, really And the really crazy thing is that this is not just 'self reported', we're talking objectively recorded physiological changes. If it were 'just chance' that this percentage would get better... then the 'no intervention' group would also have similar experiences. And this isn't just once or twice, this is consistently from study to study, year to year in both behavioral and medical science. What we should be studying IS the placebo effect. That's what I'm doing. It's not a 'lie'... it's a real thing that we can harness to heal with.

Originally Posted by Vandalf

My theory is that this whole deal of "inducing" lucid dreams is nothing more than a glorified form of the placebo effect.

Except for some specific methods (i.e. WILDs, Galantamine and others), all these "tutorials" do is convincing the reader that a lucid dream can be achieved through some procedures.

For example, anyone would execute, at most, a few hundreds of "reality checks" each month, and reality checks would then be expected to appear in dreams. Paradoxically, normal people perform other actions much more frequently during the day, like chewing food, typing or reading words and the like, yet those actions are seldom, if ever, done during a dream.

In fact, I doubt that it would be difficult to find individuals who found it impossible to achieve lucidity in dreams through the methods stated in this website, due to an unusual resistance to this kind of placebo effects (more commonly called "skepticism").

I rest my case.