Thread: What's a good first programming language?

C++

From what I hear, C++ is a hard language to learn, and I've heard people say it's something you DON'T want to start with. What about HTML, just to get me in the mindset and skillset of programming?

Originally Posted by oniman7

From what I hear, C++ is a hard language to learn, and I've heard people say it's something you DON'T want to start with. What about HTML, just to get me in the mindset and skillset of programming?

Sure

As much as I appreciate that, it's not a decision I want to take lightly, being it will probably take a few months for me to get anywhere with any language. Can you maybe go into some more detail?

Originally Posted by oniman7

As much as I appreciate that, it's not a decision I want to take lightly, being it will probably take a few months for me to get anywhere with any language. Can you maybe go into some more detail?

I'm afraid I don't know anything about programming.

Of course you don't... I should have figured that. Can anybody useful help me?

Originally Posted by oniman7

Well, my dad's offered to teach me a programming language over the summer, and I was wondering what a good one might be?

I think the path to the answer is in the question.

Just ask your dad, if he is going to teach you he can probably help you decide.

flash prolly.. (actionscript)

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=74953

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=51395

and, if I do say so myself
this is particularly worth noting

Originally Posted by Ynot

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

I don't think anyone really uses C anymore, C++ is the norm since it has OOP.

C is very widely used outside of the personal computer world

it's fast, and has a low memory footprint
and functionally, it sits very close to the hardware

in the world of 2gig ram PC's, different languages rise & fall depending on trends, software frameworks and time saving (but memory costly) features

outside of PC's....
embedded systems / portable devices / firmware
C is king, and will probably always be king

anything else will reduce performance, battery life and general usability

Originally Posted by Pyrofan1

I don't get why programmers seem to have a fetish with OOP.

Reusable code, mainly
while libraries can be created in any language paradigm, OOP has evolved from the ground up to compliment the design issues of "pluggable" libraries

What are you trying to achieve with your programming skillz?

(yes yes sex haha funny, we've heard it before, move on)

For legal hacking, there might be something useful here:

http://www.hackerslab.org/eorg/

I don't know if the site works, though. I think it was borked last I tried, a few months back.

Originally Posted by oniman7

P.S. Being a hacker sounds kind of fun... is there any way to do it legally?

It sounds like you're confusing the two meanings of hacker. The techie meaning is someone (usually a *nix user) who really understands how his system works and can write useful software to optimize his computing experience. To layman, the term hacker usually refers to a criminal who breaks into other people's computers. The former is legal (usually). The latter is certainly not. If the former is what sounded fun to you, by all means go for it. Python is a great first language for a hacker (same author as the other link). If what sounded fun to you was breaking into computers, you're best (legally and morally) bet would be to become a security analyst.

I would suggest Python. It is supposed to be one of the easiest to learn and use, and in fact I myself am targeting that as my own first programming language. HTML is not a programming language, but rather a markup language. While it would be worthwhile and useful to learn HTML (or a variant, preferably XHTML), along with CSS and JavaScript, it's not really going to help you in the programming field.

As far as legal hacking goes, check out www.remote-exploit.org and download BackTrack if you want to learn some offensive security. I just burned my BackTrack disc today and I'm jumping in headfirst. It looks to be fun, and will provide a much better working knowledge of networking and security, not to mention the Linux operating system. Just be careful not to go trying to break into secured networks with it—use it at home as a learning tool. Like dsr said, if you want to be able to make money doing stuff like that, get a job as a security analyst. In any event, BackTrack is what many professionals in the field use. And it's an interesting Linux LiveCD to check out.

Well, it also depends and what you'll wanna do later on, but it's always a good idea to check out some basic languages at first, as they will still teach you the wide variaty of concepts that will stretch to any other programming language you would move onto eventually (variables, arrays, functions, sub-routines, syntax setup, aswell as just the general idea of how coding works, and the list goes on and on).

And NO, HTML do NOT count as a programming language As the two last letters suggests, it's a markup language which is basically just text used to describe structure of some sort, might be hard to get the differential when you're not really into programming. But trust me, HTML (Which is XHTML now by the way, newly defined rules used to make it more clean and easily readable for all mobile platforms now starting to access the internet ^^ As they have a hard time reading badly coded HTML) and programming languages are nothing alike, and you don't really have anything to learn in HTML as all you got to remember is tags and attritubes, that's all there is to it, won't help you in any way.

As for myself I started off using a basic language called DarkBasic Pro, from:
www.thegamecreators.com

Gave me a great jumpstart as the fast results kept the interest for years while trying off new languages on the side. Basically DarkBasic helped me with all concepts I'd have to know to move on to more advanced languages, and will greatly reduce the learning curve of most other programming languages, C++ included of course. Although when it starts to get a bit deeper in C++ you will find new concepts and ways of doing things if you start of in any basic language out there.

