Thread: Advice for Apple

First off, this is a discussion about Apple vs Microsoft. But since you want to throw your in your MP3 player in here, lets discuss that, too.

First off: You mean THIS Sansa e260?

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Cata...3_Players.aspx

I hope not. Because your comparing two different classes of MP3 Player. Why are you talking about the shuffle? Talk about the iPod. It's like your comparing a truck to a car.

"My Ford F-250 costs marginally more than an Eclipse, but it also has a bigger engine, a trailer hitch and the Eclipse DOESNT EVEN HAVE A FLATBED."

Well of course the Eclipse doesn't have a flat bed, its a car. And of course the iPod Shuffle doesn't have a screen, its marketed to be the smallest possible MP3 player available.

Here is the one you SHOULD of compared to:

http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/specs.html

So here's the rundown.

Screen size:
-iPod Nano 2 inch screen; 204 DPI
-Sansa 1.8 inch screen; screen resolution not given (I would be embarrassed, too)

Disk size:
-iPod Nano 8 gig @ $149
-Sansa 8 gig @ $149 (can be swapped out with cards made by Sansa)

Battery life:
-iPod Nano 24 hours audio, 5 hours Video
-Sansa 20 hours audio, Can't play video

Maybe if Sansa posted more specs of its product I could go on, but that about sums it up. But, I understand that it is a smart business decision to not put information on your website thats just going to make your product look bad....

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

I'm only 17 turning 18 but I've used pcs since I was a kid and only then did I ever had problems.

Sorry but you're the one who doesn't seem to have been around pcs for long. Although compal is a bit occult (I myself only discovered it recently despite it being one of the biggest notebook producers), asus on the other hand is very well known, not only in the notebook business but also as a motherboard and gpu manufacturer.

Before I made my decision about which notebook to buy I lurked around some forums, and even in those with US users the compal laptops were mentioned, the asus too (obviously). Everyone knows the gaming notebooks Asus G1 and G2 for example.




How you're supposed to be so sure about that I don't know. But you can't deny that either way popularity has a big weight. If macs were more widely used than pcs, the companies would have more profit selling software for it than taking bribes from microsoft.




See, the thing is, nobody cares about mac. The number of pc users HEAVILY outweights the number of mac users, it's obvious the target are pc users, mainly the ones with windows. The general hate for microsoft may also play a role here.




The only thing I can say here is that there is a world outside of the US. And I can safely bet that statement doesn't hold true around the world.




The ipod is popular because of "style", but "style" doesn't make your mp3 better.
I bought a sansa e280, at the time it cost me the same as a 4gb ipod nano.
Guess what? It has 8gb, the screen is slightly bigger, it can be used as a mass storage device, the battery can be removed easily, has an micro-sd slot, it doesn't force you to use a certain app *COUGH*itunes*COUGH* and, excepting europe (some legal complications sandisk got into, unlucky me), it brings also a radio tuner. Oh, it brings a sleek "skin"-bag too, which I lost today.
The only "down side" is that it's a bit thicker than the nano.

FYI, I said apple is greedy but I never said microsoft isn't. The only difference between the two is that apple makes ridiculous advertisements.
Microsoft may have a big monopoly but it doesn't own "pc", I choose my hardware and choose if I want to use their software.


By the way, you shouldn't bother taking the windows price into account because nobody buys windows. =p
If you really want to go through the legal road there are a load of linux distributions for free.



lmao
Don't twist the meaning. I didn't claim lack of knowledge about mac's capabilities. It's true I lack experience with them, but I know for a fact there's nothing they can do that pcs can't. (well, I don't know if pcs can emulate OS X but why would I want to do that?)




You don't tire of claiming mac is better. Yet, up to now you failed to provide a good argument besides saying macs are stable and assuming pcs are always unstable.

Before finishing I would just like to correct: you don't save "a few bucks", you save a few hundreds of bucks.

http://www.asus.com/

Notice how all the little dots are in other countries except two. And by No.1.. you mean you read it off this page. And its quoted by wall street journal in Asia.

Oh, and here is your Compal:
http://www.compal.com/index_En.htm
Complete with cheesy web design!

You say I don't have an argument? I'm the only one between us that lists sources and facts. Don't pull the Linux crap after you complained about being able to use Windows-Only software. I will be the first to say Linux owns Mac, but all your statements are Microsoft related. You dont have ground to walk on.

