Thread: Lucid dreaming without methods of induction. Instant?

Yea, that looks pretty cool.. i cant wait to see some results with this...

i took a couple of days off using this and still had great dreams but nothing to write home about. tried it again last night and although i had no real immediate effects i had a fckin hefty lucid in the morning. its the only thing i can think of that really was different to the other days so going to keep trying it.

heres the journal entry

11/02/11

i went to a series of lessons, mostly on US obesity in a classroom at the top of a scyscraper in london. heights are a big dreamsign for me so i slowly caught on and started to do my usual disruption of the class while explaining that its only a dream to people. no one else seemed to catch on, but on the way out i explained to friends that i was now going to float around all the time just so people could no longer deny it was a dream often in lucids i fade out of lucidity easily, but floating was a great way of having a constant reminder that it was a dream. i exited the building and one mate agreed it was a dream which is rare and he was floating a bit too.

i came to a dead end school quad like building and my mate russ came out of the door looking really pleased to see me. i spoke to him clear as day and said "so is this just a normal dream, or are you astrally projecting or something". he is about the only mate i have that openly knows about this stuff and just said something like "well its more of a kind of dream within a dream kind of thing". i really need to listen to other people better... anyway he left and i floated up the building and noticed that inside the school each class wa being led by a foxman/man in a fox suit.

there were balconies all over the building like my old uni halls. i floated up them and started chatting to 2 girls and a boy i thought i recognised but cant place. i said something like "when someone floats past you thats usually a good sign that you are dreaming". the boy questioned me, something like "well if this is a dream what day is it"? i found it quite hard to access my real memory so said "hmm ive lost track, its about thursday i think". we thought about it and came to the conclusion that it was now friday wihch seemed right. i explained to them that since i had become lucid i was just trying to interact with people in that state and see how they reacted when i told them it is a dream. one girl said "dont do that its scary" and i said "what is scary about sitting up on a balcony drinking with a couple of mates in a dream?" she kind of agreed that it wasnt realy scary but still looked a little apprehensive

I tried using the online version of this last night, and my eyes didn't want to stay closed while the light was flashing. Weird.

Wow I just watched that for like 15 minutes. Had some real trippy imagery.

I can see it being useful for inducing HI, but if you tried to use this during a WBTB induction would it be too stimulating or would it be beneficial to see those shapes?

Originally Posted by dark_grimmjow

I think the only issue may be keeping them on your head while you sleep.

I sleep like a fallen log, so these glasses and my big Realistic Nova 44 headphones mostly stay put throughout the night.

Originally Posted by KristaNicole07

I tried using the online version of this last night, and my eyes didn't want to stay closed while the light was flashing. Weird.

Same here, but only when laying down. I had to rest my fingers lightly on my eyelids to keep them from opening.

Originally Posted by anderj101

I sleep like a fallen log, so these glasses and my big Realistic Nova 44 headphones mostly stay put throughout the night.



Same here, but only when laying down. I had to rest my fingers lightly on my eyelids to keep them from opening.

yep i did that too. it does seem to help if you relax your eyes as much as possible. almost like you are turning you eyes off and trying to see through your mind

this is kinda interesting, and i tried the computer dreamachine. i didn't really experience anything unusual. mcwilis what exactly are you doing? building a homemade nova dreamer?

Originally Posted by Wristblade56

this is kinda interesting, and i tried the computer dreamachine. i didn't really experience anything unusual. mcwilis what exactly are you doing? building a homemade nova dreamer?

Before I answer your question I have been doing background research on the safety of this and am comfortable with doing an extended session today. Onto your question. With a nova dreamer you put it on and go to sleep. When you dream you are in REM sleep which is an acronym for Rapid Eye Movement. Your eyes move from side to side very rapidly. The nova dreamer detects these eye movements and then flashes LED's so that you will experience an aspect of this light in your dream which will hopefully alert you to the fact that you are dreaming. A dream machine is completely different. It is to be used whilst fully awake. It is a visual method of brainwave entrainment and as Brion Gysin discovered visual brainwave entrainment can induce a lucid dream whilst being fully awake.

