Thread: Obama atheist

Sadly, in America right now our country is controlled by fundamentalists and we have to endure for 11 more months.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Most communists were Russian Orthodox - Christian.

I was referencing the propaganda, not the reality. Like all our conflicts since the Civil War, the Cold War was mainly about keeping the American War Machine in business.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

If that's true, then I can only conclude that the american way of thinking is as primitive as the fundie-muslim way of thinking.
Sad, real sad.
Where I live no one cares about religion in politics...

Not everybody here is a religious fanatic. We just have enough people who are to make the difference. Also, at least our religious fanatics are not targetting masses of innocent people all over the world in the name of their religion. Are you ever scared to ride an airplane because you think fundamentalist Christian Americans are going to blow it up? Of course you're not. Are you afraid that they are trying to get a hold of weapons of mass destruction and blow up your city because you are infidels? I can't stand the influence modern day Christian fundamentalism has on my country, but I recognize that it is nowhere near as dangerous as Islamofascism. There is no comparison.

True. Still, the idea that one of the most influential and most powerful nations in the world is ruled by morons worries me.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

True. Still, the idea that one of the most influential and most powerful nations in the world is ruled by morons worries me.

Me too.

By the way, is there any country in the world with an atheist or agnostic leader? I have never heard of one. It would be very interesting if there is, and it would be good backup for arguing against fundamentalists if it is a well off country.

Most countries leaders are religious, but the ones run by fundamentalists are rare. The only (developed) countries that I can think of run by hard core fundamentalists are the USA and Saudi Arabia.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Most countries leaders are religious, but the ones run by fundamentalists are rare. The only (developed) countries that I can think of run by hard core fundamentalists are the USA and Saudi Arabia.

To be fair, fundamentalists in both those countries get much more "hard core" than their leaders.

As for countries run by atheists, everyone seems to forget China. Maybe they're not what you'd like to think an atheist state would look like, but the facts remain that their revolution proceeded under the same values espoused by many in this forum: religion is oppressive and antithetical to progress, and modernization and government founded on 'rational' principles is key. They simply took the next step that any means are justified to realize those values, and stirred in a heaping helping of nationalism to get people moving.

True, there are bible belt nuts crazier than Bush and Islam nuts worse than the Saudi family, but their views cause problems with their countries. Bush actually thought that god had told him to invade Iraq.

I thought about China too, but I couldn't find anything confirming that the leaders were atheists.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I thought about China too, but I couldn't find anything confirming that the leaders were atheists.

Here's a pretty good indication from Wikipedia:

In response to the great number of social problems in China, in March 2006, Hu Jintao released the core Socialist moral system entitled the Eight Honours and Eight Shames as a set of moral codes to be followed by the Chinese people, and emphasized the need to spread the message to youth.[6] Alternatively known as the Eight Honours and Disgraces, it contained eight poetic lines which summarized what a good citizen should regard as an honour and what to regard as a shame. It has been widely regarded as one of Hu Jintao's ideological solutions to the increasing lack of morality in China after Chinese economic reforms brought in a generation of Chinese predominantly concerned with earning money and power in an increasingly frail social fabric. It has become a norm for Chinese communist leaders to make their own contributions to Marxist theory. Whether this is Hu's contribution to Marxist theory is debatable, but its general reception with the Chinese public has been moderate.

Demographically, about 59% of Chinese people identify as "non-religious," though even prior to the rise of the PRC, there was a lot of gray area between religion and philosophy in China, with Confucius' pragmatic philosophy the dominant view.

Philosophies are much better than religion. Same morals, but no flock and allegiance to an imaginary god. No disagreement over the interpretation of metaphors in a holy book which breaks out into wars.

Everyone's forgetting about that European country which is almost completely atheist. That country is always a great example to use in debates when you want to show that atheism can lead to very peaceful and wonderful societies.

Now if I could only remember which country it is!!

Edit: Perhaps it's Sweden?

Just looked up some statistics... I keep forgetting how atheist Japan is. Anyway, I'm sure countries such as these have an atheist leader.

Sweden and France are pretty non-religious.

