Thread: New polyphasic sleep pattern

I don't know of anyone currently on a triphasic schedule besides the few of you starting to try it here. I'm actually not sure I've even heard of any success stories with it. But I think after adaptation if you took an 8 hour nap once every 2 weeks or something it would be fine.

Originally Posted by TempleGuard

How is this "your own variation"? This is dymaxion. And how do you need 5 minutes to go to sleep, after the first day you will need under a minute. Better check in google for dymaxion, it is a real hard schedule, but definitely doable. Gl.

In fact, dymaxion has only ever been achieved successfully by the person who coined the term, to my knowledge.
I.e. in the polyphasic google group, the bunch of polyphasers I chat to, etc... none of them know of anybody..

So take 'hard' and replace with 'potentially impossible'
I wouldn't say doable.

Originally Posted by Placebo

In fact, dymaxion has only ever been achieved successfully by the person who coined the term, to my knowledge.
I.e. in the polyphasic google group, the bunch of polyphasers I chat to, etc... none of them know of anybody..

So take 'hard' and replace with 'potentially impossible'
I wouldn't say doable.

At least is documented, which is something I cant say about the trinity and lucidman. I think I read somewhere that 1% of the population can do it, which sounds doable, idk.

I think it's important to remember that the pioneers of polyphasic sleep didn't have previous research, vetted methods, or even a forum to discuss their respective attempts.

They just did what they could. Some schedules work for some, others don't. I think a lot of it depends on your motivations.

If you have a new idea for a schedule, I think you should be able to (at the very least) discuss it in this forum. I, for one, will encourage anyone who fails at one but keeps trying or who fails at a particular schedule and wants to switch to another.

For some people, Everyman works wonderfully. Others do well on Uberman. I think everyone likes the idea of Dymaxion, but confirmed success of that schedule is sketchy (that doesn't mean you shouldn't try though).

Lucidman and Trinity are too new (in the case of Lucidman) or seldom used (in the case of Trinity) to have a lot of documented success one way or the other. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to stick with the Trinity schedule until it either works or kills me, and I don't think the lack of documented success is stopping Placebo from giving Lucidman the good ol' college try (not that I want to speak out of turn though, so forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth Placebo).

Like I said, I think motivation is most of the battle.

Lucidman sounds interesting... I'm sorry if it's summarized in this thread and I missed it, but I'm in the "W" part of my wake-back-to-bed and i feel the "BTB" calling...

I did a search and can't find anything about it on the forums... can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by luke

hey, this is very similar to my sleeping pattern. I named it LUCID-MAN because it was good at inducing dreams, i havent yet had actual lucids but it is only a matter of time.
Anyway, I sleep every 8 hours for 40 minutes although I split the 40 min block into two seperate 20 minute blocks. That is, I sleep for 20 minutes, wake for 5 minutes, then sleep again for another 20. I do this 3 times a day with a total of 2 hours. I'm not sure if it worked because my alarm fucked up so somebody should try it for me. I found this was a lot more refreshing than a continuous 40 minute sleep because you are having 2 power naps.

It is essentially uberman but you dont have to nap every 4 hours (one of the main critiques).

Someone try it please.

EDIT: I'm an ex-bi-phasic sleeper but I am thinking of going back to bi-phasic until I get a new alarm.

That is basically it

I crashed on lucidman, but it was most likely the family event that threw things off, not as much the schedule (coke, alcohol, unable to take both naps)

The family event was, diabolically, planned exactly when I was most likely to have my hardest night of sleep deprivation before things started getting better (3rd or 4th consecutively successful night) ... which was last night.

So only started getting things on track again tonight :/

Originally Posted by tendomentis

I suppose that the more difficult tri/polyphasic schedules absolutely require one to be in near perfect health to excel at one.

I've been thinking though, does anyone else on a tri/polyphasic schedule take occasionaly "vacation" naps of 8 hours every few weeks? I've read a couple accounts of people on uberman and dymaxion who do that.

For the first part, I disagree.
I believe that with these types of schedules, the worst you can do is switch back to monophasic when you are ill, because that will require transition and the pain of more transition once you get over your illness and you want to get back into your schedule.
When I got sick on my bi-phasic schedule, I just slept for another cycle before each period, so I was getting more sleep (9 hours as opposed to 6) during that time until weas feeling better again. This worked fine for me.
I can't speak for polypasics because they have to adhere to a schedule that doesn't let them sleep longer. So, maybe instead they should get another nap in there somewhere; that is, sleep seven times during the illness period. I don't think your body would kick up much of a fuss, and it is better than going back to monophasic.

