Sleep Cycles (what time do you wake yourself up?)

[moSh]

I'm currently trying to work out the best time to wake myself during the night, in order to remember an extra dream. I've been using the Sleep As Android app to record my sleep cycles so that I can get a vague impression, though I don't think it's massively reliable. The good thing about it though is that you can set it to wake you up after a cycle, roughly around the time you've set your alarm, so you don't have to be overly specific! One question I have is how systematic are sleep cycles? Are they generally the same length throughout the same period of sleep? I know that the length of NREM/REM periods change over time, but does this change the overall length of the cycle or do they increase/decrease in proportion? I think from my limited anecdotal experience that my sleep cycles are generally around 1:45; will this change through the night or could this be something to stick to? From a look at my graphs on this app, it seems an REM cycle often ends not long before the 5-hour mark. I know it's different for every person, but can anyone attest to this? Is this too early to get a solid dream? Much love.

[RelaxAndDream]

not actually a specific answer to your question but: After every sleepcycle (at the end of the REM phase) one naturally has a microawakening. normally one just turns around or dribbles a little and falls asleep again. but with a little practice you can notice those awakenings. Reasons to do so: -no need for an alarm to wake up for WBTB -best recall because you awake after every REMphase and therefore has fresh memory of last dream -you can refresh your intention for lucid dreaming everytime before falling asleep again -etc. how to?: -drink some water before going to bed so you awake naturally without an alarm - my suggestion/recommendation: _simply_ set intention to do so: use a mantra like " i will awake after every dream and remember my dreams. repeat it every night until you fall asleep. within some days of practice you will notice more and more natural awakenings and recall dreams! this is the best time to have a notepad next to you and just tag with 3-5 words the dreams you remember. at the morning you can dreamjournal like you always would do. repeat the dream in your head and look out for clues where you have had become lucid. carry out the intention to notice next time you are dreaming and you will get lucid.

[moSh]

Thanks for the suggestion! I have been meaning to try out mantras so maybe this is the motivation I need. I'll probably set one alarm anyway just so that I've got at least awakening, but I'll try to wake up naturally more often until I no longer need the alarm.

[RelaxAndDream]

mantras work like a charm. its all about a strong intention that you engrave with your mantra into your subconsciousness. do really mean it and want it and it will work pretty soon! Good Luck! [Edit]: To answer your initial question: Normally one wake up after 4-6h of sleep, its a little try and error to find the sweetspot after a REM and not at the beginning of a sleep cycle. But again when you notice your awakeneings you always wake up at the right time and not randomly get torn out of your dream by an alarm

[TravisE]

I'm a bit late here, but I feel RelaxAndDream has the right idea. Sleep cycles tend to follow a typical pattern, but they're not generally going to be exact. I'm not necessarily saying alarms can't work, but it will probably be a bit hit or miss at least some of the time even in the best case, and they can have the disadvantages mentioned. I personally happen to use the “natural awakening” strategy myself. After a while of practicing recording my dreams during any awakenings I happened to have in my sleep periods, I just started tending to wake up on my own after most of my sleep cycles, allowing me several opportunities per night to recall and record previous dreams. Nowadays, it simply happens, and I never really have to think about or plan for it.

[cooleymd]

If I weren't under stress and sleeping normally I would try to wake at 3hrs 4.5hrs 6hrs 7hrs 7hrs40min and each 40min thereafter the best way to achieve this is to drink a bunch of water during the evening and night you might not wake at the expected time, but you will wake from a dream (you might not realize it of course, so try and try to recall)

[moSh]

cooleymd: Is there a reason you chose that particular pattern? After 3 hours, then 1.5, then 1.5, then 1, then 0.5(ish)? I appreciate all your inputs, but this links to one of the questions I had that hasn't seemed to be answered: does your sleep cycle stay generally the same all night, or does it change with some degree of predictability? For example, if mine tends to be 1h45, will it be longer/shorter as time goes on? Or will it be roughly 1h45 throughout? I understand it's a rough science, but I'm talking generally (and primarily just out of interest).

[cooleymd]

My first sleep cycle (under normal conditions, I am under huge stress at the moment and wouldn't be surprised if I barely remember any dreams for the rest of the year, assuming I survive) usually lasts 3 hours because I use 5HTP to shift my deep sleep forwards and REM back, but the time is determined by actually waking after this first dream (so it is actually two conjoined sleep cycles). The next sleep cycle is about 90 minutes for me but with more REM at the end (also it might be abbreviated on the front end if I can't get back to sleep quickly it is always a trade off waking back up fully to record full dreams or going back to sleep quickly (some get around this by hanging audio recorders from the ceiling and just reaching up to activate them and blurting out their dream then roll over and sleep)) the next cycle will also be approximately 90 more minutes but after this you will mostly dream each cycle. and so the cycle will shorten be aware you will also already have 6 hrs of total sleep / attempted sleep and this is all most people seem to routinely get. The next cycle if you have it will be the last normal cycle, it will be maybe 60-75 minutes at this point you will be approaching 7+hrs of total attempted sleep (what most people would aim for as a full nights) after this you're really just napping. If you want to figure out your cycles then just drink lots of water and don't worry about recall, journal only one thing: like (tried to sleep 9pm) woke 10:30 bathroom, woke 12:00 bathroom, woke 1:25 bathroom, woke 2:45 bathroom, woke 4:00 bathroom, woke 5:00 bathroom etc you will find them pretty regular (don't forget to drink each time) one your napping you should find it harder to get to sleep but once you fall asleep you may begin to dream almost immediately so if you woke at 5:00 and got back to sleep at 5:12 you might wake from a 20minute dream at 5:40, then get back to sleep at 5:55 and wake from a 20+ minute dream at 6:25 the best way to find out is to develop the habit of waking after dream you can do this with the water and with setting just one intention "I will wake after my dreams" you don't have to mantra 'I will drink water' or 'I will look a the clock' or 'I will right down the times' you just have to do them, and it won't matter if you remember any dreams at all, you will still know when your cycle ended if it is 2X the time you expected then you didn't wake after one (or only micro awakened and didn't remember, record, or drink) if you want to see some of my actual times look at my past competition where I try to sleep as much as possible and record my times and titles of dreams those are actual times and dreams over a 14 day period. here should be link to last night of last competition just click on double arrows below ... looks like I sucked more than I thought in that competition here is a better night for completeness ... looks like also so much attempting to sleep even on days off is shifting sleep thru day and also causing insomnia from too much sleep but another example ... if you just try the water and awakening times you should get good data tho