Something every LD'er should know, click here.

**Jeff777** · 09-11-2007 11:46 PM

Hey guys, this will be pretty short. From reading over the questions posed to me by many attempting the "Trick your body into fall asleep while keeping your mind awake" method...it's become quite apparent that a majority of the people i'm approached by have similar problems that they can't seem to shake, but in my opinion are the easiest to solve. These problems i'm referring to are as follows...Attempting to LD at night, how to keep your eyes from moving/opening, how to stop swallowing (or at least how to do it without reseting your internal clock), and the "wave" of Sleep Paralysis. Although i've posted some very helpful information to assist you with said information in the aforementioned link, i'll go a bit more in depth here.

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Q: Why don't I ever seem to succeed when Ld'ing at night!
A: Because you're doing it...at night. Look, LD'ing or having an out of body experience without a couple of hours of sleep under your belt is as i've said time and time again "like fighting an uphill battle." It's not easy, believe me I know...but keep at it. And to add more credibility to WBTB's i'd like to inform you that 99% of my LD'ing and OBE'ing success has been because i've gotten sleep first and woken up after a few hours, only to go back to bed again. Don't make it harder on yourself...but if you still don't believe me and you're of the mind "Jeff, wtf do YOU know!! I'm gonna do it wheneva wheneva wheneva I want!". Fine go ahead. But let me explain something to you first. Your body is a chemical producing machine. It produces certain chemicals to keep us functional on a daily basis. The chemical responsible for awareness/clarity/consciousness dwindles down through the day from being used and only through sleep can that chemical be increased. My point being, biologically...it's harder to LD at night.

Q: My eyes won't stop twitching and moving! It's hard to keep them closed and whenever I get deeply relaxed...they want to open again!!

A: Got a case of the "over-eager and don't want to stay closed eye syndrome?" Copyright Pending. Sadly folks close-sesame won't work for this. The thing you MUST understand is that your body is a complex machine...your exterior is physical and there are certain things you must do for/to it if you want it to work in your favor. Again, i'm coming from a scientific and biological standpoint regarding this matter. You see the thing about your eyes is that throughout the day they are constantly on the move (this is called "micro-movements"), looking in many many directions, literally moving thousands of times before you turn in for the night. So your eyes are on redbull, what can you do? Work WITH the body versus against it. Before you attempt to do your LD, (If you haven't done a WBTB and you're just doing it straight off) Turn your lights off 30 minutes prior to attempting (Yes, stay in a dark room for 30 minutes...this gives your eye muscles a chance to relax without trying to keep them forced-closed. This works wonders for me...100% success rate wonders. A very dimly lit room can work as well, but it's not as effective as total darkness. I'll illustrate this point in a scenario i'm sure everyone is familiar with. While in a dark room, sleeping at night...ever had someone come in your room and turn on the light only to find this upsets your eye muscles and you quickly find yourself squinting so as to let as little light in as possible? Your eyes hurt just a bit because they have "adjusted" to the darkness, just as they'll have to "readjust" to the light. If you decide to WBTB before attempting, then the lights off or dimming isn't necessary pre-WBTB, though it is necessary your lights be off when you wakeup...during your WBTB time, keep your lights dim, preferably off. How important are the eyes you may say? The eyes don't matter that much you may think? The eyes are a critical component when it comes down to WILD'ing, whether you're moving your arms or you're moving your eyes...you're still moving and that can halt your chances of success.