And secondly, about the "vacation" thing, I think it's nonsense. I was told to do that on bi phasic after a month or so, but it is just a waste of time. You don't need it at all. I think it just undermines the purpose of alternative sleeping schedules, which is to become more efficient by increasing wakefulness. I mean, recharging with a 24 hour nap, as was recommended to me, is just distancing yourself from an actual, genuine "schedule". It's like all the polyphasics telling the monophasics to sleep polyphasic once every month because their bodies need to recharge from a crap 9-hour boring schedule. Yeah, I bi-phasicked for about eight months and never needed to recharge.

Originally Posted by Placebo

...hardest night of sleep deprivation before things started getting better (3rd or 4th consecutively successful night) ...

So does this mean that after the 4th night it gets atleast a little easyer? Because, after failing again almost a week ago, I decided to take one day off and start again in the evening. It was Friday when I started, so by now I have endured the first 3 nights (it's now 7:27 AM in Bulgaria). If that is the case, then I will have even more will to go by today
Btw, Yesterday was one of my most hardest waking ups ever. After awaking from my 12 PM nap I almost couldn't open my eyes. I got to bed (I was sleeping on the couch), turned the light out and almost gave up. Then I summed up all my will and driven myself up After that I was like a zombie for half an hour, but then felt fine. It was very strange.

The third night is usually worst for me, and it gets steadily a bit better each night after that - but only a tiny bit at a time, so keep up your guard for up to 2 weeks, and even after that it's not good to think of experimenting until at least 4 weeks in.

WOW! And I don't mean World of Warcraft. Nope, not Women Of Wrestling either. I just got my first lucid dream! I can't feel more happy and excited about it. It's just... WOW! It was very strange. I just got to bed in 4 AM (now it's 4:26, so you're getting it straight from the oven ) and woke up 13 minutes later. I was dreaming that i was sitting on a stand of somesort, and was overhearing a dude's conversation with his girlfriend, or something like that. They were arguing I think. Then the dude came to me and sat next to me. We started talking like we were friends, but I knew we weren't. Then I told him that his problem was that he lets himself being controled by her too much. He said somth. and asked me if I wanted to grab a bite. He asked me if I wanted to eat a dyuner, and I told him that I was not hungry and that I ate a few hours ago. We started going to the dyuner stand, and it was itching at me to tell him, that I was a poliphasic sleeper. Whyle we were walking, I was actualy floating in the air, more like swimming. It felt kinda awkward and I was looking at him to see if he was looking at me strange for swimming through the air (I guess that was the first time I started getting lucid). Then we got to the stand and I actualy realised that I was floating and that I am dreaming. This is kinda strange, because I haven't done reality cheks for months. I got realy excited (bad thing, as I learned from expirience) and wanted to tell him. I started tapping him on the shoulder saying: "Dude, dude, that is a dream, that is a lucid dream". Then I realised I was waking up and tried to stabilise. "Look at my hands", I said to myself, I looked, but they weren't there. Then I said, no, no, the feet, look at the feet. But they, too, weren't there. Then I thought "No, don't look at the feet, spin! SPIN!" And I started spinning, but I guess it was too little too late. I quikly woke up. And, again, not to full extend. I woke up, but felt a weight on my feet, as if I was standing on them. I moved one of my feet and the weight went away. Then did the same with the other one. Then jumped and started laughing. I love it!
So, I guess I should be going back to bed now. Just wanted to report, let the excitement pass away.

Good work!
I still haven't had a lucid yet. I want to so bad, but I am too tired all the time.

I'm new to the forum, but not new to sleeping schedules, and have decided to give lucidman a go. But I have had problems waking up from my alarm, especially the second part of the 'block' in the early morning. Placebo, you have been doing lucidman for a week or so now, how did you get past the adaption period? You mentioned that you used coffee... I don't drink coffee, but I could start, just for the adpation period until I get the hang of things.

When do you take the coffee, and do you have any tips on getting past this difficult time?
Thanks

Originally Posted by reff

Good work!
I still haven't had a lucid yet. I want to so bad, but I am too tired all the time.

I'm new to the forum, but not new to sleeping schedules, and have decided to give lucidman a go. But I have had problems waking up from my alarm, especially the second part of the 'block' in the early morning. Placebo, you have been doing lucidman for a week or so now, how did you get past the adaption period? You mentioned that you used coffee... I don't drink coffee, but I could start, just for the adpation period until I get the hang of things.