How long do I have to wait for it to work?

Originally Posted by Jac

Why do some people always connect these ld's, obe's, sp, etc with the spiritual world or anything similar extraordinary. There are some sad people in the world.

Although there is a lot of contention regarding lucid dreams, astral travelling and spirituality there seems to be a general consensus amongst the Eastern disciplines that there are seven planes of existance.

Physical
Astral
Mental
Bhuddic
Atmic
Anupadaka
Adi

The astral worlds are far more extraordinary than the physical. No wonder this forum has had over a thousand visitors a day. I have travelled further than the astral plane and it hasn't instilled a feeling of sadness in me. Instead it has filled me with jaw dropping awe and trembling humility.

Originally Posted by atkins513

Yea, that looks pretty cool.. i cant wait to see some results with this...

I hauled my LED glasses and the oscillator box over to my bed to incorporate them into an experiment last night. The results were quite incredible. Here is the applicable excerpt from my Full Dream Journal Entry.

I climb into bed and put my flashing LED glasses on. I set the brightness very low and set the speed to approximately 12Hz. I slowly turn up the brightness to a comfortable level. At first, geometric patterns begin to form in a chaotic fashion. The patterns slowly move around and form into structures. They are becoming well organized, sliding around and fitting together like puzzle pieces. Once the puzzle completes the assembly of itself, the texture of the patterns melt into a solid white plane that seems to maintain sync with the flashing. As my brainwaves try to stay in sync with the flashing, small corrections cause the flashing to become very apparent for split seconds until my brain corrects the synchronization. In my experience of electronics, it seems that my brain was functioning like a PLL (Phase Locked Loop) circuit, making minor realtime corrections to maintain a frequency lock with the reference source, the LED glasses. After about 5 minutes, I remove the LED glasses while keeping my eyes closed.

All I can say is "WOW!" They didn't give me a headache or cause any problems other than making my eyes water a little too much. Maybe I had them turned up just a little brighter than I really needed.

Did you get any actual visualizations or any vivid scenery from this? Where you able to get lucid after taking the glasses off?

Originally Posted by atkins513

Did you get any actual visualizations or any vivid scenery from this? Where you able to get lucid after taking the glasses off?

I took them off, then rolled over and proceeded to WILD for the first time. This led me into the most epic series of lucids and false awakenings I have ever had. During the dream, the lightning vortex I saw in the mirror after the third FA (5th paragraph) resembled some of the visuals the glasses gave me. I put together a composite image and added it to my DJ entry, in an attempt to reproduce some of what I saw. + Click here to see the full Dream Journal Entry +

I am currently trying to build a programmable timer so I can attempt to have the lights come on just as I enter REM sleep. This should make things really interesting.

This was an interesting experiment and I think it may show exactly how this device can be used. If the device will not shift the mind into sleep mode through the frequency of flashing, then it may be possible that it can prepare the mind for sleep mode through watching a particular frequency of flashing.. then taking the glasses off and attempting to wild may be the way to go.. The Journal Entry was great.. I would like to see much more of this and it looks very promising..

Unfortunately for the last two days I have been swamped with outside commitments to do another test run after allaying my fears. I also have a slight illness so until I am better I won't bother with an attempt.

Anderj101 those are extremely promising results. Have you had success with WILD before? I feel it is a shame that you were on a massive amount of chemical compounds as that may have heavily influenced and even caused your WILD instead of your Gysin dream machine.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Anderj101 those are extremely promising results. Have you had success with WILD before? I feel it is a shame that you were on a massive amount of chemical compounds as that may have heavily influenced and even caused your WILD instead of your Gysin dream machine.

Honestly, I just came out of a 3 month dry spell and wanted to start things off with a bang. I'm quitting tobacco, so I smoke organic herbal cigarettes now. It's a custom blend I developed that tastes really good. The Galantamine was certainly responsible for the insanity of it all.

That was my first successful WILD. I never made it past 20 minutes of the body vibrations without moving one of my legs and screwing it all up.

