Did you notice the anmount of posts about WILD?

[adraw]

I noticed. As probably anyone here the number of posts about WILD. People are somehow not satisfied with what they read and what they get in that vast numbers of variations. What do you think, why do people ask so many questions about wild? What do you think is wrong with the techniques {if something}? Do we have enough wild variations? In this thread, i would like to see more of this kind of questions. Even better. I would like you to think about this "problem" more. Be creative. It doesnt hurt. You are dreamers.

[Kael Seoras]

I have read in a lot of posts here that WILD is very hard, and indeed I myself find it hard. Perhaps we are trying to make it easier?

[Moonbeam]

What do you think, why do people ask so many questions about wild? What do you think is wrong with the techniques {if something}? Do we have enough wild variations? I think it sounds appealing to go straight from being awake to being in a lucid dream, without having to practice recall, remembering dream signs, incubating, etc. However, it is very hard for many people, and actually I think DILD is really the easier way if you are not one of the lucky ones for whom WILD comes easily. I am not a good WILDer so I can't comment about the techniques.

[Mes Tarrant]

I think a good bulk of the questions come from people who haven't read any of the tutorials, honestly. I don't really think we need more techniques, because all of the techniques are fundamentally the same. Creating even more would just confuse people, I think. People also ask a lot of questions about WILD because it seems to be the most exciting technique of achieving lucidity. Some people assume it's the best one, or the only one.

[Lucidipedia]

I agree, and posted a similar question a while ago about the lack of popularity of the WBTB technique. As was pointed out to me, the tutorials section covers virtually any technique.

[adraw]

I have read in a lot of posts here that WILD is very hard, and indeed I myself find it hard. Perhaps we are trying to make it easier? Good point. I talked a lot with experienced people and they tell me exactly the same. Still. There is a barrier between our knowledge and theirs. The barrier called experience. . Would be worth experiencing. If you would like to participate in one unification experiment, take a look at: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=52550 I think it sounds appealing to go straight from being awake to being in a lucid dream, without having to practice recall, remembering dream signs, incubating, etc. However, it is very hard for many people, and actually I think DILD is really the easier way if you are not one of the lucky ones for whom WILD comes easily. I am not a good WILDer so I can't comment about the techniques. Pretty interesting in my opininon. That seems to be really the truth. We are often in search for ways how to cheat our brain. And the ways are already there.l Perhaps another kind of technique? Actually. Is there someone, who wrote a guide just about this: I am bad visualiser, more tactile oriented, little nervous..... -> try physical wild {as referred to BillyBobs guide} becouse ...... You get what I mean. I think a good bulk of the questions come from people who haven't read any of the tutorials, honestly. I don't really think we need more techniques, because all of the techniques are fundamentally the same. Creating even more would just confuse people, I think. People also ask a lot of questions about WILD because it seems to be the most exciting technique of achieving lucidity. Some people assume it's the best one, or the only one. All techniques are fundamentally the same. Yeah. Thats it. The variations of the experiments bring biases into techniques. Actually there is only one WILD technique, which consists of steps, which are different for people who are different. Hmm. Also would be cool if you took a look at the link i posted in previous response. There is a proposal, which could narrow this all. One generalisation, to make new WILD aspects{and other aspects} more controllable. Actually. There are tutorials {mostly from BillyBob} which are trying to make a map of all important techniques. Lets move furhter. I agree, and posted a similar question a while ago about the lack of popularity of the WBTB technique. As was pointed out to me, the tutorials section covers virtually any technique. Hmm. Yeah. Covers. Does it cover for whom are which techniques good? I couldnt find. Thats, what i am searching for. I know. I cannot get all information in a world. Experiencing wouldnt be fun that way. But still. Even organising is learning.

[Mrs. Jones]

no.

[Kael Seoras]

Another possibility could be that there is no one specific technique that is a one-size-fits-all, so to speak. All our minds are different, we all need slightly different ways of performing WILD. But when someone finds that way for themselves, they post it saying "this is the way that works!" or whatever and soon we have a bunch of posts of specified manifestations of WILD, each which work for a few group of people, when really there should be one general technique that everyone can work with and modify for themselves as necessary, without posting it as a different, better form of WILD. I hope that all made sense.

[westonci]

for me WILD Lucid dreams are a lot more vivid and clear than a DILD's. Second theres different type of WILD. Via sleep paralysis or visualization When i lay in bed during a brief awakening i visualize walking around the perimeter of my house and touching things as i go. Eventually my visualization turns into a dream and im automatically Lucid. When i achieve Lucid Dreams through visualization they can be astonishingly real.

[Kael Seoras]

But sleep paralysis alwas happens anyway right?

