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    Thread: Why You Fail at WILDs

    1. #51
      Member bbbblaahhh's Avatar
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      I love you. Seriously, I literally love you.

      Dear Mzzkc,

      You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

      I joined this site last night and read this thread last night.

      Taking your advice, I woke up after 6 hours of regular sleep with my alarm. I wrote my previous dream down in my journal, and tried your "shift" on the take of WILDing; changing the focus of WILD. I literally just let myself relax, but kept thoughts of lucidity and consciousness on the mind all the while.

      I had an hour+ long, photorealistic, fully conscious lucid dream. ._____.

      I really just shifted the focus of WILDing from staying awake while sleeping to falling asleep while conscious. Anyway, I fell asleep... there were a lot of gaps of consciousness before entering my dream -- periods of blank-mindedness, but really trying to be aware of everything the whole time -- which leads me to believe that I may not have awoken (with my 6-hour alarm) right before my next REM cycle. That I might have been too early with that alarm -- I might've needed to set it to 7 hours after I originally fell asleep.

      But during my sleep, I kept my conscious mind aware of it, accepting it. Before I knew it, I "fell" into my dream (I actually fell onto some pavement in my dream) and immediately asked myself, "Did I honestly just do that?" (meaning, did that WILD stuff honestly just work?)

      There's far too much to tell about my dream here, so I won't bother. I doubt this is even the place to do it.

      Anyway, I literally love you, and I thank you for one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. I'll never forget my first fully lucid, fully conscious dream.

      P.S. I'm not entirely sure if this would be considered a WILD. I fell asleep, and had that consciousness about me, and immediately recognized that the conscious sleeping had worked when I fell into my dream, but I didn't see hypnogogic imagery or feel sleep paralysis during this period of falling asleep. Do you think it was WILD?
      Mzzkc and AstralMango like this.

    2. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by bbbblaahhh View Post
      Do you think it was WILD?
      Most definitely. =)

      I am overjoyed I was able to help you have this experience.

      Seriously. That's the reason I wrote this whole thing up.

    3. #53
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      I must extend my gratitude as well! I worked diligently on WILDing for a long time a few months ago. I made what seemed like significant progress, but after a while of "close calls" any progress started to seem like teasing. I got frustrated and decided that WILD just wasn't my method. However the few times I did get really close, I didn't understand why. I think what you've described there might just be the key I was looking for. Starting in about 6.5 hours, I will begin trying again!

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      Quote Originally Posted by speesh View Post
      i must extend my gratitude as well! I worked diligently on wilding for a long time a few months ago. I made what seemed like significant progress, but after a while of "close calls" any progress started to seem like teasing. I got frustrated and decided that wild just wasn't my method. However the few times i did get really close, i didn't understand why. I think what you've described there might just be the key i was looking for. Starting in about 6.5 hours, i will begin trying again!
      SO, HOW'D IT GO?

      RIP Billy Mays

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      I will give this a go when I get home from work and report back with my experience.

    6. #56
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      how do you remain aware while falling asleep? To me, falling asleep includes forgetting the conscious world.
      (Since regaining interest in LDs)

      DILD: 7

    7. #57
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      I like the idea and had a good start with it, but same problem as always, I can't fall asleep and only get some weak HIs and SP. I tried it 3-4 times over 2 days and changed between counting in the back of my mind, repeating words or short sentences. I tried it at different times of the day, after a few hours of sleep and as a nap, but the idea might be ok, tried to Wild for many years now.

    8. #58
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      Quote Originally Posted by samf View Post
      how do you remain aware while falling asleep? To me, falling asleep includes forgetting the conscious world.
      I'll quote myself for this one.

      Quote Originally Posted by Mzzkc View Post
      There's a few good ways to do it: anchors, setting a 'reminder', straight-up willpower. and emulating thought patterns that occur when falling asleep are the ones I've found most effective.

      Anchors are pretty straightforward and should be well known enough that I don't need to explain them here. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

      The 'reminder' is something I developed awhile back when first experimenting with the idea. Essentially, you use prospective memory to set a 'sentinel of intent,' as I like to call it, to jolt you into consciousness the moment you feel the usual transition.

      Using willpower simply involves going to sleep while forcing yourself to stay aware throughout the transition. For it work properly, you have to stop controlling the direction of your thoughts, while still keeping a close eye on your mental state. It's not the easiest thing in the world, and definitely not my method of choice. I usually only use it when I'm exhausted, but I still have my mental faculties performing well. Actually, my last two failures were accomplished using this one.