Q: I can't stop swallowing! Everytime I try and focus on stopping myself from swallowing, I do it even more...it hurts and the saliva wells up in my throat! help!
A: Ah yes, now we're down to the infamous swallowing. Fold a towel and place it under your head to tilt your head slightly up so that saliva can naturally slide down instead of welling up at the back of your throat. That's about 30% of the victory when it comes down to not swallowing. The other 70% is by NOT FOCUSING ON YOUR THROAT. So many people will tell me "Jeff, I can't help it...I tried so hard not to swallow but then..." Energy flows where attention goes and attention goes where energy flows. What's that mean? That means the more you focus/direct your thoughts to something, the more you're going to increase that things chances of occuring. Sort of like the law of attraction. I had the hugest problems with trying "not to swallow"...but that only ended up in me doing it more and more. Focus/direct your thoughts to something else...monitor your body passively and let it do it's job without you focusing on every aspect of what's going on...what job is that? (TO GO TO SLEEP)

When I stopped focusing on my throat and tilted my head up...swallowing when attempting a WILD was never a problem for me again. In the end, if you have to swallow...let it be something that's natural where you almost don't notice it...instead of consciously debating in your mind when the urge presents itself, whether you're going to or not.

Q: I've never felt a "wave of energy" when attempting, i'm a failure!
A: And you very well may never feel this "wave" i've heard so many talk about. I can recall only experiencing this "wave" once when transitioning into sleep paralysis. In my experiences with sleep paralysis...i've sunken through my bed, felt this "wave" of energy, felt vibrations, heard very loud beating on my bedroom door, and heard horrible blood-curdling screams right outside my bedroom door. These are (but not limited to) what you may experience. The buzzing sensation, ringing/roaring in the ear, and music being played are things that are a common occurrence during sleep paralysis...though i've never experienced them. Point made.

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To each and every one who has been trying and progressing (And by progressing, I mean learning more and applying what you're learning to change the results you're getting; eventually yielding better ones) I'm proud of you and through persistence and competence...I don't doubt that we will eventually reach our goal of being able to LD/OBE on demand.

I hope this helps.

**Abra** · 09-11-2007 11:59 PM

I can't wait to hear what you have to say!

As far as swallowing, I can go for at least an hour without swallowing. Sometimes I'll swallow with no concious thought, and feel like I've somehow just screwed myself up... But does it actually matter?

**Clairity** · 09-12-2007 04:58 AM

Oneironaut_Jeff777, great post!

**Jeff777** · 09-12-2007 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Abra

I can't wait to hear what you have to say!

As far as swallowing, I can go for at least an hour without swallowing. Sometimes I'll swallow with no concious thought, and feel like I've somehow just screwed myself up... But does it actually matter?

Hi Abra

The swallow reflex can be troublesome if you let it get to that point.

Originally Posted by Clairity

Oneironaut_Jeff777, great post!

Thanks Clairity

**Sniper991122** · 09-13-2007 05:40 AM

My problem is in controlling the wave that you speak of... if I do wbtb I can feel that wave almost everytime I wake up and go back to sleep and usually in a matter of 4-5 seconds. It also has a sound like my ears are about to pop or something is closing in on me. The only problem I have is that I'm aware of the wave and I move my eyes slightly taking me to a higher level of consciousness. Eventually I just end up passing out without 'staying up'

what can I do to embrace the sleep paralysis?

**Jeff777** · 09-13-2007 08:43 AM

By doing just that, "embracing it". Don't move your eyes.

**The Question** · 09-18-2007 12:16 AM

WOAH! Great post! This covers basically all the questions iv seen about this! Good work man, il try this again tonight!

**awesomeoclock** · 09-18-2007 09:14 AM

I tried this last night, but started to let my mind fall asleep a little, and then right before I was about to pass into full sleep, my body had a huge jolt/twitch, and I ended up really hurting my neck... Then I couldn't get back to sleep for over two hours.

Also, for a few seconds after the twitch, I didn't open my eyes, and it felt really tingly, and I felt like I was looking really, really deep into empty space.

**Jeff777** · 09-18-2007 09:15 AM

wow, that's some muscle twitch...

**sea bee** · 10-12-2007 01:59 AM

Oneironaut Jeff777:
Thanks for the great posting and valuable information. If I may question you regarding what is called "false awakening."? I have the salt-cube CD and found it great. It also discusses "false awakenings" too. But somehow I still don't understand what they are? How are they different than being in a normal dream. I don't have a clear understanding of the two. Are you still dreaming during this time?
Thanks for any help. Best, sea bee (a sailor forever)

difference between the two.

