Thread: Lucid dreaming without methods of induction. Instant?

I used to have the NOVA dreamer machine. I didn't really find it that useful. It gave strange colours in dreams but nothing that said 'I must be dreaming now'

Can anyone ever lucid without methods of induction, and think & do nth at all, jus lie down as if u're sleeping, and just wait for it to take u? Are there such cases yet?

Originally Posted by Duo

Why exactly are we trying to induce Alpha waves? All my knowledge of brain waves and their relation to sleeping/waking states comes from Wikipedia, but it doesn't seem that Alpha waves have much to do with REM sleep, what Magus posted regarding using Binaural beats seemed far more useful.

Duo,

When we enter rem sleep, most of the time we are in theta brain waves. If however alpha should kick in whilst still having strong theta, then we will become more aware and conscious. We can experience alpha, that produces a relaxed but aware state, hence lucid dreams.
Theta will produce dreams, but depending how much alpha is present will depend on how much awareness we have in the dream state. If you have no alpha you will not remember your dreams at all...

Ah, I figured that out about half an hour after I posted that, thanks for clearing that up.

I don't know if it's off topic, but I'm gonna try the Binaural beats tonight, I will report back in the morning (GMT) to tell you what happened.

Well, I got shafted by technology because my phone decided it was going to switch to the next track and my left earphone fell out (I'd use headphones, but I don't own any) so not much to report there really.

Hi all,

WHITE LED 'BLUE LIGHT' output - IMPORTANT!
I touch on what IMG stated on an earlier post on this thread regarding the light output from the dreammachine, etc.
"...Another point is that in the video the machine uses an incandescent light bulb which emits no blue light mainly red which if it did would upset the light to dark sleep rhythm of the mind...maybe you may want to use orange or red LEDs. White LEDs in particular have alot of blue light so I think I would avoid those..."

Note that I highlighed the sentence regarding the avoidance of using 'White' LED's. I would have to agree that the use of White LED's in such projects as this should be avoided where possible.
'White' LED's are reportedly up to 10 times stronger than their Red LED counterpart.
If you do a Google search on the subject of Blue Light radiation (from the LED) you will find interesting reading:
For example: Artificial Lighting and the Blue Light Hazard

Read that article (especially about the LED) & draw your OWN conclusions.

Don't think that I'm being a killjoy. I think it would be safer to use the 'standard' Red LED at a low level.
I know some will keep the eyes closed with the LED's flashing, so you would see 'red' due to the eyelid / blood vessels, etc. anyway.

From the posts I have read: Inc. the stuff about the Gysin 'dream-machine', that it is a device for inducing Hypnagogic type Imagery rather than any 'lucid dreamstate' by producing 'alpha waves'. Shaman's, etc. practiced this thousands of years ago after finding out that staring in front of a burning fire that the flames induced a type of 'trance' state.

...And no I don't suggest setting fire to your bed!

Originally Posted by LucidPower

I used to have the NOVA dreamer machine. I didn't really find it that useful. It gave strange colours in dreams but nothing that said 'I must be dreaming now'

i guess it could be helpful if you spend enough time concentrating on using seeing colours as a dreamsign. its incredible how much physical info you still take in while dreaming. i had a bit of indigestion the other night which translated into the dream as having a mouthful of food which i was trying to find a place to spit out

Ik a lot of people said that it helped but my case is different. I don't get HI. Like I don't see color when I close my eyes in total darkness. I try the online dream machine and I have huge colors and shapes floating around in my vision. I was amazed. Lastly non of the other color LEDs effect me other then white so i don't care about hazards to much

I think this machine LINK seems to be working in a similar way. The blinking lights wake you up in dream. Hope it gets funded so I can try it out

Originally Posted by atkins513

The discussion I want to bring up here is the discovery that a dream state was triggered by light rapidly flashing onto the closed eyelids of a man (Brion Gysin) while on a train. Sunlight supposedly flashed through the window as he passed tree's, buildings, and other objects, and while he was fully awake, he had a full 3d vivid experience. The man then created a lamp and shade system that recreated flashing lights at a certain frequency and was said that this triggered the vivid life experience, that we today know of as Lucid Dreaming.

"He built the Dreamachine in 1961. Described as "the first art object to be seen with the eyes closed",[12] the flicker device uses alpha waves in the 8-16 Hz range to produce a change of consciousness in receptive viewers."

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Watch information about it here.





The news story above shows a very fast flashing light imitating this and the news anchor seems to have some incredible experience from it. This is not an advertisement for the link in the video as I have heard the company involved may be unreliable.

What is this? Is this something anyone has experimented with or used? Is it the same as a real life wild or even something worth experimenting further with?

A search in these forums for Brion Gysin turned up nothing of signifigance so I thought this may be worth our discussion here.

There is a free version of this machine via website to be used with a laptop or computer. Using it I get weird visualizations, but have never tried it more than a minute or two.. also.. I read that the lights have to be very bright and that a computer probably cannot re-create the effect so I don't count on this as a test but more as a light example.

THE ONLINE DREAM MACHINE

After reading all the information above, what do you think?
Anyone have any experience with this?

I have looked at pictures and had dreams about them.

Originally Posted by KristaNicole07

I tried using the online version of this last night, and my eyes didn't want to stay closed while the light was flashing. Weird.

My dream machine is quite intense and I can understand why your eyes did this. I have downloaded an app on my phone where I can strobe the camera flash and set it to different frequencies.

Lucid dreaming can be induced intensionally, or variables like looking at pictures, song etc can bring it on.