A little BIG problem. I can't be the only one..

**Tangoromeo** · 04-04-2014 05:58 PM

Hello everybody, im making this post because im having a hard time falling asleep when i do WBTB and I hope some of you can help me with this because its really annoying.

For example yesterday I woke up at 4:50 AM to do WBTB with SSILD techinques, and i was lying there and a wave of something invade me, I try not to focus on that and Seconds later it was gone. The last time I've seen the hour was around 6:30 AM. So i was 1 hour and a half awake! I cant afford losing so much sleep so if anybody has any tip/adivce I would love to hear.

Thanks a lot.

**AstralMango** · 04-04-2014 08:10 PM

SSILD is known to give false awakenings, so you might have been doing the cycles in a dream. Either that, or you were focusing too much on the senses when you're supposed to do the cycles 'lazily and without thought'. Hope this helps a bit!

**Tangoromeo** · 04-04-2014 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by AstralMango

SSILD is known to give false awakenings, so you might have been doing the cycles in a dream. Either that, or you were focusing too much on the senses when you're supposed to do the cycles 'lazily and without thought'. Hope this helps a bit!

I forgot to mention that yes, I did plenty of RC to make sure.

Ok Going to try that to make them lazily thanks a lot!

**Goldenspark** · 04-04-2014 08:22 PM

I've had the same problem with WBTBs. I can't really offer any help. I tend to either lay awake for ages or fall asleep - no in-between!
The only thing I can suggest is to try and vary the timing of when you wake for the WBTB, and try to vary the time you stay awake for. Try jst a few seconds all the way out to 1/2 hour of being awake.
I haven't really experimented with that myself, mainly because I have been concentrating on trying to DILD.
I'm now trying WBTB again to give it another go.

**Tangoromeo** · 04-04-2014 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Goldenspark

I've had the same problem with WBTBs. I can't really offer any help. I tend to either lay awake for ages or fall asleep - no in-between!
The only thing I can suggest is to try and vary the timing of when you wake for the WBTB, and try to vary the time you stay awake for. Try jst a few seconds all the way out to 1/2 hour of being awake.
I haven't really experimented with that myself, mainly because I have been concentrating on trying to DILD.
I'm now trying WBTB again to give it another go.

The same exact thing happen to me. It s a pitty because i.think wbtb s are one of the most powerfull techniques to lucid dream.
I was reading the rild technique and sound interesting I would send you later vía pm.

What were your results when you were experimenting with wbtb?

Thanks.

**Goldenspark** · 04-05-2014 11:27 AM

Hey TR, I just can't seem to get MILD or DILD to work, but maybe I'm too impatient and not dedicated enough. I've had a few short LDs with natural WBTB/WILD, but usually I have to wait for at least an hour to get that to work.
I've more recently tried supplements, and they definitely work, but I've so far only had ONE slightly longer DILD with supplements (about 25 very short LDs).
I have a theory that the reason WBTB/WILD takes so long is that I ususally do it after naturally waking, which is at the end of a REM cycle, so that means that the brain chemiistry is probably wrong to get straight back into REM, and I have to wait until the next REM cycle comes along. If you assume a 90 minute cycle (which is about right for me), and about 1/2 an hour at the end being REM, that means one hour from the end of one REM cycle to the beginning of the next.
Of course fretting and stressing while trying to WILD could extend that further, so it seems logical to me that an hour to an hour and a half would be normal.

What to do? The best way would be to only just wake up at the beginning of a REM period, stay very still and do a DEILD, but I haven't had much success with that either because I can't seem to keep still.

I have a cunning plan that I am working on - may broadcast it later if I have some success.

**Tangoromeo** · 04-05-2014 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Goldenspark

Hey TR, I just can't seem to get MILD or DILD to work, but maybe I'm too impatient and not dedicated enough. I've had a few short LDs with natural WBTB/WILD, but usually I have to wait for at least an hour to get that to work.
I've more recently tried supplements, and they definitely work, but I've so far only had ONE slightly longer DILD with supplements (about 25 very short LDs).
I have a theory that the reason WBTB/WILD takes so long is that I ususally do it after naturally waking, which is at the end of a REM cycle, so that means that the brain chemiistry is probably wrong to get straight back into REM, and I have to wait until the next REM cycle comes along. If you assume a 90 minute cycle (which is about right for me), and about 1/2 an hour at the end being REM, that means one hour from the end of one REM cycle to the beginning of the next.
Of course fretting and stressing while trying to WILD could extend that further, so it seems logical to me that an hour to an hour and a half would be normal.

What to do? The best way would be to only just wake up at the beginning of a REM period, stay very still and do a DEILD, but I haven't had much success with that either because I can't seem to keep still.

I have a cunning plan that I am working on - may broadcast it later if I have some success.

That sounds great!

Im curious about how do you wake up naturally to do these WBTB´s. Would you please explain this to me?

I have only tried WBTB with an alarm clock and so far I have one DILD. With 5 attempts more o less. Another thing that is usually happening to me is that the alarm goes off to make a WBTB and I without knowing I turn it off, the next day I woke up with little memorie about how I turn it off without wanting to.This sucks.

However the DEILD technique before entering REM sounds clever.