**Oneironaught** · 10-12-2007 02:16 AM

As far as swallowing goes: just swallow and don't worry so much about it. If you don't waste time and focus worrying about it it won't matter at all, meaning it won't affect your efforts in the very least.

**KuRoSaKi** · 10-12-2007 03:05 AM

This is one of the more helpful posts I have seen come up lately. Thanks for the helpful information I'm sure it will help a lot of people.

**Mman19** · 10-12-2007 03:20 AM

Yeah, the thing that is the most annoying for me is when I get itchy when I'm trying a WILD. It pretty much ruins it.

**Jeff777** · 10-12-2007 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by sea bee

Oneironaut Jeff777:
Thanks for the great posting and valuable information. If I may question you regarding what is called "false awakening."? I have the salt-cube CD and found it great. It also discusses "false awakenings" too. But somehow I still don't understand what they are? How are they different than being in a normal dream. I don't have a clear understanding of the two. Are you still dreaming during this time?
Thanks for any help. Best, sea bee (a sailor forever)

difference between the two.

Taken from Wikipedia

A false awakening is an event in which someone dreams they have awakened from sleep. This illusion of having awakened is very convincing to the person. After a false awakening, people will usually dream of performing daily morning rituals, believing they have truly awakened. A dream in which a false awakening takes place is sometimes colloquially referred to as a "double dream", or a "dream within a dream".

I hope that helps if not let me know and i'll go in depth for you.

**DreamChaser** · 10-13-2007 09:24 PM

This is why I focus on a different place or room to start my dream in.
Why is it so important to start your dream from your bed in your room?
It creates so many more problems and questions to deal with than is already needed in this process.
You have the universe to be at, yet many want to be in their boring room.

**Jeff777** · 10-14-2007 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by DreamChaser

This is why I focus on a different place or room to start my dream in.
Why is it so important to start your dream from your bed in your room?
It creates so many more problems and questions to deal with than is already needed in this process.
You have the universe to be at, yet many want to be in their boring room.

The bedroom is a place where many people can relax and are more familiar with, and thus attribute feelings of peace and serenity to the bedroom. It is very good that you do not need this as a crutch but others do, and there is nothing wrong with that.

**Xaqaria** · 10-14-2007 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by DreamChaser

This is why I focus on a different place or room to start my dream in.
Why is it so important to start your dream from your bed in your room?
It creates so many more problems and questions to deal with than is already needed in this process.
You have the universe to be at, yet many want to be in their boring room.

Also with WILD's, sometimes its just a matter of your bedroom being the last thing you saw awake, so it becomes the first thing you see when you open your dream eyes.

**DreamChaser** · 10-14-2007 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Also with WILD's, sometimes its just a matter of your bedroom being the last thing you saw awake, so it becomes the first thing you see when you open your dream eyes.

Maybe I should get on that wagon. Missed a LD this morning.
Tried WILDING for 90 mins and finally gave up and fell asleep.
Looking at my room is my next quest.
Any tips for the future if you wake up and can't get back to sleep after RCing and stating the normal chants?

**Jeff777** · 10-14-2007 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by DreamChaser

Maybe I should get on that wagon. Missed a LD this morning.
Tried WILDING for 90 mins and finally gave up and fell asleep.
Looking at my room is my next quest.
Any tips for the future if you wake up and can't get back to sleep after RCing and stating the normal chants?

Usually if I've woken up too much and I find myself unable to go back to sleep when it's time to WILD, I will layoff the technique(s) and just try and fall asleep in the regular way I would until I feel sleepiness setting in (It's important to keep your clarity/awareness passive) then I will go back to the technique now that being sleepy is no longer a problem.

**blakkin** · 10-18-2007 03:53 AM

The only thing I notice as I relax when trying to wild is light. I see purply-whitish swirls float around, and fade out, and thats what i focus on.