When do you take the coffee, and do you have any tips on getting past this difficult time?
Thanks

I'm not Placebo, but I can still give u a decent advice. As Steve Pavlina say's in his Polyphasic Sleep Log, coffeine prevents you from having REM sleep, but that you should already know. What the adaptation period is for, is adapting to having REM sleep right after you fall asleep. Now, if you are prevented from having REM, how will you adapt? I personally tried coffe for couple of days, then stopped and almost fell asleep standing. So, IMHO, coffeine isn't good for sleep schedules. It may help you get trough the waking hours, but then you will oversleep a lot.

Err... I'm busy answering a lot of questions on the google group atm, I'll post what I said here when I'm done.

But briefly , what massive said is true - caffeine is typically not a good idea, because of the time it takes for your body to get rid of it (3 to 4 hours half life, meaning that on uberman, you never quite get rid of it ... 6 to 8 hours to rid yourself of all caffeine effects means you're screwed.

However, this is a bit different in theory on a lucidman schedule, because there's a good 8 hours between naps, meaning that assuming your body metabolises well enough, you'll be rid of the caffeine in time for the next nap.
And I need not explain how helpful coffee can be to stay awake, I'm sure

Tips for getting past the 'difficult time' are as I mentioned on the email group - have a flask of coffee waiting, and all you want to do is sit up and sip your coffee.
By the time you're done with it, you're in a better state of mind to decide to get up.
And of course, use the mp3s to make sure you wake up, and if the going is particularly tough, keep a backup alarm in case you do something silly like pull the earphones out in your delusions/excuses for sleeping more.

Once you're up - walk around and wash your face, talk to someone/something, generally wake up a bit. But don't take too long, or the coffee will kick in too soon into your second nap.

After the second nap, you should find it easier to get up. A backup alarm is still advised if you're in the thick of things, but I didn't find that necessary.

Here's what I said in emails:

Originally Posted by me

Thanks guys, I feel loved again
Now if only I could make a bit of a living from this. Free mp3s are cool and everything, but don't pay bills

Anyway, I'm not nearly as amazing as you all think. I'd love to piss excellence, but I'm human(ish) too.
Firstly, this lucidman schedule isn't of my own conception, but an idea of somebody on DreamViews (a guy named Luke)
Although I did add the coffee nap concept and my own personal routine. And of course, my mp3s

He hasn't done it properly himself, and he named it lucidman with the hope that it would result in lots of lucid dreams (well, that'd be nice, but since adapted uberman normally gives me quite a few... it makes sense)

Secondly, I've only been doing this schedule for about a week, and 2 days ago was my family xmas party. Things didn't go well for my schedule - I got pressured into drinking, and only got time for one nap, etc etc.
I thought I was still good, but my 9am nap ended up being a single nap of 5 hours

So this schedule is largely unproven. The only reason I believe it has a lot of potential is that for the first few days it seemed to doing well. That's far from solid evidence of course.
That's why I initially wanted to wait before telling you guys about this. But somebody wants to have a go at it too, great, I'd love to see the results.

If this schedule is workable, it should be a lot easier to adapt to than uberman. So this could be a step to uberman, but honestly, why would you want to change to uberman from this? The advantages are far greater on this schedule IMO.

Now onto those questions... err... I'll make it another post, since there were so many.

Originally Posted by me

Again thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it.
Do you guys mind if I posted some of this stuff on my site... when I finally get it together to revamp it?
With reference to your nicks of course.

Before I go on, there are a lot of other tips that I never mentioned in those other posts.
- Don't sit in the dark. Seems obvious, but don't be tempted to try. The brighter the room, the better, for reasons of day/night rhythm.
- Avoid very heavy, fatty, unhealthy meals during adaptation, and don't eat within an hour or two of your naps. IMO rather delay your nap by up to an hour. Rather that than your body struggling through a bad meal.
- Do some cardio (get your heart rate up) right after your nap, particularly the one before night time.
- Snack on light and healthy food to keep your blood sugar stable
- Work out a list of things you want to do at night, and arrange them in order of mental & physical requirements. When you feel really out of sorts and 'stupid', don't try to do calculus. You'll just sit there in a zombie state and end up passing out. At least that's what I have to avoid.
- If you're really struggling at night, tell yourself how you piss excellence and just need to take a jog outside (substitute any cardio here)'. And then do it . In my case, I have a treadmill downstairs which I just need to crawl onto and press the button. The nice thing about a treadmill is you had better move on it. Or hit the wall behind you
- Learn to meditate and clear your mind. If you struggle to go to sleep, meditate in a sleeping position instead. You will still get some rejuvenation. In my case, I go into sleep paralysis even though I'm still aware of myself.

