Thread: WILDing? Give this a try.

Dunno, I was under the idea that if you have naps just normally it will be almost instant REM Sleep, so, what's the need for this if naps do the same thing? I'm just a tad confused :3

I've read a lot of interesting anecdotal things about polyphasic sleep (uberman in particular), and the biggest thing I heard about was the long term viability of that sort of sleep pattern. I know that quasi-polyphasic sleep was historically popular (essentially an extended WBTB).

My question for you is, how long have you been doing everyman so far, and how have you found it's effects on your waking life to be?

Naps are good for lucid dreaming, but to dream you do need to fall asleep, trying to stay awake will just keep one awake and not being able to sleep. WILD is not about waiting for it, WILD is about falling asleep while being aware of it, i would suggest editing that in.
Also an actual sleep deprivation most of the time makes it only harder to keep awareness, but if one can get used to polyphasic sleeping it should not affect it much though.

Originally Posted by Phased

Dunno, I was under the idea that if you have naps just normally it will be almost instant REM Sleep, so, what's the need for this if naps do the same thing? I'm just a tad confused :3

You're absolutely right. Normal naps are a great time. What I found for me though, and we're all unique, was that the schedule allowed me to get into REM even quicker. During naps, you may not be tired enough to see it through as you've had enough REM, but with everyman, you have a good chance of getting in because your body is desperate.

Originally Posted by Mortalis

I've read a lot of interesting anecdotal things about polyphasic sleep (uberman in particular), and the biggest thing I heard about was the long term viability of that sort of sleep pattern. I know that quasi-polyphasic sleep was historically popular (essentially an extended WBTB).
My question for you is, how long have you been doing everyman so far, and how have you found it's effects on your waking life to be?

Your method sounds just as feasible. I've not tried it.
And also yes! Long term viability is an issue. It all depends on you and if you work, go to school.
I was poly phasic only for about 3 or 4 months, when I was more free over a summer and there are the physical and mental effects you would expect. Moodiness, lower focus, a "high". So that's a valid point.

Originally Posted by Checker666

Naps are good for lucid dreaming, but to dream you do need to fall asleep, trying to stay awake will just keep one awake and not being able to sleep. WILD is not about waiting for it, WILD is about falling asleep while being aware of it, i would suggest editing that in.
Also an actual sleep deprivation most of the time makes it only harder to keep awareness, but if one can get used to polyphasic sleeping it should not affect it much though.

I did not mean try to stay awake, I mean try to stay "aware". And I have found that for me and for others, it is indeed about waiting. If you're over eager, you will likely falter.

But hey, just my 2 cents. I will make some edits =)

Last night I was awake. I may use this as an opportunity to re-adapt.

Although this concept is not new (polyphasic sleep always means lucidity during the naps), it's great to see people adopting it, it takes a real effort to keep a kind of schedule like that. But I guess the rewards are totally worth it

Do you know if you get any REM sleep during the core hours?

Not 100% sure on his credibility, but have you seen Steve Pavlina's polyphasic sleep journal? It was one of the more extensive ones I've read (anecdotal of course), and was useful in understanding some of the benefits and challenges of polyphasic sleep. His experience is pretty unrelated to LDing, but could be a useful resource. Tough part is there isn't really peer reviewed journal articles on this stuff yet, though it would be interesting to see some to get some better data on medium to long term effects.

Originally Posted by bro

I did not mean try to stay awake, I mean try to stay "aware". And I have found that for me and for others, it is indeed about waiting. If you're over eager, you will likely falter.

Ah, though what i meant about waiting is that focusing on waiting might make it harder to fall asleep, It's generally about just being aware and letting it come.

Originally Posted by Checker666

Ah, though what i meant about waiting is that focusing on waiting might make it harder to fall asleep, It's generally about just being aware and letting it come.

I think there is definitely a delicate balance, focus can help you not lose a train of thought, which might cause a failed WILD, though you obviously need to have your mind be quiet enough to let yourself fall asleep. I used to picture myself doing Tae-Kwon Do forms, other people use Mantras, etc. Either way, I think a focal point for awareness is important.

You are definitely right though, and more than a few times I've found myself lying awake with a racing mind!

Originally Posted by zoth00

Do you know if you get any REM sleep during the core hours?

