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    Thread: Why You Fail at WILDs

    1. #1
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      Why You Fail at WILDs

      In the following post I will be sharing insights I have gained over the past two years in regards to the fine art known as WILDing. Keep in mind, all of this comes from personal experience, and you should probably take it with a grain of salt, much like the title of this thread.

      Prepare yourself. A wall of text awaits!

      My history:

      When I first learned about LDing, I became immediately drawn toward the phenomena referred to as a Wake Induced Lucid Dream. Wow! I thought, A way to become lucid any time I want? Sign me up! I did my research right here on DV, learning the 'ins and outs' of WILDing from your typical WILD related posts. My early readings did include Jeff's famous "How to Trick Your Body Into Falling Asleep" thread, but the majority of my initial knowledge came from threads similar to this.

      Ever an eager noob, I often committed the cardinal sin of attempting a WILD before racking up a decent amount of sleep beforehand. During these attempts, which were doomed to fail from the start, I would utilize my shoddy knowledge of what I believed the 'proper technique' was, keeping track of the 'stages' as I went. All my time and energy would go into performing this super-cool thing called a WILD. Hell, I once spent a good four hours on one attempt. My commitment was met with resounding failure. Obviously, dedication alone wasn't cutting it. Broader research would be needed if I was going to figure out how to pull this off.

      Utilizing the search function, I garnered even more information about how others had achieved their WILDs, all the while trying to WILD in my free time by making use of every new tidbit and little known 'fact' I had learned. And still, after months of trying, I was getting nowhere pretty freakin' fast. Then, one fateful school night, I did it. I accomplished, almost effortlessly, a feat that had eluded me all that time. But I was baffled as to how. My first WILD occurred late at night, after I had awoken in the middle of a sleep cycle. As I drifted back to sleep, somehow, someway, I had retained consciousness all the way into the dream state.

      Despite that glimpse of success, for well over a year, I would remain oblivious to the most blatantly obvious thing about WILDing. During that time, I would begin development on a number of my own techniques, all based on the findings of others, all of which weren't wildly successful (Har har). It wasn't until I started focusing on my own experiences that real progress commenced.


      Why you should care:

      How about because I could potentially, right here, right now, save you a huge portion of the time and trouble I went through in order to reach that point where WILDing became par for the course. Sound good? Then go back and read the above if you haven't already. . . lazy bum.

      Done already?

      Good.

      Now for the meaty stuff.


      Analyzing the past:

      I believe my story is an excellent example of a typical fledgling WILDer. Eager to learn, but searching in all the wrong places. WILDing, like just about everything concerning LDs, is a personal experience. You can only get so far on the accomplishments of others. To truly be successful, you have to dig deep and do a crap ton of introspection in order to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. Of course, that's nothing new, everyone who's done decent research and has a fair amount of experience has probably come to the same conclusion a dozen times over.


      My "Contribution":

      So what can I possibly offer that's new, unique, and exciting? Unfortunately, as I've said before, what I discovered was so ridiculously obvious that everyone already knows what is. In fact, it lies at the very root of the definition itself.

      WILD - To fall asleep, into a dream state, while retaining consciousness.

      "To fall asleep,"

      Now, before you ZOMG RAGE QUIT! let me explain the implications of these three words. By the generally accepted definition of a WILD, it is impossible to WILD without first falling asleep. Secondary to falling asleep is maintaining awareness of the event. Key word: Secondary.

      All this emphasis is being placed on the awareness part, but what's sorely missing is respect for the most basic and fundamental part of WILDing. That, I feel, is the key to successful WILDs. It is, after all, what I've based my current method on. In fact, my very first WILD was a result of this exact concept.


      Applications:
      This theory is all well and good, but you're probably wondering about practical applications. Below I will outline the steps I followed to turn this idea into something usable. Hopefully, this will be enough to get some of you jump started on finding your own WILD style.

