Thread: Advice for Apple

Okay, I take your word for it. I was posting my first impressions of the mouse from the Apple store awhile ago, and since I myself don't use a Mighty Mouse, nor do I play computer games, you would know much better than I would if lifting the index finger actually impedes productivity. That narrows my qualms with the Mighty Mouse down to one.

Oh, a note to the original poster: please don't start a thread attacking a company's products before doing your research. Apple's current mice have (and have had for over two years) the ability to right-click. And if you prefer a different mouse from the one that comes with your computer, you can always unplug one and plug in the other.

Originally Posted by dsr

I find troubleshooting Mac OS X to be much easier than troubleshooting Windows. The former usually involves trashing .plist files or even a simple restart, whereas the latter often requires booting into Knoppix to back up the entire hard drive, running a virus/spyware/trojan/other malware scanner, and sometimes even erasing the entire hard drive and reinstalling from scratch.

What makes you say that? I've never had a hard drive problem in my 5+ years using Macs.

Haha I meant hardware wise they are a nightmare. It takes about 3 hours to open up a mac to check the RAM and only about 2 minutes in a PC. I have a part time job fixing student's computers here at school and most of the time when a mac comes in with a problem, it's probably the hard drive that died. Looks like you were lucky.

Originally Posted by Squall

Haha I meant hardware wise they are a nightmare. It takes about 3 hours to open up a mac to check the RAM and only about 2 minutes in a PC. I have a part time job fixing student's computers here at school and most of the time when a mac comes in with a problem, it's probably the hard drive that died. Looks like you were lucky.

Okay, no.

Hardware in a Mac Tower is as easy to swap out as any PC. The iMac RAM is on the bottom of the display and takes 5 seconds to remove. What's more is that Mac hardware components are consistent. You stick to the same brands and you get the same results. This is where PCs get their hardware issues.

Sure, you can rig a bunch of crap to your Honda to make it quicker. All sorts of name brands out there to get your parts from, or you can get a Mustang thats just as quick, stock. Difference is, your going to have compatibility issues with the Honda (PC).

Also, Troubleshooting by definition means to simply finding the issue. Nothing to do with fixing the problem, but regardless both are easier on a Mac.

Repost.

And for the iMacs I believe that there are just one or two screws holding the case together.

Originally Posted by WhiteUnit

Okay, no.

Hardware in a Mac Tower is as easy to swap out as any PC. The iMac RAM is on the bottom of the display and takes 5 seconds to remove. What's more is that Mac hardware components are consistent. You stick to the same brands and you get the same results. This is where PCs get their hardware issues.

My bad. I meant Macs as in laptops. Being in college where everyone has laptops, I've gotten used to a desktopless world lol. Anyway that's what we fix, and trust me, it's a pain.

Originally Posted by Squall

My bad. I meant Macs as in laptops. Being in college where everyone has laptops, I've gotten used to a desktopless world lol. Anyway that's what we fix, and trust me, it's a pain.

Yeah, well, I dont know jack bout building laptops. So, your prolly right there.

BTW, you draw that image of Squall and Rinoa?

Actually, the newest generation of Mac laptops, or at least the MacBook and I assume the MacBook Pro, make it really easy to change the RAM and hard drive. Just remove the battery and 3 screws.

I love when people say windows (apparently pc=windows) is plagued with virus and spyware. The last time I had my pc crashed or got infected with something was years ago when I was a kid.

Tomorrow I'm buying a 15" notebook for €1150. A 15" macbook pro, with specs a lot inferior, would cost €2299!

Sure, macs are simple and may be better for some. But you can't deny that pcs have a lot of more potential and more freedom with hardware and software choice.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Tomorrow I'm buying a 15" notebook for €1150. A 15" macbook pro, with specs a lot inferior, would cost €2299!

Why don't you compare the specs with the regular MacBook? And please compare them on this board so we can see the MacBook's inferiority with our own eyes.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

I love when people say windows (apparently pc=windows) is plagued with virus and spyware. The last time I had my pc crashed or got infected with something was years ago when I was a kid.

Tomorrow I'm buying a 15" notebook for €1150. A 15" macbook pro, with specs a lot inferior, would cost €2299!

Sure, macs are simple and may be better for some. But you can't deny that pcs have a lot of more potential and more freedom with hardware and software choice.

"Freedom of hardware." Yeah... already talked about that. Your freedom of hardware is why PCs can hardly run half the time. Incompatability.