[Seeker]

Another possibility could be that there is no one specific technique that is a one-size-fits-all, so to speak. All our minds are different, we all need slightly different ways of performing WILD. But when someone finds that way for themselves, they post it saying "this is the way that works!" or whatever and soon we have a bunch of posts of specified manifestations of WILD, each which work for a few group of people, when really there should be one general technique that everyone can work with and modify for themselves as necessary, without posting it as a different, better form of WILD. I hope that all made sense. You are 100% correct, there is no one size fits all. The tutorials posted here at DV are starting points for members, not ending points. With these tutorials, a person can get off to a pretty good start and then fine tune to develop their own way. My WILD tutorial is probably the longest on the site about WILD and is pretty vague and open for a reason. Personally, I dont think Ive ever experienced two WILDs that were exactly the same and the same techniques don't work every time. The key is getting enough knowledge in peoples hands so that they realize when things are different and can adapt their induction to meet changed circumstances.

[Muad'Dib 007]

But sleep paralysis alwas happens anyway right? For most people, yes, but some people don't get it.

[unseen wombat]

I posted a couple wild threads myself. The reason is that even though I read, I think, every single tutorial on the site, I still can't get it. I don't know if it's just really that hard, or if there's some tiny bit of information I'm still lacking. If someone would just say, "Oh, you did that? No, try to do this," and it would work, all those tutorials would make sense, and maybe I would then understand why it hasn't worked all the times before. I'm still searching for that one tip that puts me over the edge. The closest thing I've found so far is the thread by Jeff that says to remain completely still and ignore minor discomforts your body throws at you. (In direct contradiction to what other people have said, that you should just scratch itches and readjust your position when uncomfortable, because after all, thinking about it just keeps your body from falling asleep). I think that's why there are so many WILD questions. People are getting contradictory information. One person says stay still, another says go ahead and move. One person says don't think about your body, another says it's okay to think about your body. Who's right? They both are, I guess, because they have had success with their own technique. For the rest of us, it's a confusing maze that we have to navigate, and it's just so frustrating to read "OMG! I did this last night for the first time and I had a half hour lucid!" when we're laying there for an hour and a half for the fiftieth try and nothing happens. That's what we want. Other people find a thread, tucked away maybe on page 5 of attaining lucidity, try it and get lucid the first night. I've read the Galantamine and Choline thread like 3 times now. I've read those stories over and over. G+C works for me, sometimes, but not nearly the 90% success rate some people say. I've tried the subliminal lucid mp3. Other people got lucid from it. I didn't. I've OD'd on GABA so hard that one time I couldn't go to work the next day (which was actually a pretty nice bonus. I h8 work). Some people get lucid from it all the time. I have sparse success from it. That's what we're all looking for. The thread that makes us into that person who says, "OMG, I've had a 90% success rate with this technique, or this supplement." That's why there are so many WILD threads. We don't want to rehash the same advice. All I see in most threads is people saying, "Oh, you should do it after WBTB. NEVER try WILD at the beginning of the night." Okay, great, I know you're trying to be helpful and I appreciate it, but I know that. I'm looking for something new, or maybe something I've overlooked, but not the same old advice I've already read in the tutorials. The key is getting enough knowledge in peoples hands so that they realize when things are different and can adapt their induction to meet changed circumstances. Thank you Seeker, for your tutorial. I don't want to seem critical, because I know you're honestly trying to help us. But vague and open ended is okay once you know what's going on. Like if I were laying in bed and the vibrations didn't start for 15 minutes as opposed to 5, I might say, "Okay, I need to use the visualization technique tonight," or on another night, I find myself unable to really concentrate, so I say, "I need to start counting backwards." I don't know if either of those things are right. They're probably totally unrelated. But when we have only vague information, it's like we're stumbling in the dark. We're just guessing what to do when "circumstances change" and I think in the majority of the time we don't even realize they've changed. I mean, which circumstance is really significant? Is it feeling a little cold? Hot? Is it not being able to hold an image in your mind? Is it that your thoughts keep drifting back to your body? Drifting in random directions? And even if we know what circumstances are important and can recognize when they've changed, what do we actually do? Sorry for the wall of text. I'm just one of the people who is still searching for my own holy grail, so I can put up post after post saying, "Yes, it worked again!"

[adraw]