      1. Learn the basics.
        At the end of this post I shall provide a list of information every WILDer should know. I insist you do your own research on each one.
      2. Figure out the most opportune time to WILD.
        This will always be whenever you are closest to a REM period. Typically, six hours after first falling asleep is a good time, but it can vary from person to person. For instance, I generally need eight. However, I've found naps to be an even better time to WILD. The trick here is that the time should be one in which you are not only close to REM, but also one where you are tired enough to fall asleep very easily.
      3. Recognize what happens when falling asleep.
        This is pretty straightforward. Simply recall moments where you were about to fall asleep, but were suddenly forced into alertness. Those with WILDs already under their belt can use those experiences to help better determine even more of what goes on when falling asleep.
      4. Don't WILD.
        "Lawl, wut?" What this means is that when making an attempt, the focus should be put on falling asleep, first and foremost. Don't try to recognize SP, don't do anything you wouldn't normally do to help yourself fall asleep. Things like Reverse Blinking, if they work for you, are totally okay, as long as the point of the exercise is to help you sleep.
      5. Work on Awareness
        Finding something that helps keep you aware, without hindering your ability to sleep is what you're aiming for here. Common sense and experimentation will prove the most beneficial.

      Tips For Success:

      • Know how sleep works.
      • Don't get caught up on SP.
      • It's okay to swallow, really.
      • Experiment when appropriate, but try to stay consistent as much as possible.
      • Afternoon naps can often be great times to WILD.
      • Start attempts in a comfortable position.
      • Don't stress out about moving.
      • But try not to move unless absolutely necessary.
      • FALL ASLEEP!
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    2. #2
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      This is great! When I joined I was drawn to WILD's as well. I have been attempting WILD's every night, but I haven't had any great success. My usual failure is when I start counting, and I would find myself lost in my mind therefore losing my count and starting over. Is there any way that you can make yourself stay focused on just counting?

      Thanks for sharing this.
      -CV

      Edit: I should say, I know my REM times, sleep patterns, dream signs, and other things. I'm really interested in learning to LD specifically in the WILD category, and I know I have come to the right place to discuss this, and learn more from what you can share.
      Last edited by ClearView; 05-12-2010 at 03:42 PM.
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      Dreamer LucidApprentice's Avatar
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      Nice tutorial, this is sort of my technique too. I find the typical WILD tutorial stating the complete opposite though: Wait for pictures, stay perfectly still, wait until you hear something, etc, and stay aware (which through those instructions basically means stay awake). Just falling asleep at the right time is the most important step in my opinion. If fact, if I wake up at the right time it's impossible for me not to WILD
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    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by ClearView View Post
      This is great! When I joined I was drawn to WILD's as well. I have been attempting WILD's every night, but I haven't had any great success. My usual failure is when I start counting, and I would find myself lost in my mind therefore losing my count and starting over. Is there any way that you can make yourself stay focused on just counting?

      Thanks for sharing this.
      -CV
      When I messed around with counting and other mental activities, I found the most success when I didn't focus on counting 'right' per se. It's perfectly alright to skip or repeat numbers, in fact I've had quite a few WILDs where I was able to keep awareness by repeating the same thing in my head over and over again. The important thing, that I really want to reiterate, is you make the counting a secondary mental process. Let it run by itself, keeping tabs on it, but otherwise not playing a heavily active role in its progression. That should help make it easier to actually fall asleep.
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    5. #5
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      Ah Fair Enough. Will give the "odd sequence of counting" a go tonight and see if I get different results. Thanks a bunch again

      -CV
      Having Trouble With Dream Control and Clarity? Reflex Stabilization Technique

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      Nice guide I'll give this a try combined with SD-WILD right now.
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      Member Nighthog's Avatar
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      Great guide.

      Falling asleep in the first place is key! I had just started kind of become leaning into this and BAM! you have a complete guide to detail it in faster for me.

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      I like the fact you put a lot of emphasis on sleep. Most of the time there is a lot of emphasis on awareness, but I find actively being aware (ie trying trying trying) does not work. Good tutorial!
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    9. #9
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      Thanks for the feedback guys!