... err don't remember any other tips right at the moment, but those are a good start I think

Okay, let's tackle the stack of questions..

Originally Posted by Netopalis

I'd be very interested in both hearing more about your schedule and in
the new MP3! Could you please tell us a bit more and upload at some
point in the near future?

Since there seems to be some interest in it, sure
Just need to make one or two little adjustments first

Originally Posted by William Cleveland

You're amazing.... (How did I do?)

A bit of overkill, but the flattery comes at a good time
Pity it doesn't pay bills though
I'll upload soon

Originally Posted by Marcus

what you had to do to adapt to it

Just the coffee nap and routine as described, and doing a bit of exercise after some naps to keep the furnace going
And my mp3s of course. And no meals within an hour or two of a nap. And avoiding particularly unhealthy rubbish.

Originally Posted by Marcus

how long you have been on it without issues, etc.

I still have issues, because I'm not finished adapting. Thanks to my family xmas party
The thing is, that coffee tends to mask the sleep deprivation somewhat, so it's difficult to measure any issues. (pros and cons of coffee)

Originally Posted by Marcus

It sounds like one I might be interested in trying, I have actually done the double nap like you described on a few occasions when I had my schedule a bit out of wack to try and catch up without totally breaking my schedule.

Good to know
My previous attempts at a double nap were dodgy at best. The coffee nap and the making sure you get up to wash your face, etc really makes a difference here.

Originally Posted by Marcus

I tried the one you uploaded with the binarial beats in it and found it distracting

Me too actually. Someone specifically asked me to make it with binaurals, and I didn't particularly like the result either. My most recent version has binaurals, but it's much less distracting IMO. But I'll see if I can upload a version without the binaurals.

At some point I still want to try isochronic tones, but I'm skeptical about the idea now, as isochronic tones are even more distracting than binaurals as I understand. I suppose part of the problem is that the binaurals I used was just a binaural track that I combined with my mp3. Results would be better if I could actually modify the left and right channels of my mp3 instead of adding a noisy track to them.

Originally Posted by Netopalis

What do you think makes this work and Dymaxion not work?

Dymaxion has 30 minute naps. That's problem #1 IMO. I don't believe in naps longer than about 25 min maximum. I stick with my 20 min nap.
And a 30 minute coffee nap won't work too well either, because the caffeine kicks in faster than that. And the sugar even more so.
In fact, if you can stand it, I'd suggest coffee without the sugar, and then snack on something after your second nap.

Originally Posted by Netopalis

Despite a fewsuccesses, the general consensus has been that Dymaxion is the most

difficult schedule, yet you seem to think that this new schedule works quite easily. Any insight as to why?

The routine I suggested helps a lot. The coffee nap especially.
Also, the most dangerous time is at night, and most people have been avoiding coffee

Originally Posted by Netopalis

How does this new schedule affect the "timeless" feeling that some have mentioned?
It would seem to me like having these long periods of wakefulness would accentuate it, but I could be wrong....

Well, yes, that night period is longer, but it also means you get to concentrate on something and not be interrupted and be tempted to lie in after a nap at an ungodly hour.

Coffee helps a lot to keep going, and keeping yourself focussed on something engaging is vital.
In my case, my least mentally taxing activity is playing Fallout 3, which I can do for hours on end.
In fact, I'm more in danger of pushing my next nap too far when I get focussed on that game

When I'm feeling up to it, I do graphic illustrations and photo retouching, programming some exciting projects of mine and generally mucking around on the net or on forums.

Thanks again for the feedback, guys

- Greg

Originally Posted by me

Err... and that question of drawbacks got forgotten.
- The coffee masks your ability to judge how well you're doing.
- The long hours between naps mean that you ideally need to keep focussed on something that takes a while, at night when adapting at least. This takes a bit of planning and self control sometimes.
- The longer nap time means you need to find a slightly more comfy spot. At work this is a problem I have, it feels like they deliberately avoid any private spots :/ I usually sleep on my side (sometimes on my back), so for my second nap, I tend to sleep on the opposite side from the first.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that using a sleep mask in the day helps somewhat. And finding a suitable place to sleep, which can be challenging sometimes.

- Greg

"Firstly, this lucidman schedule isn't of my own conception, but an idea of somebody on DreamViews (a guy named tendomentis)"

I think you meant (a guy named luke)

Do you use coffee on every nap, or once a day?


Btw _massive, I am from Bulgaria, too.