      The thought pattern emulation actually evolved from my experiments with the willpower method. This time, you take full control of your thoughts, but direct them in such a way that each thought leads to a seemingly random associated thought, much like what happens when falling asleep. It takes some practice to get down, but I really like this one. The thought chains can be quite interesting at times.
      Those are just what I use personally. Your mileage will vary, so I highly suggest you figure out what works for you. Unfortunately, that's something you've got to do solo.


      Quote Originally Posted by exileblue View Post
      I like the idea and had a good start with it, but same problem as always, I can't fall asleep and only get some weak HIs and SP. I tried it 3-4 times over 2 days and changed between counting in the back of my mind, repeating words or short sentences. I tried it at different times of the day, after a few hours of sleep and as a nap, but the idea might be ok, tried to Wild for many years now.
      What's your mindset when making the attempt? What are you doing differently from how you normally fall asleep? Are you trying to recognize SP/thinking about it when you feel it? What were the times exactly, and how much sleep did you get on each day?
      Last edited by Mzzkc; 07-22-2010 at 05:41 AM.

    9. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mzzkc View Post
      What's your mindset when making the attempt? What are you doing differently from how you normally fall asleep? Are you trying to recognize SP/thinking about it when you feel it? What were the times exactly, and how much sleep did you get on each day?
      Normally I just go to bed and fall asleep in a few minutes, if it takes more time, then I listen to this weird whistling sound in my ears, it often speeds the whole thing up. When I Wild without your Idea in mind, I "try" to get SP and then I'm mostly stuck in my mind, I get short HIs but they disappear after a second. In the last days I started a new technique where I collapse every sensory information that I get, on a single point. After a short time of doing that, I come close do a dream-like state, but then I hit a wall, it's like I can't get more sleepy, but at the same time I can't fall asleep.
      While trying a WBTB, I'll sometimes just lose conciseness, fall asleep, but mostly because I'm to careful not getting too awake, because then I maybe couldn't go back to sleep.
      I never really think about SP, it just happens, especially because my Wild-tries often exceed 2 hours.
      I slept pretty normal while trying your idea, 7 hours at night (wbtb after 4-5 hours) and than again a short nap 6 hours after leaving the bed.

      edit:
      1. I never had the feeling that I could really enter a dream, it just seems like I imagine to start dreaming, but it won`t really happen = HI, only for short bursts I sometimes had seemingly real images that just lasted a second. For me it's like trying to achieve the impossible, but that makes it so interesting.

      2. It would be great, if you could explain your whole routine, what you do and think, so that I can better identify my problem. I never really read something like that from someone in this forum, who really "mastered" wilds.
      Last edited by exileblue; 07-22-2010 at 12:19 PM.

    10. #60
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      It's okay to swallow?! all this time I lived in a lie?
      I can handle without swallowing, but with swallowing it's easier!
      I got to a stage when my feet mooving like a flame(If I concentrate in them), but then my mind saying me to roll, and Im like"No! you can't fool me!"....but after few seconds I surender...so what do u advise me to do?

    11. #61
      Member bbbblaahhh's Avatar
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      Another

      Really?
      I just wrote up a huge thing for this thread and went to click "Go Advanced" and found out that I'd been signed out. I clicked back, dreading what I knew was to come, which was my wall of text, gone.

      Why was I signed out?

      Whatever. What I came to tell you was that I had another lucid dream, and I'm unsure of what I feel its classification is. I'd like to know what it sounds like to you.

      The facts:

      -thinking a lot about lucid dreaming before I went to bed
      -fall asleep as normal
      -woke up from sleep, with intent of going back to bed
      -perhaps, but cannot be sure, consciously made effort to use your method
      -fall asleep, directly into dream, with full consciousness right off the bat

      The full awareness right off the bat leads me to believe that it would be a WILD. With my other lucid dreams -- MILD and DILD -- there's always been some other dream material before the Point of Realization.

      However, I didn't feel like any conscious effort was put forth, like in my first WILD, which had led me to believe that I was responsible for the lucidity -- that it wasn't just a coincidence.

      P.S.: To anyone who is reading this: if you have other people in your house, always shut your door before you go to sleep. I woke up from this dream due to a door slamming downstairs.