And dont just throw up a random number without a name brand. Link the page you built it on. Whats the brand? And dont compare it to the Pro, because you know thats more expensive. Make sure you add in the price of your antivirus thats gonna suck up half your system resources, too. And if your anything smart you'll stay well away from Vista.

Also, the up side about Macs coming already built: They dont depreciate near as fast as PCs, so you can already get a large portion of your money back when you upgrade.

Also, your "software" freedom statement no longer holds since Mac went Intel based. I have Vista boot camped on my Mac right now (sad to say, however I did tech support for its launch earlier this year, so I had to have it). And even IF I didnt want to reboot into Vista, I can run parallels and use it at the same time.

Yes, I could get a faster PC for a bit cheaper, and maybe I would go that route, but unfortunately I like using the internets and the two just dont mix.

Originally Posted by dsr

Why don't you compare the specs with the regular MacBook? And please compare them on this board so we can see the MacBook's inferiority with our own eyes.

Well, the regular mac book specs suck and the screen is small so I figured the mac book pro is better for a comparison.

The most expensive mac book pro (€2600) vs the most expensive compal fl90 (€1600)


CPU
Mac - intel core 2 duo 2.4ghz 4mb
Compal - intel core 2 duo t7700 2.4ghz 4mb

It's a tie here.


HD
Mac - 160gb
Compal - 160gb 7200rpm

It doesn't state the mac's hd rpm. Since it can either be 5400 or 7200, it's either a tie or compal wins.


Screen
Mac wins (screen is bigger and has higher resolution)

Memory
Both have DDRII 667mhz, but..
Mac - 2gb
Compal - 4gb

Compal wins.


GPU

Same on both but compal's has double of the memory plus 512mb TC.

Compal wins.


It's memory and gpu vs screen.
I think just by that the mac book pro loses. But, the compal has more interface exits (including vga and s-video) plus it's €1000 cheaper, so it´s a big defeat for the mac.


#EDIT# (saw white unit's post after)

"PCs can hardly run half the time. Incompatability."

Hmm never heard of that around here. A friend of mine has been having problems with overheating but besides that nothing.

Here are the pages for the previous comparison:
http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=748
http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=736

"Make sure you add in the price of your antivirus thats gonna suck up half your system resources, too."

Sorry, I don't use norton. I use avast antivirus, it's light, it's efective, and it's free for home use.

I'm sure you get a "large portion" of your money back.

Lack of freedom sucks, you get stuck to a brand. In this case, a very greedy one.

The software freedom argument does hold. Take a look at gaming for example.

I don't know why pcs and internet wouldn't mix. I use firefox and I do just fine, I even hang around those crack and serials sites that are loaded with virus and spyware. The very few times that something gets through (2 or 3 times in the last couple of years), avast takes care of it.


I'm sorry for the disorganized post but it's late and I'm in a hurry to go to sleep so there's no time to quote everything.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Memory
Both have DDRII 667mhz, but..
Mac - 2gb
Compal - 4gb

Compal wins.

I got a problem with this. Are you sure that the Compal has 4gb of memory? Most PCs are still 32-bit and that would exceed the limit of memory. Vista has a 64 bit version, but (from what my friends have told me, I might be wrong,) won't run in a backwards mode, so you have to find special 64 bit software.

Leopard is only 64 bit and I think Tiger was too, but they have a backwards compatible mode that runs those 32 bit programs.

Macs also require less memory, most programs have smaller footprints than their Windows counterparts.


When talking about price, make sure that you compensate for those add-ons. MS-Office: $399 (http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/pr...754511033.aspx), iWork: $79. Antivirus software: $79 (I think) + subscription, Macs don't need one. Someone already said this.



Got a question for everyone that I can't figure out. Macs have always had inferior graphics cards compared to equally priced PCs, yet they dominate the creative market and always have. Why is that? The art building at my school is 100% Mac, the computer graphics courses are either Mac or Sun (advanced courses are 100% Mac.) Photoshop has been ported to Windows as well most of the other creative tools, I could never figure it out.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

When talking about price, make sure that you compensate for those add-ons. MS-Office: $399 (http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/pr...754511033.aspx), iWork: $79. Antivirus software: $79 (I think) + subscription, Macs don't need one. Someone already said this.

Got a question for everyone that I can't figure out. Macs have always had inferior graphics cards compared to equally priced PCs, yet they dominate the creative market and always have. Why is that? The art building at my school is 100% Mac, the computer graphics courses are either Mac or Sun (advanced courses are 100% Mac.) Photoshop has been ported to Windows as well most of the other creative tools, I could never figure it out.