I'm done talkin to ya, kid. I was PC and went Mac, nothin your gonna tell me I don't know. However, your all PC and never touched Mac. Half your statements are personal opinions about something you never knew anything about.

Your 17, still in high school, and are still controlled by the bandwagon. Im 20, and have been working tech support for 2 years for both Microsoft and Adobe, I know what the user demographics are. Mac is on a strong comeback whether your going to open your eyes or not. Your owned. And my weekend just started, peace.

Scatterbrain, why don't you check out the regular MacBook on Apple's site and see if it looks good to you: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...acbook/macbook
Starting at $1099 USD (that's €780 as of today) with a 2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo CPU, the MacBook doesn't seem so overpriced to me.

How could I forget the "you're just a kid" and "I win because I know better" arguments, really original.

I'm turning 18 in 9 days and next monday I'll start having classes at university so cut the kid crap. You're just 2 years older.

You want sources?
"Compal
The world's 2nd largest laptop maker, Compal has designed and built laptops for all of the major brands as well as custom builders for over 22 years."
That's the description given in the compal discussion board on the forums from notebookreview.com (http://forum.notebookreview.com/)

They also have the asus discussion board right next to the apple board, really occult.


I don't see the logic in a windows vs mac discussion, windows vs OS X would have made more sense don't you think? My point is that personal computer > macintosh.

You can quit denying or evading the facts:
- pcs can be stable;
- pcs are cheaper than macs;
- there is nothing that can be done on a mac and can't be done on a pc.
Did I miss something?


About the mp3, your comparison is useless. You got the facts wrong. The e260 only has 6gb so you should have compared the 8gb nano with the e280. Also, the e-series DO play videos.

At the time i bought the e280 this new generation of nanos wasn't released yet so like I said, for the same price of a 4gb nano (with no video or the other features and a smaller screen) you could get a e280.
Now this 3rd generation of the ipod nano (released just this month) does have a bigger screen (but is also overall is a little bigger) but it costs €200, while the e280 dropped to just €120. With the cheaper price the e280 still has the edge with the mic, sd card and removable battery imo.
(just to make sure you don't whine I checked the prices on the us amazon: ipod $200, sansa $120. europe always gets ripped off..)

dsr
It should cost €780 but we always get ripped off here when it comes to electronic stuff, they usually just switch the $ with a € and voila, there's the new price.

I'm seeing that macbook with prices around €980. The compal ifl90 I'm going to buy, is just 170€ extra and has an hd with 160gb, 2gb ram memory, 15" screen and a much better gpu, the cpu is the only thing equal.

The compal doesn't come with a OS, it would cost 100€ extra if I wanted windows vista home premium with it (still worth it comparing the specs). But you can assume I will use the license from my previous computer, or that I use linux.

#edit#
I took a quick look at the hp, acer and asus notebooks with the same price as the macbook. They all bring OS and some software with them and are better than the macbook (not as good as the compal though).

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

It should cost €780 but we always get ripped off here when it comes to electronic stuff, they usually just switch the $ with a € and voila, there's the new price.

Wow, that sucks. So I guess there are some advantages in living here in the U.S., even with a @#$%ing idiot running the country.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

I took a quick look at the hp, acer and asus notebooks with the same price as the macbook. They all bring OS and some software with them and are better than the macbook (not as good as the compal though).

Can we please see the links to these laptops?

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

I don't see the logic in a windows vs mac discussion, windows vs OS X would have made more sense don't you think?

Agreed, but this thread morphed (from an ill-researched attack on one-button mice) into a debate about Apple hardware. In comparing a PC (as in any non-Apple computer that probably has an x86 or x86-64 CPU) to a Mac, it does make sense to discuss the OSes available on each. I'll take a PC desktop running FreeBSD or Arch Linux to a Mac desktop with comparable hardware any day, but comparing Mac laptops running Mac OS X to PC laptops running Windows XP or Vista, the former wins hands down, at least for me.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

How could I forget the "you're just a kid" and "I win because I know better" arguments, really original.

I'm turning 18 in 9 days and next monday I'll start having classes at university so cut the kid crap. You're just 2 years older.

You want sources?
"Compal
The world's 2nd largest laptop maker, Compal has designed and built laptops for all of the major brands as well as custom builders for over 22 years."
That's the description given in the compal discussion board on the forums from notebookreview.com (http://forum.notebookreview.com/)

They also have the asus discussion board right next to the apple board, really occult.


I don't see the logic in a windows vs mac discussion, windows vs OS X would have made more sense don't you think? My point is that personal computer > macintosh.