It might also be a good idea to get an early idea of object oriented programming, which is a truly awesome way of programming once you've grasped it! Visual basic do have a basic support of object oriented programming, while darkBasic have zero support. Python is object oriented, so there's another bonus added to it ^^

As already mentioned Python would be a good idea, and I also encourage you to atleast check out Darkbasic. Besides that there's also visual basic. You can also jump straight into C++, but seeing as you're completely new to the world I wouldn't recommend it as you'd bump into way to many confusing concepts and theory that might just make you lose all interest in learning.

My latest addition was learning visual basic as part of ASP.NET web development, and it proved to be no problem at all due to the experience will all concept and theory from earlier programming experiences.

Wish you the best of luck in starting! And if you got any further questions feel free to ask!

Well, I had forgotten what the M stood for . I remembered it was Hyper Text Something or other Language. Might have been important to know. I'm on a Windows right now, but my other computer runs Windows and Linux, and I'm trying to get Linux on this one (ubuntu). Which should I use to start out with? I've heard a lot of things circulating around Python, so I think I'll try that.

I fully disagree that C++ is a difficult language to learn. I don't think it's inherently any more complex or confusing than other high-level, object-oriented languages. C, on the other hand, I found to be pretty tedious in my--admittedly limited--exposure to it.

I want to emphasize that I am not a programmer. But with that said, among the 4 languages that I've worked with to some extent (Basic, C, C++, Java), C++ was my favorite.

Well, my dad and I talked about it for a bit, and he was telling me he's thinking of something along the lines of Ruby. We also figured out I'll be doing it in Linux, mostly because it's going to be easier to use it for personal pursuits. Apparently, a lot of places won't give you a job if you can only do it in Linux, though.

As far as the big "Java vs C++" battle goes, here's my experience:

At my uni, the computer engineers started with C++, and then did Java. The CS students started with Java and then went to C++.

Those that started with C++ had a MUCH easier time transitioning to Java than the other way around, because they had the opportunity to wrap their heads around pointers and references. Ont he other hand, the Java folks were TOTALLY lost when trying out C++ because of the "always by reference" nature of the language making it easy to use without having to understand that aspect.

For that reason, i think C++ is a decent way to start, IF you are willing to invest your time and energy into doing it right.

I'm still waiting to hear what you're planning on using it for, though. I mean, you brought up HTML in there, so I'm really unsure here.

I fully disagree that C++ is a difficult language to learn. I don't think it's inherently any more complex or confusing than other high-level

And it really isn't My point was just that as a complete newbie it can really have a steep learning curve, but if you already got your basic ground then it's not any harder. So if you wanna start out with C++ you can do that, if you're willing to fight for it ^^

I would suggest Perl or Python. Perl is very useful for making scripts in some programs, I know many IRC clients have support for Perl userscripts, and that would be a good way to practice. Perl is also good for automating tasks and other stuff like that. Python is also useful and pretty easy to learn, and if I remember correctly, Google and NASA both use it, along with other big companies.

I'm not a programmer though, so take my advice lightly.

My advice is start with Javascript, then Perl, then Python, then C++. That will give you a very round view on programming and programming theory.

Even though Javascipt isn't a very complex language, it still has similar syntax to plenty of other languages and teaches variables, input, and how to interact with objects and such, at a very high level, which makes it easy to understand. I started with it.


Ruby is poop, by the way.

You want two languages, one object oriented, one procedural oriented. Procedural oriented is easier to learn and conceptualize, so that's the one that you should start with. I recommend FreeBasic, it's technically object oriented, but most people use it in a procedural way, and it's syntax is very similar to C so converting to other languages after it will be easy.

After that, you should learn java. It's a very high level, object oriented languages. In programming, you want to learn the highest level languages first, as they are the easiest to understand.

C++ is not a language for beginners, it's a very unruly beast, even for those who are very experienced. It does exactly what you program it to do, regardless of whether or not it's right. That's good for low level assemblers and programmers, but painful for students. A missing * or a null pointer can drive a student crazy.

Spot the difference in these lines, they look very similar, each one does something very different.

Code:

int Foo(string foobar);
__stdcall int Foo(string foobar);
__cdecl int Foo(string foobar);
int Foo(string foobar) const;
int Foo(string & foobar) const;
int Foo(string * foobar) const;
int Foo(const string & foobar) const;
int Foo(string & const foobar) const;
int Foo(string & const foobar) const = 0;
int Foo(string[] & foobar) const = 0;
int Foo(string & foobar[]) const = 0

and those are just method declarations

Missed a semicolon there.

C++ is a powerful language, and some people aren't quite ready to hold that power yet.

Why has noone suggested Java?
(maybe someone did, I speed read ><)

Java is brilliant for beginners and is a good way to get into object oriented programming.

EDIT: So discussion of Java /was/ had! Sure starting with C++ will make it a lot easier to transition to Java later, but Java is so so so much easier to get into if you just want a first language that'll take you a few weeks to learn (if you're dedicated)

Java is not that great of a language in my opinion. It's incredibly slow compared to other languages, and really has no uses aside from web apps, and those are better made in Flash anyway.