There are great free AntiVirus programs out there. I don't know anyone who pays for one.
MS Office Pro is $400. That has Access and Business Contact Manager
MS Home and Student, the word/excel/outlook/powerpoint edition, is $150 and can be (legally) used on 3 computers

Mac started out as creative-person computers when MS had DOS. Now that PCs are better for cheaper, it doens't matter because the industry got used to Macs years ago and don't want to move to another platform.

I am sure the compal has 4gb of memory, I'm pretty sure the limit on bit system is 4gb and not 2gb. In a compal forum this model is being discussed and a some people have already bought it, the "esgotado" over the image means that the store has sold out the score on that one.

By the way, there is openoffice (www.openoffice.org) which you can use for free instead of microsoft office. It's the same thing, or even better.
Paying $400 for microsoft office is plain robbery imo.

[off-topic]
I've had 6 hours of sleep and now will do my daily wild attempt, today is the day.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

I am sure the compal has 4gb of memory, I'm pretty sure the limit on bit system is 4gb and not 2gb.

on 32bit OS's, there's an address space limit of 4gb (2^32)

but bear in mind, memory isn't the only thing (far from it) that your system needs to address - there's all motherboard connections (processor, co-processor, PCI bus, IDE, SATA, USB, parallel port, serial port, PS/2 ports, etc., etc.)

these other things need a fair amount of address space

in reality, 3.5Gb is about the limit of addressable Ram in 32bit OS's
(that's ~3.5Gb ram + ~0.5 of other stuff = 4Gb)

I never said that I thought the limit was 2 GB, like Ynot said, the limit is around 3.5.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Well, the regular mac book specs suck and the screen is small so I figured the mac book pro is better for a comparison.

The most expensive mac book pro (€2600) vs the most expensive compal fl90 (€1600)


CPU
Mac - intel core 2 duo 2.4ghz 4mb
Compal - intel core 2 duo t7700 2.4ghz 4mb

It's a tie here.


HD
Mac - 160gb
Compal - 160gb 7200rpm

It doesn't state the mac's hd rpm. Since it can either be 5400 or 7200, it's either a tie or compal wins.


Screen
Mac wins (screen is bigger and has higher resolution)

Memory
Both have DDRII 667mhz, but..
Mac - 2gb
Compal - 4gb

Compal wins.


GPU

Same on both but compal's has double of the memory plus 512mb TC.

Compal wins.


It's memory and gpu vs screen.
I think just by that the mac book pro loses. But, the compal has more interface exits (including vga and s-video) plus it's €1000 cheaper, so it´s a big defeat for the mac.


#EDIT# (saw white unit's post after)

"PCs can hardly run half the time. Incompatability."

Hmm never heard of that around here. A friend of mine has been having problems with overheating but besides that nothing.

Here are the pages for the previous comparison:
http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=748
http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=736

"Make sure you add in the price of your antivirus thats gonna suck up half your system resources, too."

Sorry, I don't use norton. I use avast antivirus, it's light, it's efective, and it's free for home use.

I'm sure you get a "large portion" of your money back.

Lack of freedom sucks, you get stuck to a brand. In this case, a very greedy one.

The software freedom argument does hold. Take a look at gaming for example.


I don't know why pcs and internet wouldn't mix. I use firefox and I do just fine, I even hang around those crack and serials sites that are loaded with virus and spyware. The very few times that something gets through (2 or 3 times in the last couple of years), avast takes care of it.

Okay, just as I thought, some foreign off-brand system.

And take a look at gaming? Dude, did you just read my first sentence and stop there. Boot Camp or Parallels with Windows fixes that. Intel based processor. All programs work. And if you happen to be a WoW player, it looks and works WAY better on Mac than PC.

And BTW, its not Mac's fault that Microsoft is a law firm disguised as a software company. Microsoft pays companies to only make their software FOR the Windows.

You said you've never heard of incompatibility on PC (first off, LOL) and then you gave an example of it? You friend has rigged up his comp with so much crap that he needs another power supply. Incompatibility.

Also, you may resolve all your problems with freeware, but that doesn't stop the antivirus from sucking up your system resources. It's that fact that PCs even NEED AV that proves they don't mix with the net.

Stuck with a single brand, yes. But why is this one particularly greedy? Because they are big? No. Your just talking smack.

And yes, Windows can only see 3 gigs RAM, and whats more, the applications in it can only max @ 2 gigs.

