Where do I start? Learning computer language

[Abra]

I know how to program graphing calculators. I'm pretty darn good at it, I guess. Not only can I make pretty cool triangle solvers and other equation junk, but I can make awesome animations and games using 'basic' style programming, as well. Whether it's a virtual fishtank, an RPG, a high-score arcade game, or a puzzle game, I can crank 'em out in good quality and fun. But that's the extent of my programming knowledge. As my use of the calculator declines, and my use of computer increases, I want to switch my skills from calc to comp. But I've never taken any courses for computers. I know very little HTML(!). My goal is to learn how to make these simple games and tools on the computer (eventually evolving into cooler stuff). But I have no clue where to begin. What language should I start with? Java? Flash? Which would be easiest? Any good tutorials out there? Discuss: -Graphing calculators -programming n00bs

[Kushna Mufeed]

Or...download a graphing calculator emulator!

[ninja9578]

C If you're planning to go into that field then C is a must-know. Almost all programming now-a-days is done in C++. Since you've never had proper classes then I assume that you've never done OOP, which is difficult to teach yourself so C would be the best bet, since C++ is a derivation of C. Java is also OOP, which would make it hard to learn and very few applications are written in it. You mentioned games. Almost all game engine are written in C, it's the fastest and in gaming speed is everything. The ones that aren't OpenGL use C++, but it's a decreasing amount and will soon become the minority. Since you're good a BASIC I might recommend an opensource project called FreeBasic. It's a Windows/Linux upgrade to the old QBasic, but much more powerful, I use it from time to time and it's very easy to code it. It's also a good gateway to C because it has a GNU back end and has syntax and commands very similar to C.

[Ynot]

Either C or C++ everything is based off of C or C++ to varying degrees once you know these, anything else is a cinch to pick up Initially, you may be happier with C like Basic, it's a procedural language (executes top down, and includes functions and sub-routines) C++ is an extension to C, and provides a strong object orientated approach as well as the procedural approach OOP (object orientated programming) requires a different mind-set to work in. *edit* as for tutorials, http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html *edit 2* probably the most difficult concept to get to grips with (coming from Basic), is the separate header files make sure you have a good understanding of why & how code is split into header and source files and if in doubt, ask

[M-Cat]

Learn calculator assembly language. Or you can help me and Dan Cook, search up "Antidisassemblage" on ticalc.org.

[ninja9578]

probably the most difficult concept to get to grips with (coming from Basic), is the separate header files make sure you have a good understanding of why & how code is split into header and source files and if in doubt, ask Basic has separate header files. It's not as imperative with C, I've done small projects (1000 LOC) all in one big files, but it's not good practice. Learn how to do a top down design and modulate your program. Headers are much more imperative in C++ than C, but it's good to have then for both.

[Ynot]

Basic has separate header files. oh, ok well, sinclair basic didn't....

[M-Cat]

oh, ok well, sinclair basic didn't.... Neither does ti-basic, which is the language he's coming from. But headers are simple to understand and they're logical, I can't see how someone could have trouble with C just because of headers.

[ninja9578]

No, C headers are simple. I think that Ynot was referring to C++ headers. They're a little bit different because there are a few kinds. There are skeleton headers, abstract headers, interface headers, headers with inline methods. Don't yell at me, I don't remember the exact terminology for each kind, but you know what I'm talking about.

[Ynot]

Neither does ti-basic, which is the language he's coming from. But headers are simple to understand and they're logical, I can't see how someone could have trouble with C just because of headers. just recounting my own troubles, really I came from sinclair basic one program = one source file hitting C++ head on, and wondering why one program had half a dozen files It was my biggest hurdle with C++ I just did what other people did, with regards to splitting up the file and for the longest time, not knowing why I did it or what it's purpose was I'm hideously out of date with modern forms of Basic (save for the occasional dabble with Word Basic) so I had no idea basic had adopted headers...

[ninja9578]

Yeah, there is a powerful semi OOP language called FreeBasic that can be modulated very well. I've written some large programs with 50 individual files. My favourite part about that is that compiling the main one automatically compiles all of them, no makefiles Oh, for Abra, read up on makefiles, unless you are using an IDE, those are pretty important.

[Pyrofan1]

avoid assembly unless you want to go into really hardcore hacking, device drivers, os creation or intense game engines. while assembly is easy to learn it takes a lot more code than any other language. for example this C code aFunction((a*b/c),c*c); would look like this in assembly mul $c, $c push $c mul $a, $b mov $a, %eax idiv %eax, $c push %eax call aFunction

[Needcatscan]

I would suggest java. It's widely used (not for gaming) and is basically an easier version of C and C++. I don't think anyone really uses C anymore, C++ is the norm since it has OOP. My bro and I made a Final Fantasy-esque game in Visual Basic 6. We made 20 classes (as in mage, warrior, not as in OOP classes) instead of just a few. It was a lot of fun.

