Losing feeling of body but it comes back when I notice

[Zangetsu]

I've been trying to get back into LDing lately and I've had a few times where I almost had a WILD without even intending to. The other morning, I got up for WBTB and felt terribly tired, so I didn't really feel like staying up very long. Especially since if I wake up at all, even just by sitting upright for a minute, I can't go back to sleep for another hour or two. Anyway, to stay awake while I set my intention to essentially DEILD on my next awakening (Michael Raduga's techniques to be specific), I decided to lie on my stomach. I normally sleep on my side so something like this works well for keeping me awake. Well apparently I was still so tired that I got distracted and drifted towards sleep, but my weird position kept me awake enough to feel the moment when my muscles started heading toward paralysis (I think?). I laid there for another few minutes and drifted off again, but this time I came back to senses when I lost track of my body. Now I'm no stranger to the dream body transition because that's what happens a lot when you do Michael Raduga's style of DEILDing. But as soon as I lost track of my body, I "found" it again and it felt just like it did before it "left". I tried to move my dream body by rolling out of bed, etc. but I'm 95% sure I wasn't dreaming. I eventually gave up and fell asleep for real but I think this could be my best anchor for WILDing. My question is how do I seal the deal when I get to the part where my senses shut off essentially? Whenever something like this happens that progresses me closer to a dream, I normally tend to notice it and then it just kinda undoes itself. I'm thinking visualization or introspection is key here, but I'm not the best at visualizing anything. Perhaps I could think about some kind of scenario or daydream while keeping in mind that I'll be dreaming soon? Not too experienced in this area of LDing so any suggestions from you WILD pros would be helpful. Thanks!

[sisyphus]

I think the important thing is to focus on what might or should happen next. If you only focus on a feeling or mental state, then it may tend to stay so. But if you look forward to a progression of what comes next, then you will coax it to happen. Some examples: If you are focusing on visualization, then you would imagine those visual scenes developing into a dream. You'll want to transition from a looking at a scene (like a movie screen) to being in the scene (an immersion of senses). If you are focusing on a sensory anchor, then you would want to imagine it becoming surreal. My preferred technique is to focus on the weight of my body and the soft sensation of the bed under me. Mu imagination is that my weight will sink into the soft bed and fall through it. This surreal experience will confirm that I am dreaming and help me transition into a scene. If you are focusing on your mental state, then you would imagine it transitioning to a loopy/dreamy state. You're looking for the point when everything becomes fuzzy and your thoughts start to materialized as images and sensations. You enter a state where it seems that your perception is controlled by your thoughts, which is the opposite of the usual real case.

[Zangetsu]

Thanks for the examples! I have tried one visualization technique before in which I counted in my head and visualized all the numbers as I went. This seems to help distract me a little bit, but I really feel like I need some kind of default daydream that I can go to in order to fully occupy my thoughts. When I imagine the scene developing into a dream, should I try to engage my dream senses like touch or just focus on sight? I like the idea of falling through the bed because I've started a few dreams like that, so I think it will be easy to imagine that again. Just curious, do you WILD after a long WBTB where you pretty much have to go thru the whole process of falling asleep all over again? Like do you wake yourself up mentally and then have to slow it back down again in order to fall asleep? Or do you wake up really tired and just use an anchor to keep your mind awake? I really like the idea of being able to wake up in the middle of the night, roll into a slightly uncomfortable position, and allow my body to fall back asleep while my mind stays awake. A lot of guides make WILD seem like a long process but maybe we just overcomplicate it sometimes?

[sisyphus]

I don't do WBTB before WILD. I just wake up from a dream, feel "that feeling" that let's me know it's a good opportunity for WILD, and I proceed. It takes 5-10 minutes at most. But I wouldn't claim that this is a more successful strategy, just one that cherry-picks opportunities. And it partners well with MILD. That's really my WILD technique, an extension of MILD that uses the fall-through-the-bed metaphor as a simultaneous anchor + visualization + expectation + reality check. If there's anything I would suggest on the topic of planning and routine, it's that one should develop a routine that allows them to wake at least once or twice every night before the final waking at morning. During those wakings, the default technique is MILD, and mix in a WILD attempt when it seems viable. More opportunities and more dreams means more experience and more opportunities to experiment. So rather than trying to craft the perfect scenario, aim for quantity over quality, and, to invoke a business cliche: "We'll make it up in volume." So that's why I offer many examples. My technique works for me, but I suspect each person needs to experiment on their own. More dreams and more attempts means more learning. Those "long" WILD sessions can be instructive in experimenting with different ideas. So consider each as a learning opportunity even if it doesn't succeed. Always though, turn your expectation toward the progression of the act toward being in the lucid scene, rather than lingering too long on a feeling or visual.

[Zangetsu]

Oh ok that does make sense to not WBTB before trying to WILD. I also like your style of only WILDing when you get a feeling that it's a good time. That actually is how I got a lot of my LD's. Specifically, I would drift off while trying to focus my thoughts on lucid dreaming and randomly come to at the perfect time when I just knew I could WILD into a dream. I hate to keep bothering you with questions, but what does your MILD technique consist of? I've read about MILD in ETWOLD but it never really clicked with me. From what I understand, you think about becoming lucid and tell yourself that you will become lucid next time you dream (with more details than that of course)? I haven't had any luck with it so far so I never really understood how it was supposed to be one of the more dependable induction methods. Thanks!