Also, I didn't go Mac until the Intel processors came out in the end of '06, I made the switch because I was fed up with Windows. I also work tech support for Adobe which has about a 50/50 split between Mac and PC, and guess what? I hear people switching to Mac all day, and I'm yet to here a Mac user switch to PC.

Anyway, Im at work right now so I cant elaborate more... I have PCs to fix.

Oh, speaking off MacBook Pro, here is the number 1 on Digg today.

http://flickr.com/photos/jefseb/1396761866/
http://digg.com/apple/How_does_a_Mac...ng_at_once_PIC

Not only did every single app on the computer open, he was able to Exposé it.

Originally Posted by WhiteUnit

Okay, just as I thought, some foreign off-brand system.

And take a look at gaming? Dude, did you just read my first sentence and stop there. Boot Camp or Parallels with Windows fixes that. Intel based processor. All programs work. And if you happen to be a WoW player, it looks and works WAY better on Mac than PC.

First off, it's not "some foreign off-brand system". Compal is one of the leading brands in selling notebooks, last time I checked it came in second place right after asus I think.

So you can emulate windows, that's great. But it's still easier to just run the software on a pc.
It's possible that wow runs better on a mac but I don't know what you mean by "working" better. I don't play wow btw.

And BTW, its not Mac's fault that Microsoft is a law firm disguised as a software company. Microsoft pays companies to only make their software FOR the Windows.

It makes more sense to think that the companies make their software for window because it has a larger number of users. It's just not paid license software either, there's a lot of freeware too.

You said you've never heard of incompatibility on PC (first off, LOL) and then you gave an example of it? You friend has rigged up his comp with so much crap that he needs another power supply. Incompatibility.

Hardware incompatibility? No, I've never heard of that. Its expected that one checks compatibility when choosing hardware for a pc build.
My friend has a pc with old hardware(gpu 5 years old, everything else 6 years old), similar to mine which has a slightly better gpu and had it's motherboard and hd replaced along with 512ram added some months ago. One of the fans broke and he had to replace it, that's it.

Also, you may resolve all your problems with freeware, but that doesn't stop the antivirus from sucking up your system resources. It's that fact that PCs even NEED AV that proves they don't mix with the net.

lol? While antivirus like norton do suck up resources, with avast it's insignificant. Unless you have a really old pc, it doesn't make a difference.

The fact that a lot of virus exist for windows it's just proof of it's popularity. Rest assured that if some day macs become as popular they too will end up needing anti-virus.

Stuck with a single brand, yes. But why is this one particularly greedy? Because they are big? No. Your just talking smack.

They are greedy because they overprice their products, and it's not just with macs. You could say it's even worse with the ipods, not only are they pricier than other mp3 players but they also come with less functions... which you can add by buying the right accessory.

And yes, Windows can only see 3 gigs RAM, and whats more, the applications in it can only max @ 2 gigs.

If it's windows 32-bit, yes. Although 64-bit is a bit useless right now. (pun intended)

Also, I didn't go Mac until the Intel processors came out in the end of '06, I made the switch because I was fed up with Windows. I also work tech support for Adobe which has about a 50/50 split between Mac and PC, and guess what? I hear people switching to Mac all day, and I'm yet to here a Mac user switch to PC.

Anyway, Im at work right now so I cant elaborate more... I have PCs to fix.

I can see some people that would be better off with a mac, but those are usually people not well versed in computers. If you know what you're doing then pcs have much more potential.

Bottom line: I never have problems with pcs, they give me more freedom and they are cheaper. I don't see any reason to switch for mac when pc offers more than whatever they do.

That expose of all of the programs on Mac running at once it really cool.

iPods have less functionality compared to what? I've never seen a Creative or Sony mp3 player that had nearly as many features as the iPod.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

First off, it's not "some foreign off-brand system". Compal is one of the leading brands in selling notebooks, last time I checked it came in second place right after asus I think.

So you can emulate windows, that's great. But it's still easier to just run the software on a pc.
It's possible that wow runs better on a mac but I don't know what you mean by "working" better. I don't play wow btw.

Never heard of Compal OR Asus, and no one has called me with one either. Maybe it's big in its own foreign lands, but not here in the states.

It makes more sense to think that the companies make their software for window because it has a larger number of users. It's just not paid license software either, there's a lot of freeware too.

No,no. You misread. Microsoft PAYS companies to only make their software for PC. Its not hard to program for Mac. Its called whoring the market. Microsoft is renown for being a corporate monopoly machine, and is the REAL greedy company. Also there is a lot of freeware written for Mac only, once again neutralizing your point.