Canada is pretty good at seperating church and state, religion is usually a private thing here and rarely infiltrates politics (sometimes the Conservative party brings it up when talking about abortion or gay marriage). It's also perfectly acceptable to ridicule or joke about religion in informal settings.

It is here too. Only in the red states are religion and politics combined, the blue ones keep it pretty separate. You have problems with people against gay marriage in too? I thought Canada was pretty good about that.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

It is here too. Only in the red states are religion and politics combined, the blue ones keep it pretty separate. You have problems with people against gay marriage in too? I thought Canada was pretty good about that.

For now it's legal, but it's against the current government's agenda (even though the population really doesn't give a damn). They won't do anything about it until they get a majority though.

What does the Canadian conservatives use for their excuse for the homophobia? Ours use the bible, there is no separation of church and state in the south.

Gay marriage is legal in a few of the states, but all of the states have to honor each others legal documents, so the gays just go to different states then go back. Or to Canada

Gah that whole gay marriage issue is such a waste of time and energy. This is precisely one of the ways in which people impose their religious beliefs on others, and unfortunately they seem more justified in doing so if they're people of power. Seriously, the issue is so stupid that it's funny. Who cares who is attracted to whom?? I don't really understand what right anyone has to say that person X can't marry person Y.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Gah that whole gay marriage issue is such a waste of time and energy. This is precisely one of the ways in which people impose their religious beliefs on others, and unfortunately they seem more justified in doing so if they're people of power. Seriously, the issue is so stupid that it's funny. Who cares who is attracted to whom?? I don't really understand what right anyone has to say that person X can't marry person Y.

Yeah, that's what I think sometimes. It'd be the same as not letting two differently raced people marry each other. But then again, a guy and a guy just doesn't seem like what nature had in mind. Especially considering the fact that females are the ones who can have kids.

But I mean where do we draw the line? What if a 30 year old is attracted to a 5 year old?

Originally Posted by De-lousedInTheComatorium

Yeah, that's what I think sometimes. It'd be the same as not letting two differently raced people marry each other. But then again, a guy and a guy just doesn't seem like what nature had in mind. Especially considering the fact that females are the ones who can have kids.

But I mean where do we draw the line? What if a 30 year old is attracted to a 5 year old?

Then ministers will end up married to emus

Let's repeat the magic words:

consenting adults
consenting adults
consenting adults

Originally Posted by ninja9578

What does the Canadian conservatives use for their excuse for the homophobia? Ours use the bible, there is no separation of church and state in the south.

Gay marriage is legal in a few of the states, but all of the states have to honor each others legal documents, so the gays just go to different states then go back. Or to Canada

I'm not sure exactly, it's not one of the debate points I really care about. I think they talk about "proper familly values and good morals", I'm pretty sure they don't bring the Bible or religion into it.

Originally Posted by De-lousedInTheComatorium

Yeah, that's what I think sometimes. It'd be the same as not letting two differently raced people marry each other. But then again, a guy and a guy just doesn't seem like what nature had in mind. Especially considering the fact that females are the ones who can have kids.

But I mean where do we draw the line? What if a 30 year old is attracted to a 5 year old?

It doesn't seem "natural" to us because of the particular society we've grown up in... but homosexuality is present in a load of different species of animals, so it is quite "natural" in that sense.

I think it's completely different from the 30 year old and the 5 year old. I mean that's an entirely different issue. Most societies can agree that only adults should get married, although as you know, there are still some cultures where 12 year old girls are married off to old guys. But meh, who am I to judge...

Originally Posted by Spartiate

I'm not sure exactly, it's not one of the debate points I really care about. I think they talk about "proper familly values and good morals", I'm pretty sure they don't bring the Bible or religion into it.

What do morals have to do with homosexuals? Do they think that gays are less moral than straights?

Originally Posted by ninja9578

What do morals have to do with homosexuals? Do they think that gays are less moral than straights?

They're conservatives, homosexuality isn't tradional.

Yeah, blow me.

(This message made possible by a misanthropic disconnection with the world as I know it)

Originally Posted by Jrels

Yeah, blow me.

(This message made possible by a misanthropic disconnection with the world as I know it)

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...=12857&page=39