Anyway, I was looking at these... and I felt a distinct like... shift, i guess. I was looking at them, and all of a sudden... it felt like I was deep in them and they were all around me. It felt darker... blacker... and just like deep. it was really weird. What was that?

Also, twice, I've had my eyes move around under my eyelids when trying to wild. But its not at the start, like you seem to be saying... it happens as I feel more numb, relaxed, and closer to SP. All of a sudden, they start freaking out... hugely. The first time I tried, it felt like one of my eyes went in a full circle. i can't possibly keep my eyelids closed, they get forced open. Any advice?

Thanks for this thread

**Jeff777** · 10-18-2007 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by blakkin

The only thing I notice as I relax when trying to wild is light. I see purply-whitish swirls float around, and fade out, and thats what i focus on.

Anyway, I was looking at these... and I felt a distinct like... shift, i guess. I was looking at them, and all of a sudden... it felt like I was deep in them and they were all around me. It felt darker... blacker... and just like deep. it was really weird. What was that?

Also, twice, I've had my eyes move around under my eyelids when trying to wild. But its not at the start, like you seem to be saying... it happens as I feel more numb, relaxed, and closer to SP. All of a sudden, they start freaking out... hugely. The first time I tried, it felt like one of my eyes went in a full circle. i can't possibly keep my eyelids closed, they get forced open. Any advice?

Thanks for this thread

Hello blakkin! thanks for stopping by

To answer your first question regarding the purplish white things you see in your closed eyes...I would have to say it's H.I. (Hypnagogic Imagery). It sounds dead-on to H.I. actually.

And before I answer your second question let me ask you a question first. Have you done the method I recommended for energetic eyes?

**samorau** · 10-22-2007 09:49 AM

Hi jeff! i've been trying this couple of times and every time i fail. the problem is not staying still, the problem is what's happening after 30-45 min of stayin still. my whole body goes crazzy, tears are commin from my eyes and i feel weakness troughout body. i can overcome that but then happens something really wierd... i can't feel my body anymore exept head and arms, the rest of the body is totally numb. whole body, from feets to neck is up in the air. i know it's not really but i feel it that way. and i can't fell asleep. whats the problem, am i doing something wrong here?

help pls!

**Altair** · 10-22-2007 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by samorau

Hi jeff! i've been trying this couple of times and every time i fail. the problem is not staying still, the problem is what's happening after 30-45 min of stayin still. my whole body goes crazzy, tears are commin from my eyes and i feel weakness troughout body. i can overcome that but then happens something really wierd... i can't feel my body anymore exept head and arms, the rest of the body is totally numb. whole body, from feets to neck is up in the air. i know it's not really but i feel it that way. and i can't fell asleep. whats the problem, am i doing something wrong here?

help pls!

This happens to me too except it happens a lot sooner than 30 mins. I always thought this was my body making me unconfortable but maybe that's me in SP? Anyway I can never go to sleep like that and my mind always has some way of convincing me that I'll never sleep like that so I move

I think it just takes a lot of willpower. If I stay like that long enough though, I no longer become aware of my body at all, I feel enclosed in my mind.

**Jeff777** · 10-22-2007 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by samorau

Hi jeff! i've been trying this couple of times and every time i fail. the problem is not staying still, the problem is what's happening after 30-45 min of stayin still. my whole body goes crazzy, tears are commin from my eyes and i feel weakness troughout body. i can overcome that but then happens something really wierd... i can't feel my body anymore exept head and arms, the rest of the body is totally numb. whole body, from feets to neck is up in the air. i know it's not really but i feel it that way. and i can't fell asleep. whats the problem, am i doing something wrong here?

help pls!

Try doing a relaxation exercise before your attempts. Breathing exercises work wonders for me and I suggest you try one as well. Also do not forget, it's very important to stay calm throughout your experience.

**pepsibluefan** · 10-22-2007 02:20 PM

My problem is, I feel creeped out in my room. I'm sorry but its just flate out creepy at night and I end up not doing it because I feel uncomfortble.

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