Hardware incompatibility? No, I've never heard of that. Its expected that one checks compatibility when choosing hardware for a pc build.
My friend has a pc with old hardware(gpu 5 years old, everything else 6 years old), similar to mine which has a slightly better gpu and had it's motherboard and hd replaced along with 512ram added some months ago. One of the fans broke and he had to replace it, that's it.

Haven't heard of incompatibilities? Welcome to the Computer world, you clearly haven't been here long.

lol? While antivirus like norton do suck up resources, with avast it's insignificant. Unless you have a really old pc, it doesn't make a difference.

The fact that a lot of virus exist for windows it's just proof of it's popularity. Rest assured that if some day macs become as popular they too will end up needing anti-virus.

Cool, so I've heard this point before. So your trying to tell me there are more people writing viruses for PCs? And yet, Apple throws up big advertising campaigns about how they don't get viruses, even without AV. And you think they aren't a target? Sorry, your just making that up out of thin air. Maybe more people write viruses for PCs because it so easy.

And BTW, there is no question of popularity with Windows, but there is also no question that Mac population is aggressively catching up.

They are greedy because they overprice their products, and it's not just with macs. You could say it's even worse with the ipods, not only are they pricier than other mp3 players but they also come with less functions... which you can add by buying the right accessory.

Over pricing is an opinion. If they are so overpriced why is iPod the most popular choice of MP3 Player? Kind of wierd.. overpriced = popular? Microsoft is the biggest Market Whore in history, another widely known fact, so where do you get off calling Mac a Greedy company?

And since were getting off topic with other products, let's take Xbox for example. Halo has a contract to only be created with Xbox 360 and no other systems (the only thing thats keeping Xbox in production), but thats not too bad. However, Halo 2 for the computer is ONLY compatible with VISTA, forcing you to purchase it.

Now lets look at the price of MS products-
Vista
Home Basic (good luck getting your apps to work on this)- $100; New $200
Home Premium- $160; New $240
Home Ultimate- $260; New $400
This is what it will cost you to upgrade to Vista so that it can totally jack up your system.
All Mac OS ups are $100, and you don't have to get the dumbed down version, and don't have to wait for SP2 before it works.

Zune 30 gb -$200 and it wont work with Mac (Greedy Microsoft doesn't want to share) and it doesnt work with 64 bit either.
iPod 160 gb -$249 Works with everything.

If it's windows 32-bit, yes. Although 64-bit is a bit useless right now. (pun intended)




I can see some people that would be better off with a mac, but those are usually people not well versed in computers. If you know what you're doing then pcs have much more potential.

Bottom line: I never have problems with pcs, they give me more freedom and they are cheaper. I don't see any reason to switch for mac when pc offers more than whatever they do.

And for the grand finale you said what I wanted you to say all along.

" I can see some people that would be better off with a mac, but those are usually people not well versed in computers."
"If you know what you're doing then pcs have much more potential."

Yes, if you don't know how to hold a crap computer together, you should switch to Mac which will work no matter what.

And by saying "whatever they do" only indicates your own lack of experience with Mac, and obvious denial of any evidence that they may be better.

Smart people say, "Hmm.. this Mac thing is making a bunch of noise. I should see what it does." Then they often get hooked.

Stupid PC Zealots grab hold of their self built little PC "Honda" and simply scream "IT CANT BE BETTER, IT CANT BE!!!" While never even trying it to find out.

Bottom line: I don't care what you experienced. The proof is in the pudding, PC sucks even if you save a few bucks.

Originally Posted by WhiteUnit

Yeah, well, I dont know jack bout building laptops. So, your prolly right there.

BTW, you draw that image of Squall and Rinoa?

I didn't actually. I found it somewhere a long time ago. Haven't been able to find it since.

Originally Posted by dsr

Actually, the newest generation of Mac laptops, or at least the MacBook and I assume the MacBook Pro, make it really easy to change the RAM and hard drive. Just remove the battery and 3 screws.

Yeah we're getting more of those this year. It'll be considerably easier to fix once they start breaking.

I share Scattlebrain's opinion on overpricing. I got a fully featured (sub?-)nano-sized Sandisk Sansa e260 for marginally more cash than an Ipod shuffle, which has half the capacity, no micro-SD slot, and, oh wait, NO FUCKING SCREEN.

That's not only expensive, it's shit.