    12. #62
      Member sydiswatching1's Avatar
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      I'm not sure how this method worked, but it did, I think. I decided to take a nap at 11 just because I was tired, not really thinking about trying to have a lucid dream, and I was in the middle of a dream completely aware that it was a dream. After seeing all the pairs of shoes that were in my room outside of a airport terminal thing, I went inside and saw some writing on the wall like in Portal. I remembered the things about sleep guards and was afraid it would say something like "Go bAcK To sLeeP." I tried spinning and rubbing my hands simultaneously so the words would be more clear, but all that did was wake me up to find I was in sleep paralysis in the most awkward position and that my heart was racing. I remember being calm in the dream, do you have any suggestions on how to not waken too quickly?
      "Flying is throwing yourself at the ground and missing."
      Goals:
      Fly a kite [] jump off of a building [] jump off of a building while dreaming []

    13. #63
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      Sorry for the late replies. I've been somewhat busy as of late.

      Quote Originally Posted by exileblue View Post
      Normally I just go to bed and fall asleep in a few minutes, if it takes more time, then I listen to this weird whistling sound in my ears, it often speeds the whole thing up. When I Wild without your Idea in mind, I "try" to get SP and then I'm mostly stuck in my mind, I get short HIs but they disappear after a second. In the last days I started a new technique where I collapse every sensory information that I get, on a single point. After a short time of doing that, I come close do a dream-like state, but then I hit a wall, it's like I can't get more sleepy, but at the same time I can't fall asleep.
      While trying a WBTB, I'll sometimes just lose conciseness, fall asleep, but mostly because I'm to careful not getting too awake, because then I maybe couldn't go back to sleep.
      I never really think about SP, it just happens, especially because my Wild-tries often exceed 2 hours.
      I slept pretty normal while trying your idea, 7 hours at night (wbtb after 4-5 hours) and than again a short nap 6 hours after leaving the bed.

      edit:
      1. I never had the feeling that I could really enter a dream, it just seems like I imagine to start dreaming, but it won`t really happen = HI, only for short bursts I sometimes had seemingly real images that just lasted a second. For me it's like trying to achieve the impossible, but that makes it so interesting.

      2. It would be great, if you could explain your whole routine, what you do and think, so that I can better identify my problem. I never really read something like that from someone in this forum, who really "mastered" wilds.
      I think I know what "wall" you're talking about. That happens to me sometimes, too. At that point, I'll either stop the WILD and take my mind off of the whole process for awhile by doing something else (like getting a glass of milk) before retrying, or simply give up my awareness exercise set a sentinel let myself drift off, and hope for the best. It really depends on my state of mind. The main idea here is that you want to distance yourself from the WILD as much as possible, if that makes any sense.

      I'd go over my usual routine, but I don't really have one. I just WILD when I can, accounting for variables and mixing methods as I go along.

      Quote Originally Posted by idanl09 View Post
      It's okay to swallow?! all this time I lived in a lie?
      I can handle without swallowing, but with swallowing it's easier!
      I got to a stage when my feet mooving like a flame(If I concentrate in them), but then my mind saying me to roll, and Im like"No! you can't fool me!"....but after few seconds I surender...so what do u advise me to do?
      Surrender faster, but don't pay it any mind. Moving only sets you back as much as you let it. Swallowing works in a similar fashion.

      Quote Originally Posted by bbbblaahhh View Post
      Really?
      I just wrote up a huge thing for this thread and went to click "Go Advanced" and found out that I'd been signed out. I clicked back, dreading what I knew was to come, which was my wall of text, gone.

      Why was I signed out?

      Whatever. What I came to tell you was that I had another lucid dream, and I'm unsure of what I feel its classification is. I'd like to know what it sounds like to you.

      The facts:

      -thinking a lot about lucid dreaming before I went to bed
      -fall asleep as normal
      -woke up from sleep, with intent of going back to bed
      -perhaps, but cannot be sure, consciously made effort to use your method
      -fall asleep, directly into dream, with full consciousness right off the bat

      The full awareness right off the bat leads me to believe that it would be a WILD. With my other lucid dreams -- MILD and DILD -- there's always been some other dream material before the Point of Realization.

      However, I didn't feel like any conscious effort was put forth, like in my first WILD, which had led me to believe that I was responsible for the lucidity -- that it wasn't just a coincidence.

      P.S.: To anyone who is reading this: if you have other people in your house, always shut your door before you go to sleep. I woke up from this dream due to a door slamming downstairs.
      That's a tricky one. In my book, it's a WILD if you go directly from being awake to being lucid within a dream. I would say you had a successful if wholly unintentional WILD, but others may disagree with me.