You can quit denying or evading the facts:
- pcs can be stable;
- pcs are cheaper than macs;
- there is nothing that can be done on a mac and can't be done on a pc.
Did I miss something?


About the mp3, your comparison is useless. You got the facts wrong. The e260 only has 6gb so you should have compared the 8gb nano with the e280. Also, the e-series DO play videos.

At the time i bought the e280 this new generation of nanos wasn't released yet so like I said, for the same price of a 4gb nano (with no video or the other features and a smaller screen) you could get a e280.
Now this 3rd generation of the ipod nano (released just this month) does have a bigger screen (but is also overall is a little bigger) but it costs €200, while the e280 dropped to just €120. With the cheaper price the e280 still has the edge with the mic, sd card and removable battery imo.
(just to make sure you don't whine I checked the prices on the us amazon: ipod $200, sansa $120. europe always gets ripped off..)

Facts wrong? I said e260, but meant 280. However I DID list the price of the 8 gig drive and compared with the 8 gig. READ THE COMMENT RETARD.

And yeah, your a kid as soon as you said 17 almost 18. Why not just say 17 and a half? Your still in school and do NOT have a tech related job, and have no experience with Macs in any way shape or form.

Heres some more edjucation for ya, kid. Mac=Apple=OSX even if Microsoft doesnt not = PC. Mac OWNS OSX, Microsoft does NOT own PC. The only way a PC is worth anything is with Linux.

I dont really care what they charge you in Europe, because I dont live there. Microsoft and Apple are both American based companies, and I live in the US. And just because you link to some random message board I'm suppose to take that as fact? Also I just LINKED to Apple where the iPod @ 8 gigs is $149, and your e280 is @ 149 as well. Just cuz you checked Amazon doesn't count for jack. Stated retail price by the manufactuer is all that counts.

And yes, there is something a Mac can do that PC cant. Macs can have OSX and Windows and Linux. Try putting OSX on a PC it wont be easy.

Your inexperienced, you cleaving for ground to stand on, and you got no evidence (at least from any legitamit resources) backing you up. Game over, kid. I dont care what system you blow your cash on, I have left a well defended point posted here, and I'm through with you. Peace.

Originally Posted by WhiteUnit

Cool, so I've heard this point before. So your trying to tell me there are more people writing viruses for PCs? And yet, Apple throws up big advertising campaigns about how they don't get viruses, even without AV. And you think they aren't a target? Sorry, your just making that up out of thin air. Maybe more people write viruses for PCs because it so easy.

And BTW, there is no question of popularity with Windows, but there is also no question that Mac population is aggressively catching up.
Over pricing is an opinion. If they are so overpriced why is iPod the most popular choice of MP3 Player? Kind of wierd.. overpriced = popular? Microsoft is the biggest Market Whore in history, another widely known fact, so where do you get off calling Mac a Greedy company?

Hacking is illegal. Therefore hackers need a compelling reward for the risk. Why target < 10&#37; of the computers in the world when you could target 90%?
It's not that it's easy, it's that it pays off better. If Mac actually got a larger user base, they'd get viruses too.

iPod is a fad. People are willing to pay lots of money for "cool" things. Even if it is overpriced.

Originally Posted by WhiteUnit

Facts wrong? I said e260, but meant 280. However I DID list the price of the 8 gig drive and compared with the 8 gig. READ THE COMMENT RETARD.

And yeah, your a kid as soon as you said 17 almost 18. Why not just say 17 and a half? Your still in school and do NOT have a tech related job, and have no experience with Macs in any way shape or form.

Heres some more edjucation for ya, kid. Mac=Apple=OSX even if Microsoft doesnt not = PC. Mac OWNS OSX, Microsoft does NOT own PC. The only way a PC is worth anything is with Linux.

I dont really care what they charge you in Europe, because I dont live there. Microsoft and Apple are both American based companies, and I live in the US. And just because you link to some random message board I'm suppose to take that as fact? Also I just LINKED to Apple where the iPod @ 8 gigs is $149, and your e280 is @ 149 as well. Just cuz you checked Amazon doesn't count for jack. Stated retail price by the manufactuer is all that counts.

And yes, there is something a Mac can do that PC cant. Macs can have OSX and Windows and Linux. Try putting OSX on a PC it wont be easy.

