Thread: Explain to me the 4th dimension.

WHenever I look online, all I find is this.


It is very cool and all, but it doesn't explain nothing to me. So I figured that I would ask the smartest fourm I know.

Please explain this to me, I feel like I need to know. I can understand the 2nd and 3rd dimensions, but the fourth is a little less understandable. Thanks!

Fourth dimension is time, the measurement between events, rather than points. WE move through the fourth dimension at... a fairly uncontrolled rate, though that rate varies slightly with our velocity. The average person doesn't have much control on their journey through time. Didn't watch the video, can't, but if there's anything more specific you want to know, you'll have to ask, since I can't do that for you.

If time is the 4th, then I am refering to the 5th. I know how time works, I have a basic grasp on how we move 'through it'. I am talking about the next dimension.

This is very helpful in attempting to understand the 4th dimension.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver.../whatis4d.html

Time does not exist except as a mesurement of space. It is not the 4th dimension.

From what I can tell from the image, I'd have to say that the fourth dimension is something that is imperceptible in a normal state of consciousness. You probably have to be on drugs to experience it from within human consciousness if it is possible at all/is even a "real" thing. Human consciousness creates a 3D perspective of reality. I suppose it's possible to visualize a four dimensional shape, but because our perspective is limited to 3 you can build anything like that.

I'd really like to see a 3D hologram of something in 4D. Now that would give you a better idea.


I've never really thought about this too much before. Every thing I've read about it seemed like complete nonsense, but that image makes some sense.

This was fun I thought

Ignore these people. The 4th spacial dimension is not time, and it is definitely not some weird plane of consciousness.

It's an unanswered question why there are 3 spacial dimensions in this universe, and not some other number. There is absolutely no reason why there shouldn't be, and anybody who tells you there is is simply an unimaginative person. All other spacial dimensions are just as mathematically - logically - consistent as these.

To think in terms of the fourth spacial dimension, it is actually extremely easy.

First, picture a dot. This is the 0th spacial dimension. There are no degrees of freedom at all.

Second, imagine this dot splitting like a cell into two dots, some distance apart, and between them, they draw a line, like a spider drawing a thread. You now have a line with two dots at each end; this is the 1st dimension, and there is 1 degree of freedom.

Now, imagine these two dots splitting into four in the same way as before. Separate the two new dots and again join them up with lines. You have a square, the 2nd dimension.

Do it again. Split these four dots into eight, separate them, and you have a cube, the 3rd spacial dimension.

And then do it again. Split the eight dots into sixteen, and separate them. You now have two superimposed cubes. Obviously this is a mere shadow of what a 4 dimensional cube (called a tesseract) actually is because it is not possible for the human neural network to comprehend such things, but nevertheless, it gives you an extremely clear idea of what one is, much like drawing a cube on paper gives you a clear idea what one is, even though the 'depth' cannot be transcribed onto the paper.

In Einstein's theory of general relativity, basically he creates a mathematical framework in which you interpret this fourth dimension as time; but that is a physical theory. It is completely separate from what you wanted to know, which is the mathematical generalisation of n-dimensional forms.

And you can continue to expand upon this; a cube in the 5th spacial dimension will have 32 verticies, a cube in the 6th spacial dimension will have 64 verticies, and so on.

Hope that helped.

Originally Posted by dajo

This was fun I thought

Fun, but woefully inaccurate I'm told.

Originally Posted by Reality_is_a_Dream

It is very cool and all, but it doesn't explain nothing to me. So I figured that I would ask the smartest fourm I know.

Double negatives make me horny.

I'm on my iPod,so I'm going to have to completely ignore preceeding comments. The fourth dimension would be seeing every side of something. We see in the second dimension, only seeing a two dimension representation of an object. I'm pretty sure that seeing in he fourth dimension would be like looking at all side of something. What yu have Thier is a tesseract or hypercube. Read a wrinkle in time, it goes into it a bit

Despite what some have said here, human beings are really only capable of directly (visually) percieving 2 dimensions. What you see is not 3 dimensions, otherwise you would be able to see both the front and back (plus all other angles) of an object. What you really see is a stereoscopic 2 dimensional picture (2 eyes) and your brain approximates variable distances to create a 3 dimensional model. Now, if you can imagine the capability of truly seeing in 3 dimensions; seeing an object from every angle at once, then you might be able to imagine a situation in which you could form a sort of stereoscopic picture of the 3 dimensional world to approximate 4 dimensions. What this might be is somehow simultaneously percieving three dimensional objects in their full range of positions as they move through space. Kind of like being able to see a person live out their life from beginning to end in real three dimensions all at once.

A good way to imagine this would be to just look at the end of ruler and imagine that it is only 1 dimension, and then turn it so that you can see it head on and realize that it is really 2 dimensions (ignoring thickness).

If you want to put it in terms of the video you posted, all you have to do is realize that when the lines seem to shrink, grow and pass through each other, they aren't really changing or passing through each other, you are just seeing the object from different angles. It would be the same if you had a 2 dimensional animation of a 3 dimensional cube. The lines would appear to shrink and grow, and then pass through each other depending on which was in the foreground and which was in the background.

I found some good sources for visualization. The first is a stereoscopic image of a tesseract, found on wikipedia. You need to do the magic eye cross eye thing to see it.

The second is an article about mapping 4 dimensional objects to a 3d projection of a tesseract in order to visualize what they look like. It goes in to more depth, and also explains why this is useful.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Despite what some have said here, human beings are really only capable of directly (visually) percieving 2 dimensions.