      Quote Originally Posted by sydiswatching1 View Post
      I'm not sure how this method worked, but it did, I think. I decided to take a nap at 11 just because I was tired, not really thinking about trying to have a lucid dream, and I was in the middle of a dream completely aware that it was a dream. After seeing all the pairs of shoes that were in my room outside of a airport terminal thing, I went inside and saw some writing on the wall like in Portal. I remembered the things about sleep guards and was afraid it would say something like "Go bAcK To sLeeP." I tried spinning and rubbing my hands simultaneously so the words would be more clear, but all that did was wake me up to find I was in sleep paralysis in the most awkward position and that my heart was racing. I remember being calm in the dream, do you have any suggestions on how to not waken too quickly?
      Erm, I'm not really sure if that constitutes a WILD, but for your dream stabilization issue, I'll point you to a decent resource.

    14. #64
      He Who Needs a New Title TheOneirologist's Avatar
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      All of this sounds really great! I've been trying to DILD and MILD since I joined this site, but this really sounds promising. I do have one concern: do you feel any more tired through the day after WILDing? I'm asking because school is coming back in less than a week and a half, and I don't know if I'll have mastered WILD by then. What would the consequences be of WILDing on a school night? If I can WILD every night without passing out in the middle of class, I'm all for it!

    15. #65
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheOneirologist View Post
      All of this sounds really great! I've been trying to DILD and MILD since I joined this site, but this really sounds promising. I do have one concern: do you feel any more tired through the day after WILDing? I'm asking because school is coming back in less than a week and a half, and I don't know if I'll have mastered WILD by then. What would the consequences be of WILDing on a school night? If I can WILD every night without passing out in the middle of class, I'm all for it!
      It depends on how long your WBTB is. WILDing itself isn't draining.

    16. #66
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheOneirologist View Post
      All of this sounds really great! I've been trying to DILD and MILD since I joined this site, but this really sounds promising. I do have one concern: do you feel any more tired through the day after WILDing? I'm asking because school is coming back in less than a week and a half, and I don't know if I'll have mastered WILD by then. What would the consequences be of WILDing on a school night? If I can WILD every night without passing out in the middle of class, I'm all for it!
      Every time I've done it, I certainly don't feel any more tired at all the next day. Then again, that's also because my WILDs haven't been excursions where I've had to act like a mummy for 2 hours. They were just like falling asleep normally, but with a little twist.

      Certainly WBTBs don't make one more tired, assuming that you're not missing out on large amounts of sleep.

      Also, if anything, I felt revitalized after my lucid dreams. In some ways, they made it much easier to shift between a sleeping state and a waking state, since you're kinda halfway there. Waking up felt more natural -- like simply awaking from a daydream.

      So I don't think it's a problem.



      Unrelatedly, I watched 2001: A Space Odyssey last night, and I finally understand your icon, Mzzkc. I swear I'd been wondering what it was since I posted in this thread.
      Last edited by bbbblaahhh; 08-01-2010 at 07:45 AM.

    17. #67
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      Quote Originally Posted by bbbblaahhh View Post
      Unrelatedly, I watched 2001: A Space Odyssey last night, and I finally understand your icon, Mzzkc. I swear I'd been wondering what it was since I posted in this thread.
      Haha, very nice.

    18. #68
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      Ok. If I may, I will recap.

      1.- I set my alarm 6 hours after I sleep.
      2.- I sleep like I normally would, without wild in mind.
      3.- I wake up due to alarm. Shut it off, go back to sleep while staying conscious (I will use counting as an anchor).
      4.- I LD.

      Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. I'm new to this, and I think wild is a good method to start out with.

      I will try this method tonight and post results. Assuming I have it right, of course.

      Best wishes. Goldenaxel321

    19. #69
      He Who Needs a New Title TheOneirologist's Avatar
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      From what I've heard, you should go to the bathroom or something after the alarm goes off. I don't think you're supposed to go back to bed immediately after the alarm goes off. I may have just misunderstood, though.

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      Try this...

      I have designed an Isochronic tone sequence specifically for use with WILD. This track is 20 minutes long, and takes you down to 6 Hz pretty quick. It stays there for the entire time so that you can relax and get comfortable and prepare for Transition. At 19:11 into the track, a trigger goes off. This is to pull you back from going totally to sleep, and hopefully will induce your LD. The track then fades to silence.

      You should download two files. One is the actual file. This is what you listen to. The other is the trigger file, which is the sound you will hear at 19:11.