      It looks like the intended message is getting across, but if there are any outstanding questions I left unanswered please let me know.

      Thanks again,

      -Mzzkc
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      Member Miomek's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mzzkc View Post
      Thanks for the feedback guys!
      No, I thank you!
      This is exactly what i was beginning to see.
      The point is not to WILD while WILDing. lol
      Who would have thought.

      Oh, and by the way i think the thread should be sticky.
      It really can save tons of unsuccessful attempts.
      Last edited by Miomek; 05-18-2010 at 03:27 PM.
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    11. #11
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      Great tutorial, man. Like pretty much everything, in order to WILD successfully, you just gotta do it, instead of THINKING how you're gonna do it.
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      Hey man great post. I am just wondering how long this takes usually? How long do you stay up?

      Credit to Puffin for this amazing work of art!

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      Really interesting that I came up to this thread and the OP mentioned about recognize when falling asleep. I recently determined is that when I start thinking about retarded and abstract stuff that sometimes end up on hypnic jerks.
      Dream journal started January 8th:

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    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Motley View Post
      Hey man great post. I am just wondering how long this takes usually? How long do you stay up?
      It really depends on how tired I am and how quickly I can stop consciously controlling my thoughts.

      For afternoon naps where I got less than 5 hours of sleep the night before: a couple of minutes.

      For WBTBs: Anywhere between 5 minutes to half an hour.

    15. #15
      Dreaming Californication Motley's Avatar
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      I see... So not that long.

      Now I don't know because I want to give this a try but I also started working a bit with MILD and don't want to stop.

      Again, I am where you were at the beginning- thinking about what technique to work on for a while. If i can't stay up long at night because of school, I should do MILD, right?

      Credit to Puffin for this amazing work of art!

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    16. #16
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      You could still WBTB if you wanted. My WBTB routine consists of getting up, going to the bathroom, and laying back down to WILD.

      That's something I forgot to touch on.

      If you wake yourself up too much during a WBTB, you won't be able to fall back asleep easily enough. Sure it's good for awareness, and that's why a majority of people recommend doing it, but if you can't fall asleep then you're SOL.

      I provided my solution to the WBTB issue, but some more experienced WILDers actually begin their attempts mere minutes after waking up. However, you really need to have a strong sense of awareness to do that.

      Beside that, MILDs are pretty awesome, and I don't want to dissuade you from pursuing proficiency in that technique, but WILDs aren't as time consuming as people make them out to be.

      Either way, what you decide to do is your choice.

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      Mzzkc, I have been working on WILD's every night, with the same patterns. However, for some reason I am not getting anywhere. I am doing everything by the book.

      My exact pattern:
      Go to sleep normally at 9:30
      Wake up at 3:30.
      I go to the bathroom. (1 minute)
      Lay down, make sure my alarm is on for class.
      I lay on my back with my hands at my sides, and I count.
      I usually pass 300, and then I guess I can say I give up. I don't feel anything different, no Paralysis, HI or anything.
      If I am not asleep already, sometimes I twitch. I would be thinking of something and I would twitch.
      For example, one day I played a good amount of Call of Duty. Memories of the gameplay were in my mind while I went to sleep. I have no idea if this could be classified as HI or something, but I see the scene in my head and not before my eyes like HI is supposed to be. If I would see like a player run by, instinctivly my finger would twitch where the shoot button would be on the controller.

      However, this is not my concern. I have not been able to reach SP or anything of that kind for over 2 weeks. My dream recall is at 3-4, and thats about it.. Still no Ld's or anything of that kind.

      Any ideas?
      -CV
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    18. #18
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      Technically, what you describes constitutes HH with a small bit of hypnic jerking thrown in, so you are getting somewhere. XP

      Question: Do you normally sleep on your back, or do you sleep on your side when not WILDing?