Your inexperienced, you cleaving for ground to stand on, and you got no evidence (at least from any legitamit resources) backing you up. Game over, kid. I dont care what system you blow your cash on, I have left a well defended point posted here, and I'm through with you. Peace.

You DID state the facts wrong, you said the sansa couldn't show videos and it CAN, so stfu pisslips.

Why would anyone say they're 17 and a half when they're not even 2 weeks away from their birthday?

Sure thing, trust the price on the manufacturer's site and not the price on of a well known online store

Mac=appl=osx what's new? That's where the whole no freedom argument comes from.

I figured a notebook site and forum, full of people dedicated to notebooks, would have some credibility! Silly me.

Read the posts. I already mentioned that pcs probably can't emulate OSX, but the again, who would want to do that if there's not anything that macs can do that pcs can't?

Cleaving for ground? Your the one always evading the question and ignoring the facts. You couldn't give me one single reason why macs are so great and even worth higher price. You just keep shooting the ad hominem argument.

You continue insisting I'm a kid. "You're still in school", yes, "school" which you didn't attend to. In five years I'll be a kid with a degree and you'll still be wiping apple's shoes in your tech job.

Originally Posted by dsr

Can we please see the links to these laptops?

http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=766
http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=613
http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=685

I think these were the ones.

Of course there is nothing Macs can do that PCs can't. Microsoft always tries to emulate the Mac. If you can't innovate, imitate. Let's not forget, Windows 1.0 was pirated from the original Mac. The imitation is never as good as the original though, lets see Windows integrate all of it's programs seamlessly. Lets see how well it syncs it's calendar, address book, buddy list, and email programs. How about Microsoft's office suite with Microsoft's cheaper alternative. iWork can read every document created by AppleWorks, can MS Word read an MS Works document? Nope.

Vista finally added widgets and voiceover, Macs have had those for 23 years. They've also added voice control (I think,) a feature of Mac's since OS 8.

Let's see a PC go one week without leaving dead links in it's registry, or de-fragment its files on the fly. Let's have Microsoft give it's coders easy to use APIs and workshops to show them how to use them. How about unifying the system to 64 bits with a backwards compatible mode.

Lets see them give us a way to close a program without individually closing every single window for it.

[Not sure if they can handle this or not, please experiment for me]Lets see Windows open all of its programs at once with that aggressive page swapping and still be able to Expose. (Time it.) The aggressive page swapping out performed the lazy one once upon a time, but not anymore.

EDIT: I just did that experiment on my Mac, it took 3 and a half minutes to open all 34 programs and 13 folders in my applications folder (Including the resource hog iListen.) Everything is still very reactive (I'm typing this while they are all still running,) when I click on one of them in the dock it comes to the top immediately, expose runs at normal speed too. Now if you'll excuse me I gotta hit command q for a while.

Originally Posted by Webmaster

Hacking is illegal.

You mean "cracking is illegal." Please don't use them interchangeably because the term "hacker" refers to a good person who creates software for others. A hacker builds things; a cracker tears them down.

Originally Posted by Webmaster

Why target < 10% of the computers in the world when you could target 90%?
It's not that it's easy, it's that it pays off better. If Mac actually got a larger user base, they'd get viruses too.

This argument has been used many times by ignorant Windows fanboys or Mac-bashers. Please don't be one of them. Mac OS X isn't immune to cracking (see OpenBSD or Slackware if you care that much about security), but it doesn't get viruses. Part of the reason is that its Darwin subsystem is based on FreeBSD/UNIX, and part of the reason is that Windows is just inherently flawed and vulnerable to viruses.

Why would someone want to write a virus for UNIX OSes? Well let's see, over 70% of web servers run some variation of UNIX, so there is much more incentive for criminals to create viruses or trojans that target UNIX (including Mac OS X) than there is for Windows. In fact, there is almost no incentive for targeting Windows except for the fact that the majority of desktop users use it. But that's not an incentive because the virus creator doesn't get anything in return (unless he's a sadist who belongs in a mental institution). If a cracker has any kind of incentive for writing a computer virus that doesn't target web servers it would be a Mac-basher (for some reason, there seem to be a lot of people with an irrational almost hatred for the company Apple) who would love to see the look on Steve Job's face when a virus crippled Mac users just like they have been doing to Windows users since the inception of Windows.

In summary, if anything, there is more of an incentive to target Macintosh computers, the first reason being to attack web servers for personal gain and the second reason being that if you are crazy enough to write a virus that targets Windows for no personal gain, you're probably crazy enough to belong to that aforementioned "Mac-haters" group.