      Follow these instructions:

      Download these files:

      1. WBTB WILD with trigger.mp3
      2. WBTB WILD trigger sound.mp3

      Prior to going to bed, or as often as possible, listen to the trigger sound, and say to yourself, "When I hear this sound, I will do a Reality Check". Do this as much as you can to prep yourself. The more you do this, the more effective this technique will be.

      1. After a WBTB, when you go back to bed, put on the headphones or earbuds (it might work with just loudspeakers because they are Isochronic, not Binaural). You should already be pretty tired, and able to fall in asleep in the next 20 minutes.
      2. Listen to "WBTB MILD with trigger.mp3", and concentrate on the whooshing sound while clearing your mind. Then, let your thoughts take you where they may, keeping in mind that you will hear the chimes. Don't concentrate or anticipate this, or it will NOT work. Just let your mind wander, keeping focus on nothing in particular
      3. At 19:11, you will hopefully be drifting off to sleep. You will hear wind chimes. This is your trigger.
      4. Do a RC immediately. Do it slowly, so as not to break the dream. Check your hands is the most effective. If you fail, try again from step one.

      P.S.: If anyone who tries it wants some of the parameters changed, let me know, and I'll personalize it for you. Attached is the beat frequency vs time. I picked 19:11 randomly looking at the graph, and guessing how long it takes after a WBTB, how long it takes to fall back asleep.

      Good Luck!
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    21. #71
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      Quote Originally Posted by goldenaxel321 View Post
      Ok. If I may, I will recap.

      1.- I set my alarm 6 hours after I sleep.
      2.- I sleep like I normally would, without wild in mind.
      3.- I wake up due to alarm. Shut it off, go back to sleep while staying conscious (I will use counting as an anchor).
      4.- I LD.

      Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. I'm new to this, and I think wild is a good method to start out with.

      I will try this method tonight and post results. Assuming I have it right, of course.

      Best wishes. Goldenaxel321
      Remember, this is an idea, not a method. Creating a decent method is up to you, I'm just providing you with knowledge to help you do so.

      Still, the only thing you have listed there that I wouldn't personally recommend is counting. I've never been a fan of it, since it sometimes serves to be counterproductive if you do it incorrectly.

      Good luck.

      Quote Originally Posted by TheOneirologist View Post
      From what I've heard, you should go to the bathroom or something after the alarm goes off. I don't think you're supposed to go back to bed immediately after the alarm goes off. I may have just misunderstood, though.
      WBTBs can be as long or short as you want. From a few seconds to an hour or two, whatever helps you get into the right mindset is ideal.

      Quote Originally Posted by ZoeSeeker View Post
      Stuff.
      That's not WILD material. It's closer to an EILD.

      Either way, it does not belong on this thread. I suggest asking to have it moved to its own thread so that it can be viewed and discussed properly. If you have any comments/objections to what I've said, please PM me; I'd really prefer to keep this thread as clean as possible.

    22. #72
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      It didn't work out for me. SP simply never happened. I think I'll try DEILD next. It's not a bad idea, it's just not for me. Thanks anyway.

    23. #73
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      Quote Originally Posted by goldenaxel321 View Post
      It didn't work out for me. SP simply never happened. I think I'll try DEILD next. It's not a bad idea, it's just not for me. Thanks anyway.
      If you were looking for SP or even expecting SP, then you were doing it wrong and didn't understand the idea at all. XP

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      He Who Needs a New Title TheOneirologist's Avatar
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      I'm really confused and irritated. A lot of times I can fall asleep while imagining something, but when I do that for WILD, I don't fall asleep at all for an hour or more until I give up. And as soon as I do so, I fall asleep and have a non-lucid dream. I know falling asleep is very important, but if you're not aware, you'll have a normal dream. How can I stay aware but fall asleep?

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      Quote Originally Posted by TheOneirologist View Post
      I'm really confused and irritated. A lot of times I can fall asleep while imagining something, but when I do that for WILD, I don't fall asleep at all for an hour or more until I give up. And as soon as I do so, I fall asleep and have a non-lucid dream. I know falling asleep is very important, but if you're not aware, you'll have a normal dream. How can I stay aware but fall asleep?
      I've covered several possibilities, in detail, throughout this thread. However, the bottom line is you're supposed to figure that out for yourself. To quote myself: "WILDing, like just about everything concerning LDs, is a personal experience. You can only get so far on the accomplishments of others. To truly be successful, you have to dig deep and do a crap ton of introspection in order to figure out what works for you and what doesn't."

      And yes, that was from the OP.

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