I am awaiting a new programming cable for my PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) module so I can set it up to provide the pulses and serve the timer functions. Once that arrives, I will give the dream machine another shot without any other aides. It was very awkward trying to adjust the trainer box without being able to see it, not to mention that it has exposed AC connections just underneath the panel. My PLC has shaped buttons on it that are very easy to locate and use without sight of them, plus I can program in unique beeps to let me know if I'm adjusting the speed, pulse width, or brightness. Eh, what can I say? I'm a total tech geek!

So has anyone tried using the online version on a WBtB?

I just finished writing my PLC code to control the glasses. One mode will start the flashing right away and slowly fade the brightness after 30 minutes. I'll try using this for my next WILD (without supplements). The other mode will delay for n minutes, then slowly fade in the flashing, then slowly fade out after a set time. Hopefully I can get the timing so that this happens shortly after entering a dream.

As far as flashing speed, I'm considering starting with 12Hz again. I'm open to suggestions and will report any results.

The next several days will be spent adjusting the timing so that they will start flashing at exactly the right time. Wish me luck!

Originally Posted by Lost_prophet

So has anyone tried using the online version on a WBtB?

not until tomorrow morning, cheers for the reminder, will report back

I tried the online dream machine just there:
Sitting up
Dark room, monitor was the only light source
Close to a large monitor
About five minutes long

The result was a series of weird geometric patterns, usually in red from the light shining through my eyelids, they almost seemed to be just caused by the flashing as a trick of the light, but it was clear they were HI because I was able to rotate them and control them to a certain degree. I didn't feel any physical sensations and I doubt it could induce a WILD, but I still reckon there's something in this.

All of this reminds me of my experiments several years ago.
I have a mind machine light/sound, like the one shown in the initial video.
I also have a novadreamer, but have not really had much luck with that.

The L/S machine really does drive brainwaves and because of this, is not always suitable for inducing lucids.
I have not been able to go straight into a lucid type dream with the device and have used it many, many times at pre-programmed frequencies. Some people including myself that have used it have had at times vivid images appear to them, from faces staring back at them to finding themselves in vivid green fields. But these images are always fleeting as the driven brainwaves are so tight, that the mind cannot go into the direction it would like to see more.

However, over the years I have come to the conclusion that whilst the machine is on, you are not going to experience a lucid dream. BUT, the brain does resonate with those same frequencies for hours after a session and this can be useful.

A few years ago, I developed a series of frequencies in a program that lasted for about 40mins I believe. I still have the program on my mind machine and could check it out again. I found that when the program finished I felt very tired and would then switch the unit off and just lay back in bed and try to sleep.
On every occasion after the program was played, I consciously moved into sleep paralysis and on several occasions these went into lucid dreams/OOBE.

It can be done, but more research has to be done. Flashing lights will entrain the brain too tightly and the chances are that you will not experience lucid dreams whilst the unit is on, as the frequency driving will not allow it to happen. But it can be done after if you hit the right frequencies.

If you have heard of the book (Advanced lucid dreaming), then you may have heard of the author. He was connected to an ecg and his brain waves were monitored whilst he lucid dreamed. It was found that his brainwave frequencies peaked occasionally at 9Hz every time he went lucid, so look at this frequency or there about’s to help with this experiment , but also understand that these 9hz came in quick burst of a second or so every now again only.

Hope this helps.

Also, it is sometimes more helpful to have the led's at low light instead of bright, as the lower the brightness, the more the brain can over-ride the frequency driving and move into the direction it wants to move into itself.

You might find this interesting.

Mind Machine Experiments and Lucid Dreaming | Dreaming Life

Something else of interest...

Brainwave Entrainment for Lucid Dreams - Dreamviews Lucid Dreaming Community & Resource

Why exactly are we trying to induce Alpha waves? All my knowledge of brain waves and their relation to sleeping/waking states comes from Wikipedia, but it doesn't seem that Alpha waves have much to do with REM sleep, what Magus posted regarding using Binaural beats seemed far more useful.