Thread: Permanently increase dream vividness?

Originally Posted by Sageous

I don't mean to be argumentative here, Chewnie91, I'm just trying to hold to my point that lucidity is not about vividness. The two are often together, sure, and you can certainly develop a "vividness" scheme that will bring about LD's, as you've successfully done with ADA, but the vividness was only a tool toward achieving lucidity, and not lucidity itself. So I'd refine your formula slightly by saying more vivid dreams = better chance of noticing oddities = the potential to achieve lucidity. This is obviously not a bad thing, and I'm not trying to disparage it -- I'm simply putting out a caveat: if, like Sanjayb, you are new to LD'ing, and you establish a fundamental mindset that vivid dreams = LD's, you might have some trouble becoming truly self-aware in your dreams.

The refined formula you mention here rings true to me, and I think I mentioned something similar in another post.

Thanks for linking your Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals thread here too - it was a great read and based on your arguments and experience I'm pretty convinced that awareness should be the goal to strive for while attempting to LD. I'm gonna do my best to shake the idea that vividness is all important.

That being said, I can't deny the fact that all my LD's so far have been driven by noticing oddities in extremely vivid dreams (or do you think here that i'm using the word vividness as you would use awareness?). Do you have any suggestions as to how I could be more aware / move my focus away from vividness?

Thanks again for sharing the knowledge! Hope you don't mind answering a few more questions!

I say the above because in the subsequent days to my first post, i've been focusing my mantras on increasing vividness - and while my vividness has certainly increased, my self awareness has not increased proportionately. That kind of led me to think that I may be barking up the wrong tree!

Your not barking up the wrong tree vividness is still important. Which is why you have achieved Lucids through the dream environment. However self awareness will truly induce more lucids. Self awareness is the ultimate goal of lucid dreaming. Its not the easiest to explain how to achieve or how you know you've achieved it. Which is why I said it differs from person to person

Originally Posted by Sanjayb

That being said, I can't deny the fact that all my LD's so far have been driven by noticing oddities in extremely vivid dreams (or do you think here that i'm using the word vividness as you would use awareness?). Do you have any suggestions as to how I could be more aware / move my focus away from vividness?

First: in the end, Sanjayb, anything you do that induces successful LD's is a good thing; don't get me wrong. Now:

I'm pretty sure you're not confusing vividness with awareness, but that's more for you than me to work out -- I could be wrong. That really doesn't really matter, though. What does matter here is that you have vividness in your dreams, and you've already proven to yourself that you can use it as a tool for lucidity. Might as well put it to work for you...

What I would suggest is using that vividness as a tool to build your self-awareness; instead of trying to push it away, gather it in close to you: during waking life ADA practice (which you might consider doing if you're not already) or in dreams try to include yourself in the many many things you notice. When you do, ask yourself, thoughtfully, what you have to do with all this stuff, and what it has to do with you. Really build your involvement, your presence, into your observations, making your "self" not just an additional detail, but the detail around which all the details are emerging. This "center of your own universe" stance might sound a bit selfish, especially in waking life, but only if you take it that way. What it really is is a way to center all the complexity (vividness, in the dreams) that you're observing while remembering that a dream is your own universe, so if you're in the habit of recognizing your place at its center, your sense of self, and lucidity, will likely improve -- thanks entirely to vividness! If you can do that well, I have a feeling you'll be able to eventually incorporate stronger self-awareness into your life and your dreams -- without stepping away from the valuable, exciting tool that is vividness.

I say the above because in the subsequent days to my first post, i've been focusing my mantras on increasing vividness - and while my vividness has certainly increased, my self awareness has not increased proportionately. That kind of led me to think that I may be barking up the wrong tree!

Perhaps the modification above will help. Also, with all apologies to Chewnie91, you might indeed have the wrong tree, but it's a very nice tree with excellent fruit, and it's not the only one in the forest. Trust me, I could build a sizable mansion with the wood from all the trees I've barked up over the years! Also, vividness is an excellent tree to discover, don't leave it behind.

I hope that helped; if not, feel free to ignore!

during waking life ADA practice (which you might consider doing if you're not already) or in dreams try to include yourself in the many many things you notice. When you do, ask yourself, thoughtfully, what you have to do with all this stuff, and what it has to do with you. Really build your involvement, your presence, into your observations, making your "self" not just an additional detail, but the detail around which all the details are emerging. This "center of your own universe" stance might sound a bit selfish, especially in waking life, but only if you take it that way. What it really is is a way to center all the complexity (vividness, in the dreams) that you're observing while remembering that a dream is your own universe, so if you're in the habit of recognizing your place at its center, your sense of self, and lucidity, will likely improve -- thanks entirely to vividness! If you can do that well, I have a feeling you'll be able to eventually incorporate stronger self-awareness into your life and your dreams -- without stepping away from the valuable, exciting tool that is vividness.

Great advice there.

Thanks! I hope Sanjayb considers it.

Don't eat for an hour or two before bed. Drink water before bed. This usually increases vividness for me.

you might indeed have the wrong tree, but it's a very nice tree with excellent fruit, and it's not the only one in the forest. Trust me, I could build a sizable mansion with the wood from all the trees I've barked up over the years! Also, vividness is an excellent tree to discover, don't leave it behind.

Regardless of whether vividness is the wrong tree to be barking up, I'm still glad its in my forrest, as you would say Sageous. I've started working on ADA but will also have a look at more of your links to understand what u mean by your 'center of your universe' stance as I don't think I fully understand exactly what that entails yet.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Thanks! I hope Sanjayb considers it.

Just wanted to say Thanks to all for the advice especially Sageous and Chewnie91!