[sisyphus]

Over the years, my discipline with MILD has lessened, but I will boil it down like this: 1. Be prepared Specifically, that means to have a plan for what you want to do and maybe have a scene in mind as well. Know your dreamsigns. Know your stabilization routine. Rehearse what it feels like to become lucid based on past dreams. Have some structure about how you recall dreams (I'll go into that in the next section). 2. Wake from a dream and recall it For a few minutes, keep the previous dream in mind as much as possible. This extends the "dreamy" feeling that will help you get back to sleep and possibly WILD. The things you do during recall with become habits in future dreams. When recalling a dream, try to focus on detail over plot. You can go about this in a structured way. For example, if you read my dream journal you will see whenever I enter a scene, I identify the light source. How bright is it? Which direction is it coming from? What is its quality: Sunlight? Moonlight? Fluorescent? Incandescent? Other repeatable details to look for are: Guess the time or look for a clock. Describe the hair and clothing worn by dream characters. You can work these into a stabilization routine for each new scene. The point of all this is to keep your attention on detail and dreamsigns so that you stop and look for them rather than getting "swept away" by the plot. At this time, you can also engage in some interpretation of the dream. What did it mean? Were some elements obviously attributed to recent events in waking life (day residue)? Where some elements more symbolic? You don't have to arrive at anything too definite. The point is just to continue investigating the dream by bringing in your memory, logic, and speculative faculties. 3. Set up the next dream Now after you have mulled over the past dream, start shifting your attention and intention to the next dream. Try to connect as many aspects of the previous dream, your plan, and your memory as possible. Did the previous dream remind you of a task you wanted to do or a scene you wanted to visit? It's okay to change your plan at this time as long as you are firm about choosing one. Did the previous dream remind you of other past dreams? Is there some thread running through them that may continue? Did you miss any dreamsigns? Develop a strong intention that you will success in the next dream at becoming lucid, based on the confluence of all these reinforcing practices.

[Zangetsu]

Wow thanks for the detailed response! I actually took your advice last night by simply trying to focus on lucid dreaming on every awakening instead of trying to force a WILD attempt and I had an LD! I think now I'll start trying to add some structure into my MILD technique without making it too complex or technical at first. That seems to be the way to go for me, instead of trying to all-at-once implement some grand plan of a technique like I have been doing. I'll try to add some of the things you talked about and build it up from there. Maybe doing this will increase my number of WILD opportunities as well without having to dedicate hours to the entire WILD process. So you have success with this technique without needing to WBTB? I would love to be able to have a consistent method of getting lucid without having to modify my sleep schedule since I'm such a light sleeper.

[sisyphus]

Wow thanks for the detailed response! I actually took your advice last night by simply trying to focus on lucid dreaming on every awakening instead of trying to force a WILD attempt and I had an LD! I lost count of my LDs but maybe I should start counting my assists. So you have success with this technique without needing to WBTB? I would love to be able to have a consistent method of getting lucid without having to modify my sleep schedule since I'm such a light sleeper. WBTB helps and I would do it more often if my schedule allowed, but it's not a necessity. For a light sleeper, I think a good alternative is to have a very long sleep session, when you can spare the time like on a weekend. After about 9+ hours of sleep, it's almost all REM so you can drift in and out of WILDs, DEILDs, and DILDs for an extended amount of time.

[Zangetsu]

WBTB helps and I would do it more often if my schedule allowed, but it's not a necessity. For a light sleeper, I think a good alternative is to have a very long sleep session, when you can spare the time like on a weekend. After about 9+ hours of sleep, it's almost all REM so you can drift in and out of WILDs, DEILDs, and DILDs for an extended amount of time. Interesting, I sleep around 9-10 hours most days (very flexible college schedule atm ) but I haven't had many lucid experiences in a while. Guess this should get better with time. I've been trying to keep doing the MILD tech. I haven't had any more lucids but I've had crazy dream recall lately. Like I can recall fragments from 5+ dreams without any kind of dream journal. I'm noticing a lot more dream signs now too after I wake up. And I feel like putting so much focus on my dreams during my short nightly awakenings will put my mind back into the habit of getting lucid, per se. P.S. Do you know of any good MILD threads on DV? I get the generic technique but I'd love to hear some more personal variants to give me some ideas on how to do my own. I couldn't find many active MILD threads anywhere. Thanks!

[sisyphus]

P.S. Do you know of any good MILD threads on DV? I get the generic technique but I'd love to hear some more personal variants to give me some ideas on how to do my own. I couldn't find many active MILD threads anywhere. Thanks! Not off the top of my head. My technique is pretty much straight out of ETWOLD, just rephrased and interpreted in my own words and experience. But there have been some interesting discussions about skills related to MILD. I'm thinking in particular of: prospective memory (Zoth has contributed much on this), a systematic approach to dream journaling and sleep schedule (Sensei is into this), meditation/awareness practices (MasterMind and others) and optimizing mantras (sorry, no name comes to mind on this). Wish I could spare some time to search specific threads, but for now I hope that gives you a head start. A better way to search the forum than the internal search is to use Google and prefix your search query with the domain name and a colon, like this: dreamviews.com: prospective memory