I posted a couple wild threads myself. The reason is that even though I read, I think, every single tutorial on the site, I still can't get it. I don't know if it's just really that hard, or if there's some tiny bit of information I'm still lacking. If someone would just say, "Oh, you did that? No, try to do this," and it would work, all those tutorials would make sense, and maybe I would then understand why it hasn't worked all the times before. I'm still searching for that one tip that puts me over the edge. The closest thing I've found so far is the thread by Jeff that says to remain completely still and ignore minor discomforts your body throws at you. (In direct contradiction to what other people have said, that you should just scratch itches and readjust your position when uncomfortable, because after all, thinking about it just keeps your body from falling asleep). I think that's why there are so many WILD questions. People are getting contradictory information. One person says stay still, another says go ahead and move. One person says don't think about your body, another says it's okay to think about your body. Who's right? They both are, I guess, because they have had success with their own technique. For the rest of us, it's a confusing maze that we have to navigate, and it's just so frustrating to read "OMG! I did this last night for the first time and I had a half hour lucid!" when we're laying there for an hour and a half for the fiftieth try and nothing happens. That's what we want. Other people find a thread, tucked away maybe on page 5 of attaining lucidity, try it and get lucid the first night. I've read the Galantamine and Choline thread like 3 times now. I've read those stories over and over. G+C works for me, sometimes, but not nearly the 90% success rate some people say. I've tried the subliminal lucid mp3. Other people got lucid from it. I didn't. I've OD'd on GABA so hard that one time I couldn't go to work the next day (which was actually a pretty nice bonus. I h8 work). Some people get lucid from it all the time. I have sparse success from it. That's what we're all looking for. The thread that makes us into that person who says, "OMG, I've had a 90% success rate with this technique, or this supplement." That's why there are so many WILD threads. We don't want to rehash the same advice. All I see in most threads is people saying, "Oh, you should do it after WBTB. NEVER try WILD at the beginning of the night." Okay, great, I know you're trying to be helpful and I appreciate it, but I know that. I'm looking for something new, or maybe something I've overlooked, but not the same old advice I've already read in the tutorials. Thank you Seeker, for your tutorial. I don't want to seem critical, because I know you're honestly trying to help us. But vague and open ended is okay once you know what's going on. Like if I were laying in bed and the vibrations didn't start for 15 minutes as opposed to 5, I might say, "Okay, I need to use the visualization technique tonight," or on another night, I find myself unable to really concentrate, so I say, "I need to start counting backwards." I don't know if either of those things are right. They're probably totally unrelated. But when we have only vague information, it's like we're stumbling in the dark. We're just guessing what to do when "circumstances change" and I think in the majority of the time we don't even realize they've changed. I mean, which circumstance is really significant? Is it feeling a little cold? Hot? Is it not being able to hold an image in your mind? Is it that your thoughts keep drifting back to your body? Drifting in random directions? And even if we know what circumstances are important and can recognize when they've changed, what do we actually do? Sorry for the wall of text. I'm just one of the people who is still searching for my own holy grail, so I can put up post after post saying, "Yes, it worked again!" I think, we are not looking for a thread, we are looking for informations and impressions. Everytime we search this forum, we find another piece of puzzle. The think works, if we found all the puzzles and if we are in a right mood. We have many interesting techniques. Each is fine. Each gives us the clues we need, but which technique mentioned how should you feel before making the technique. What state of mind you should be at? There are not many of this kind. It seems that everybody tells us about the process, but nothing about themselves. But SUCCESS=PERSONALITY+STATE OF MIND+TECHNIQUE ITSELF. At the time people would talk less about techniques and more about their success stories, we would start to understand. IMHO. THans so far. This topic is becomming interesting.

[unseen wombat]

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. We need to know, "Okay, my state of mind is like this tonight. I worked out/didn't work out a couple hours before bed so my body feels like this. Therefore, I need to do this thing or that thing." Unless of course there's not one thing that will work for a given state of mind and body. I know it will depend on the person too. Maybe that needs to be added into the equation, i.e., "My IQ is this, I do this or that for a living," and whatever else is important in defining what type of dreamer you are (maybe those two aren't important at all). Then find someone else who is like you and use such and such a technique when you're in a particular state. I think we're just wishing here though adraw. I don't think we'll ever get anything but vague techniques and descriptions. It's up to us to just stumble through it all and hopefully, like the blind cat that catches a mouse, we'll find something that does work for us.

[adraw]

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. We need to know, "Okay, my state of mind is like this tonight. I worked out/didn't work out a couple hours before bed so my body feels like this. Therefore, I need to do this thing or that thing." Unless of course there's not one thing that will work for a given state of mind and body. I know it will depend on the person too. Maybe that needs to be added into the equation, i.e., "My IQ is this, I do this or that for a living," and whatever else is important in defining what type of dreamer you are (maybe those two aren't important at all). Then find someone else who is like you and use such and such a technique when you're in a particular state. I think we're just wishing here though adraw. I don't think we'll ever get anything but vague techniques and descriptions. It's up to us to just stumble through it all and hopefully, like the blind cat that catches a mouse, we'll find something that does work for us. And we will have lots of fun inbetween. Thats it. People here write techniques, becouse they would like to help {most of the time} and not for personal goals. Maybe some of the older members here could make a guide about what technique shouldnt miss to be at least a little bit relevant and interesting. Since then, we should read all of them. Who knows... Maybe we will find one which suits us fully. That could be a good question to open next part of this thread: What now. Would you invite a guide, how to write techniques? {just a suggestion}