Originally Posted by dsr

Why would someone want to write a virus for UNIX OSes? Well let's see, over 70% of web servers run some variation of UNIX, so there is much more incentive for criminals to create viruses or trojans that target UNIX (including Mac OS X) than there is for Windows

I've said this before, but screw webservers
If you want to cause real panic & mayhem, target the *nix database servers
nought like zero'ing a nations finances to get in the papers

Originally Posted by Ynot

I've said this before, but screw webservers
If you want to cause real panic & mayhem, target the *nix database servers
nought like zero'ing a nations finances to get in the papers

Sure, same point. Didn't we have this exact same discussion in that big OS thread? Btw, I responded to your 24 commentary in the Google Earth thread ...

Originally Posted by dsr

Sure, same point. Didn't we have this exact same discussion in that big OS thread?

yeah, I think we did

Originally Posted by WhiteUnit

Facts wrong? I said e260, but meant 280. However I DID list the price of the 8 gig drive and compared with the 8 gig. READ THE COMMENT RETARD.

And yeah, your a kid as soon as you said 17 almost 18. Why not just say 17 and a half? Your still in school and do NOT have a tech related job, and have no experience with Macs in any way shape or form.

Heres some more edjucation for ya, kid. Mac=Apple=OSX even if Microsoft doesnt not = PC. Mac OWNS OSX, Microsoft does NOT own PC. The only way a PC is worth anything is with Linux.

I dont really care what they charge you in Europe, because I dont live there. Microsoft and Apple are both American based companies, and I live in the US. And just because you link to some random message board I'm suppose to take that as fact? Also I just LINKED to Apple where the iPod @ 8 gigs is $149, and your e280 is @ 149 as well. Just cuz you checked Amazon doesn't count for jack. Stated retail price by the manufactuer is all that counts.

And yes, there is something a Mac can do that PC cant. Macs can have OSX and Windows and Linux. Try putting OSX on a PC it wont be easy.

Your inexperienced, you cleaving for ground to stand on, and you got no evidence (at least from any legitamit resources) backing you up. Game over, kid. I dont care what system you blow your cash on, I have left a well defended point posted here, and I'm through with you. Peace.

That is the most needlessly venomous post I have read since RageOfArchilles last visited, but at least he's are an impressive feat of surrealism; you just sound like a jackass.

He was speaking about a consumer choice he made in his market, at a time where an IPod of similar specification did not exist at a remotely comparable or reasonable price. He even stated in his post that "Europe always gets ripped off."

As I have stated, I also own a Sansa, a 4GB e260. Now, I'm not, and Scatterbrain was not, arguing the case that the Sansa is objectively superior to the IPod. It is just at the time of our purchases the Sansa was the more reasonable purchase. My experience does not care for your stated US RRPs (who buys anything at RRP anyway?), rather, that the iPod Nano was twice as expensive as the Sansa in Britain at the time (3 months ago) and an improved IPod was not on the market (and if it is now, it is still at a heftier price than the Sansa). I shopped around, too.

As for a "well defended point posted here", I only see the tirade of an angry imbecile. I do hope you are not an imbecile and this was only a temporary lapse in intelligence.

Also, your "OS-X can't go on PC" point is valid, but is ineffective. The vast majority of things you can do within OS-X you can do just as easily in XP (and I presume Vista also), and the incompatibility with PC is not a fault of the PC at all; it is rather a design/marketing choice by Apple. They never intended OS-X to work for PC. That's fair enough. But what kind of argument is this to "prove" the inferiority of the PC?

And now to your most embarassing remark:

Originally Posted by WhiteUnit

And yeah, your a kid as soon as you said 17 almost 18. Why not just say 17 and a half? Your still in school and do NOT have a tech related job, and have no experience with Macs in any way shape or form.

He is a "kid" in your definition then. Fine with me. And if you didn't project some sort of childish, vague generalisation of stupidity or inferiority onto it, it'd probably be fine with Scatterbrain too. But there's no reason to assume anything about him besides that he may be a minor under your jurisdiction. He may work part time as a techie. He might be pretty damn good at it. Better than you, perhaps. And he may have been a Mac-user but grew disenchanted. These may not be true, but are all plausible. Gross generalisation via such an ironically childish label as "kid" only makes you look like an arse.

And by the way, I'm a month older than you. BOW DOWN BEFORE ME, CHILD.

Sorry, but that post was crap. Please be more responsible in future.