      That's important. If you normally sleep on your side, you'll want to make your attempts on your side as well. Hand and arm placement should also match your normal sleep position.

      If that's actually the way you go to sleep, then you might want to consider a different awareness technique, or at the very least try a little while longer. Your experiences indicate you're reaching the beginning stages of sleep. If you give up at that point, then you really aren't going to get anywhere. I personally don't give up on WILD attempts until I pass the 30 minute mark.
      Last edited by Mzzkc; 05-24-2010 at 11:05 PM.

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      I've been working more on this Wild technique and have had more success but I still have a little to many times where I loose my awareness as I enter the dream.

      It's a fine balance there to have just enough awareness to spot when you are asleep and then having to much awareness keeping you away from falling asleep.

    20. #20
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      Ah, fair enough Mzzkc. I usually do fall asleep on my side, however when attempting WILD's I lay on my back, and sometimes if I don't want to WILD one night, and I can't fall asleep, sometimes switching to my back works like a charm. I'll try a WILD on my side tonight, and see where I get. I won't give up this time. If I am tired, could you give me a very rough estimate of how long the count may be? I have tried the skip-counting, but it doesn't make much of a difference to me. I really hope to master the WILD by the end of the summer. I will have a LOT of time to dedicate

      -CV
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      If you spend a second on each count, no more than 1800. =P

      Again, just be sure you don't consciously control the counting. If you find that too hard to do, you might want to try a different awareness method. As it is, counting never worked well for me, but I don't see why it couldn't for someone else.

    22. #22
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      Wow 1800? Thats a bit high no? I asked Ninja about the counting thing, and I know its different for everyone but he said he usually is already in the Dream State at 250. Big difference there, but nonetheless its different for everyone. Last night, I did not wake to my alarm or maybe I just didn't remember. I'll put my alarm on the other side of my room this time.

      -CV
      Having Trouble With Dream Control and Clarity? Reflex Stabilization Technique

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      Took ~ 10 seconds for me some nights ago didnt count or anything but as soon as I mentally said, "okay, I'll enter SP willingly", a few seconds after that I was in. The willingly part is because I've always been afraid of sp, it wasnt til a few days ago that I found this site and learned more. So now I can easily WILD during nighttime after a few hours of sleep. What Im currently working on is successfully WILD during daytime, afternoon for example. No success so far... Havent spent more than 45 minutes on it each time tho.

      Btw ClearView, try and stop thinking about it? Use your ears instead, might sound weird.. But there is a possibilty to keep awareness simply buy listening. Not focusing too hard tho, still you need to allow your body to think that you're asleep. I usually start hearing vibrations after a while, sometimes as loud as drumming against my ears.
      Last edited by Genin; 05-25-2010 at 03:05 PM.
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      Wow 10 seconds really? I'll try listening, and I never get paralyzed but I don't worry about that too much.

      -CV
      Having Trouble With Dream Control and Clarity? Reflex Stabilization Technique

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      I have a question for you Mzzkc,

      You are saying that falling asleep is the most important step of a WILD, which I like because up till now I haven't actually read anything that places the due importance on actually falling asleep. Anyways I tend to be an "energetic sleeper" as I like to call it. Which means that my routine of falling asleep usually consists of much scratching, rolling, changing of positions, re-situating of blankets etc. and overall a lot of movement. Now for most of my WILD attempts I have stuck to the rigorous guideline of no-movement whatsoever. I have attempted WILD's both on my back and side, my side being my normal sleeping position. But I have never moved, this often results in me thinking about how much I would like to itch that itch in that spot, and that other spot, and that third spot, or me thinking of how nice it would be to move my hand out from under the much-to-hot blanket and into the relieving cool air of on top of my belly.
      Anyways you said; I quote:

      don't do anything you wouldn't normally do to help yourself fall asleep
      Does this mean that it is okay for me to partake in my normal falling asleep routine and still be able to WILD?
      or am I doomed to be mocked by unyielding itches on my face and other such places if I am to ever be a successful WILD'er?

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