Originally Posted by The Subatomic Level

"Firstly, this lucidman schedule isn't of my own conception, but an idea of somebody on DreamViews (a guy named tendomentis)"

I think you meant (a guy named luke)

Oh bugger... corrections in order. Sorry luke, somehow got my wires crossed.
Editting all the posts now

Yeah, just as well...
I dont want somebody else getting all the credit.
but I feel bad because I haven't really done much for my own schedule. Do you think I should start a blog instead of it being roughly mentioned in a forum?

Also, Placebo, I am interested to know where you have got those quotes from in that long post you did above...im interested in the mp3s and also what other people have to say about lucidman. And Placebo, are you getting lucids on lucidman yet?

Kudos to Reff for giving it a try, tell us how it goes buddy.

Myself, I have been doing lucidman for about 96 hours because oif troubles with alarms and not being fucked getting up, but now I feel I'm going to pull through the transition with no problems. So far, I have not encountered anything wierd or troublesome. I don't even feel that tired. Ever. But, it's still early days, very early days....Also, similarly to Reff, I do not drink coffee. I do do exercise though at least once per day (weights, jogging, unicycling).

EDIT: i'm just checking out your site now, placebo, nice...

Another note, sorry about the double post, but I must tell that I have never done polyphasic sleeping in my life. So, I am very new to having little naps (i have tried poly in the past and failed, and have done bi phasic and even a little tri phasic) so, I am not sure whether my adaption symptoms are similar to that of other types of polyphasic schedules. So, yeah, disclaimer..


EDIT: Err, PLacebo, man, reading your website you had the following quote:
"1) What do you think the lucidman schedule should be called? (a better name for it)"

A better name??!!? (sobs) What's wrong with "lucidman"? And, more importantly, why are you asking your followers about the name? I mean, if there is an issue with the name, surely it should be discussed here, of all places!! As I have already said, i am not a lucid dreamer, although I get the theory (I dont remember dreams much since all my crazy experimenting with sleeping schedules). From what I understand, the waking up for five minutes is similar (correct me if I'm wrong) to the WBTB technique. And from my own anecdotal evidence, two naps is more restorative than a single long naps (I know this is all the basics). So, I do believe that once the transition is over, "lucidman-ners" will find it easier to dream similarly (and hopefully more so because of the above reason) to that of uberman schedulers. Until then, I think the name should remain unless A) Somebody thinks the name is misleading in inducing lucid dreams or B) Somebody comes up with a better name. At this stage, its really only me, yourself, and maybe Reff, and possible a few others that have decided to give it a go. And we are all at early stages (incredible early stages) so I think it is a bit premature to be labelling lucidman a success or not at enducing lucid dreams, and thus, the name should stay until option A) or B) take place.
Thank-you.

After some experiment, I decided to give Lucidman (or Lucid-man?, like Spider-Man , that's how you called it the first time ) a go. The Trinity schedule didn't work for me, because, when I wake up from a 40-45 minute nap, I don't feel refreshed at all. Instead, I feel groggy and tired for atleast a couple of hours. And I don't quite like it, so I guess I should try the Lucidman. Only I'll have to become more efficient in napping.

Btw, Luke, the first time I decided I will try the Lucidman, I got my first Lucid I know it doesn't have much to do with Licidman in specific(I got the lucid 13 minutes into the first nap), but it's a cool coinsidence

Sorry if I gave the impression that I'm absolutely determined to change the name, but the reason I was interested in potential alternative names is for your reason (A) ... we don't know if it induces LDs any more than other schedules (yet)
The name might not need changing. Not sure yet, we'll see.

The quotes are from the polyphasic google email group, see here: http://groups.google.com/group/Polyphasic?hl=en

BTW, exercise is definitely a good idea, but try time it for sometime soon after a nap.

As for lucid dreams... to be totally honest, my LD abilities are at an alltime low at the moment. The simple answer is 'no, no lucids yet'.
But even when I do get something similar to a WILD with polyphasic sleep, I'm usually disappointed with it - they're not vivid and engrossing enough in my case. But I've always had problems with things like WILD.

Even if it induces less lds I think the guy who thought of the schedule should give it a name. And there are many things in history, which were named wrong after something and they still stay this way after that. Lucidman should stay lucidman. And Luke, take your schedule seriously before Placebo (no offence) takes all the credit.
And Placebo, do you take coffee on every pair of naps, or ?

Seems like I touched a nerve I never wanted to ... humble apologies.
I've mentioned the original creator's name a number of times now, both on the group, here and on my blog.

I'm not trying to claim credit for the idea, but I do want to develop it into something that works for me (and hopefully others)

We can leave the name as is. Perhaps what I should be wanting to name is the project, not the schedule.

And Placebo, do you take coffee on every pair of naps, or ?

Yes, but not always for the midday naps