I found myself wondering the same thing actually . I am not sure. I would venture a guess to say you probably do but I can't back that up. The naps were where the magic seemed to happen.

Originally Posted by Mortalis

Tough part is there isn't really peer reviewed journal articles on this stuff yet

So true. I actually just searched some databases at my university, and a focus is dreaming and memory, not so much lucidity. There were a few publications by, of course, LaBerg, and Castenada, but I don't have access.

I am going to look up the fellow you mentioned.

Originally Posted by Checker666

It's generally about just being aware and letting it come.

Agreed. I should take that advice more often. If you've had success WILD'ing you definitely know what works for you.

Originally Posted by zoth00

Do you know if you get any REM sleep during the core hours?

Yes.

In my experience, REM will cycle through normally (ie, 90 minutes into core time), at least.

Indeed, the real issue might be "Will you get any NREM sleep during the core hours?" By reducing your night's sleep to as little as two hours (Per Uberman method), you run the risk of missing out on needed NREM sleep due to fracturing your circadian rhythym... For that I think it's a good idea OP's plan calls for three hours of "core" sleep, as that will likely be enough to ensure some NREM (though four hours would be better, I think).

Originally Posted by Sageous

Yes.

In my experience, REM will cycle through normally (ie, 90 minutes into core time), at least.

Indeed, the real issue might be "Will you get any NREM sleep during the core hours?" By reducing your night's sleep to as little as two hours (Per Uberman method), you run the risk of missing out on needed NREM sleep due to fracturing your circadian rhythym... For that I think it's a good idea OP's plan calls for three hours of "core" sleep, as that will likely be enough to ensure some NREM (though four hours would be better, I think).

Good input, I am still not sure whether to try this out or to just continue with my current WBTB technique until I get that down. I don't want to flux my self with to much stuff, I think I will stick to learning to WBTB am then later try this out, that will be better for me in y opinion.

I forgot to mention: according to studies, REM fragmentation leads to increase in REM, with subjects reporting an increase of average REM stages from 3 to 5 per night just by simply being woken up during REM (and then they quickly go back to sleep, so we're not talking about REM rebound).

Guess the real question is: how come people manage to cope with so few N-REM sleep 0o

Originally Posted by Phased

Good input, I am still not sure whether to try this out or to just continue with my current WBTB technique until I get that down. I don't want to flux my self with to much stuff, I think I will stick to learning to WBTB am then later try this out, that will be better for me in y opinion.

That sounds like a good plan to me -- getting the hang of the mechanics of WILD first before screwing with your sleep schedule is probably an excellent idea!

Originally Posted by Sageous

That sounds like a good plan to me -- getting the hang of the mechanics of WILD first before screwing with your sleep schedule is probably an excellent idea!

xD Definatly, sounds a lot more like a good idea when you phrase it like that


-Phased

Some notes. Not a bad start. 2 smaller naps and one core for now.

Recall in bolded text, thoughts in “quotes", SP experiences in turquoise
And deep blue for lucidity. Italics for notes

May 2nd- 6 Hour core
1) Family crisis, mom’s disappointed in my professional path,
the house looks re modeled.

May 2nd Nap (1)-After tossing and turning for a while A Rumbling, rushing, a sensation of tumbling and pulling. “Sleep paralysis, I still feel my physical body though, let’s give it time, too much coffee”… Tumbling and rumbling some more. Awaken.

(This soundtrack plays as I bounce around in SP. http://www.youtube.com/watch/?v=oyjbNWf3htw)
ENERGIZED after nap.




May 3rd- 5 Hour core recall-

1)At her house, her brother is there. It was all a big misunderstanding, I should really call her, and not ignore anymore. She wouldn't answer, and I have no energy for that business, anyway
2)With hundreds of others, we are in an overcrowded overseas laundromat. It's a firetrap.
3)Girl from class, a real mess is screaming at me, she looks like a hooded “The Ring” girl. She is descending a spiral staircase toward me.
4) A family gathering, I take a nap, "Maybe I can WILD" in a back room and a “shadow man” is in the corner. He slowly floats toward me “Holy shit, this is like sleep paralysis, but that guy's real so this isn't SP”.

Recall is better than it's been in a long time. This is still adaptation- I will begin trying to incorporate multiple naps. It's 3 AM here. Nap at 6 or 7 AM. Thus far I feel great, pumped, and hitting the books.