THAT'S WHAT I FUCKING SAID!
Shit.

We see in the second dimension, only seeing a two dimension representation of an object.

Calm down. Clearly you weren't part of the "some."

Originally Posted by Reality_is_a_Dream

It is very cool and all, but it doesn't explain nothing to me. So I figured that I would ask the smartest fourm I know.

Please explain this to me, I feel like I need to know. I can understand the 2nd and 3rd dimensions, but the fourth is a little less understandable. Thanks!

To better understand the difficulty of picturing 4d objects, consider the difficulty a 2d being would have conceiving of a 3D world.

You should read the book Flatland, available online here:
http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/
There are several movie versions of the book available as well if you can find them.

Or check out Dr Quantum

Dejo, that video has the best explaination on the internet. EVAR.

I'm too lazy to explain it as I understand it now. I'll do it tomorrow.

explain to me the 5th dimension

seriously, when did soul music go out of style?

ill always let the sun shine no matter what anyone else says

The fourth dimension is like the second and third dimension, except that it has cool extradimensional alien creatures in it. Also, it rains chicken wings.

~

This is how i understand the 4th dimension.

The 4th dimension is the fabric of experience. The fabric obeys only two rules.

1st Rule: There are no rules.
2nd Rule: The rules can always change.

If you understand that the 4th dimension is infinite 3 dimensions- imagine this- imagine yourself in a room, a box, with doors on all sides in the middle of the walls. All sides and doors are the same. You walk through one door, and find yourself in the same room....forever. Its as if YOU are one box, and the box you are in is the other box. You as the observer not only perceive yourself, but the world around you. We observe the boxes.

Another way to see it is that EVERYTHING...AND I MEAN EVERYTHING, we experience or have sensed felt or whatever, has a beginning a middle and an end. Everything. That shows that we are experiencing many (one two threes), triangles if you wish. However the only way we can see different triangles is if there is room for somthing to begin again, and the 4th dimension unlike the 3rd dimension gives the opportunity.

Jesus...talking about this stuff is just ridiculous though because even the words we say, and the understanding that is brought from them, will be forgotten- (maybe remembered again) but since what we experience has a beginning a middle and an end, we can talk forever and only realize we're spiraling in and out of perceptual circles.

Otherwise...The 4th dimension is puzzling. I would say the best quote I can muster up about this is: "Its all bullshit so start eating."

hope that helps

You're pretty high huh.

I always thought that 4th dimensional creatures are ghosts and spirits. Things that live in the fourth dimension appearing in the third. Thats why we don't see them fully because its like taking an apple dipping it in ink and printing it in the 2nd dimension. It would look nothing like the apple we know.

But thats just me in bonkers land

Originally Posted by mrdeano

I always thought that 4th dimensional creatures are ghosts and spirits. Thing that live in the fourth dimension appearing in the third. That why we don't see them fully because its like taking an apple dipping it in ink and printing it in the 2nd dimension. It would look nothing like the apple we know.

I can't say I agree with that idea, but I like it.

Originally Posted by mrdeano

I always thought that 4th dimensional creatures are ghosts and spirits. Things that live in the fourth dimension appearing in the third. Thats why we don't see them fully because its like taking an apple dipping it in ink and printing it in the 2nd dimension. It would look nothing like the apple we know.

But thats just me in bonkers land

We are not in the "3rd" dimension. We are in 3 dimensions. A "fourth dimension being" would be actually one-dimensional, which means it'd be a line or a dot. Dimensions are not ordered. Objects are constituted of a number of dimensions, not an order of them.

Our physical world is constituted of 3 dimensions, that's why we call it 3D - not because dimensions are "different worlds" or something. Matter is, all those new-ageish superstitious bitches sell the idea that a dimension is a kind of different reality.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

We are not in the "3rd" dimension. We are in 3 dimensions. A "fourth dimension being" would be actually one-dimensional, which means it'd be a line or a dot. Dimensions are not ordered. Objects are constituted of a number of dimensions, not an order of them.

Our physical world is constituted of 3 dimensions, that's why we call it 3D - not because dimensions are "different worlds" or something. Matter is, all those new-ageish superstitious bitches sell the idea that a dimension is a kind of different reality.

Our physical world constitutes of many dimensions, string theory has it. We ourselves can only percieve a 3 dimensions at a time.

Originally Posted by Dreams4free

Our physical world constitutes of many dimensions, string theory has it. We ourselves can only percieve a 3 dimensions at a time.

You got my point. I also think space has (at least) 4 dimensions, not 3, and that'd explain things like in General Relativity when light makes a curve while not making a curve.

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Philo, to quote my original post:

Dimensions are just dimensions. Dimensions don't have orders or meaning. They are like independent directions, though dimensions can be mutually dependent. There is no "the" 4th dimension, there can be a 4th dimension, and it can be any dimension you want it to... Time, mass, energy, eccentricity, number of breaths in a second, etc. A graph of speed X gas use X time has 3 dimensions. Basically that.

That is exactly it. A graph of speed X time, for example, has two dependent dimensions, because the definition of one involves the other. There can never be a change in the time value which doesn't affect the speed value (that, of course, assuming space hasn't changed too). That's why they are dependent. Deep inside, all dimensions of the universe (space, time, mass, light, whatever else) are an outcome of the fundamental concept of energy.