[Pyrofan1]

I would suggest java. It's widely used (not for gaming) and is basically an easier version of C and C++ Java was invented long after C and i think after C++ too. I don't get why programmers seem to have a fetish with OOP.

[Ynot]

I don't think anyone really uses C anymore, C++ is the norm since it has OOP. C is very widely used outside of the personal computer world it's fast, and has a low memory footprint and functionally, it sits very close to the hardware in the world of 2gig ram PC's, different languages rise & fall depending on trends, software frameworks and time saving (but memory costly) features outside of PC's.... embedded systems / portable devices / firmware C is king, and will probably always be king anything else will reduce performance, battery life and general usability I don't get why programmers seem to have a fetish with OOP. Reusable code, mainly while libraries can be created in any language paradigm, OOP has evolved from the ground up to compliment the design issues of "pluggable" libraries

[Needcatscan]

C is very widely used outside of the personal computer world it's fast, and has a low memory footprint and functionally, it sits very close to the hardware in the world of 2gig ram PC's, different languages rise & fall depending on trends, software frameworks and time saving (but memory costly) features outside of PC's.... embedded systems / portable devices / firmware C is king, and will probably always be king anything else will reduce performance, battery life and general usability Didn't know that. My major (CS) hasn't focused very much on C, we only programmed in it for 2 weeks. The rest has been c++ and java.

[Ynot]

it all comes down to a compromise between ease of development and run-time speed & efficiency If you're programming a car's traction control system, then you know it will only be run on a single piece of hardware it'll need to be as fast as possible so you'll probably program the chip directly using machine code, or possibly the assembly language of the CPU If you change chips later on, you'll have to rewrite the traction control system in the new chips native language If you're writing a general purpose program to be used on a variety of hardware, but speed is all important (an operating system, for example) you'll probably write in in C If you're writing a word processor, you may choose C++, as it'll take less time to write

[Abra]

'Kay, so now I downloaded a compiler and am starting to dabble with very simple stuff. I'm working on If statements and variables. I'm slow, I know.

[Ynot]

your first task is a "Hello World" program have fun

[Sornaensis]

C If you're planning to go into that field then C is a must-know. Almost all programming now-a-days is done in C++. Since you've never had proper classes then I assume that you've never done OOP, which is difficult to teach yourself so C would be the best bet, since C++ is a derivation of C. Java is also OOP, which would make it hard to learn and very few applications are written in it. You mentioned games. Almost all game engine are written in C, it's the fastest and in gaming speed is everything. The ones that aren't OpenGL use C++, but it's a decreasing amount and will soon become the minority. Since you're good a BASIC I might recommend an opensource project called FreeBasic. It's a Windows/Linux upgrade to the old QBasic, but much more powerful, I use it from time to time and it's very easy to code it. It's also a good gateway to C because it has a GNU back end and has syntax and commands very similar to C. Sorry to burst your bubble, but C++ is becoming more PROMINENT. Not declining. C is a must-klnw, but C++ really is the standard.

[Ynot]

well, what he said was correct (at least, it's also how I understand it) he said "Almost all programming now-a-days is done in C++" but, "Almost all game engine are written in C" both of which are true game engines, by their very nature, need to be as fast as possible - C is the best choice for them

[Abra]

Assuming I continue this C stuff, would it be pretty easy for me to learn C++?

[Pyrofan1]

yes

[Ynot]

C & C++ are 80%, or so, the same there's a few new things introduced in C++ and a few other things change slightly The new things, are: classes (for OOP) templates (for generic programming) Both of these give rise to the standard template library, which gives you generic containers and simplifies a lot of the dynamic allocation and pointer stuff But the STL doesn't do everything (far from it, in some cases) so sooner or later you'll find yourself doing dynamic allocation and pointer work in C++ manually If you come up though C, you will end up with an advanced knowledge of dynamic allocation and the use of pointers will be second nature, and you won't write leaky code (well, only by accident, not though poor understanding) there's a lot of C++ people who try to avoid pointers completely cause they're too reliant on the STL

[ninja9578]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but C++ is becoming more PROMINENT. Not declining. C is a must-klnw, but C++ really is the standard. You misread my quote. I meant that the number of games using Direct3d is declining compared to OpenGL. I wasn't comparing languages. OpenGL is just better suited for C, DX is better for OOP.