Thread: Finally, A 10 second lucid induction! Title -*MFG*

Originally Posted by tommo

Dude, he's right.
This isn't 10 seconds either because it takes way longer to get the visuals.
DILD you already have the visuals and just suddenly realise you are dreaming so become lucid instantly. It just takes longer from when you start dreaming. Unless you get lucid a few second after your dream begins.

I think the question is when do you start timing from? What says this is 10 seconds? Is it from the time you lay down to the time you enter the dream? Or the time you start getting visuals to the time you enter the dream.

Completely agree.
There really isn't anything new here.
And calling it a 10 second induction so emphatically and to be frank, arrogantly, is meaningless.
If you actually read the "Technique"
the very first step requires you to sleep for quite a few hours... which in itself immediatly wipes out the 10 second claim. If you ignore that side of things, then when is this magical 10 second timer starting?
Also what here is really new and not just a rewording or hashing together of things that are already well known?

All thats really being said here is to focus on the tactile aspect of dream entry rather than the visual or auditory, which is a fair point, but dosn't qualify as a method in itself.

It makes sense that if you are visualising a dreamscene, to try and move in it.
Isn't that just obvious?
It's exactly what i'd do. Who visualises a dream scene and just ignores it and dosn't try and move into it?

I appreciate that people want to come up with techniques and have thier name put to it. Does that really mean we should just accept every variation on known methods as new techniques? I don't think so, maybe i'm alone on this, but i don't think i am.

It may just be hard for people to search through so many threads.
Like "VILD" for example.
Who would know to search for it if you weren't around as long as some of us.
So they just whack their method on.

Maybe the solution is to put a method on and make no claims or copyrights and see what people say.
If its new you will get only great feedback.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

I appreciate that people want to come up with techniques and have thier name put to it. Does that really mean we should just accept every variation on known methods as new techniques? I don't think so, maybe i'm alone on this, but i don't think i am.

You're not alone. It's starting to piss me off. Everybody is re-wording old techniques, not even solely old; these techniques are on wiki ffs, and then acting like they came up with it.
Then all these noobs come in, and I've even seen mods follow the crows, and give the person all this praise, and 'thankyou thankyou thankyou'.
No I'm not praise-deprived, but the praise or recognition should go to the creators of the techniques. WILD, VILD, WBTB, RC's etc.

Dreamchaser, it doesn't matter if they haven't been around as long as us.
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=66857
Every known, tested technique is in there.
People can adjust and twist it how they want, just as all these malac types have done.
As far as I can tell there will never be more than maybe two additions to that list. One would be some sort of way to instantly go into the dream world. Maybe some sort of drug which induces the exact same brainwaves as lucid dreaming. The other would probably be a device which does the same thing.
You said "Who would know to search for it if you weren't around as long as some of us." Who would know to search for Malac's grab technique?
Someone else is going to post the exact same thing in a few months except saying "when you see the dreamscape, lick whatever is in front of you". You see what I'm saying? It's exactly the same as rolling.

I guess what I'm saying is that none of these 'techniques' are unique. They are just people's personal twists on techniques.

True Tommo.
But would start to get boring if they didn't get a little imaginative.
Some points to them for effort though.

I agree all should go back to basics and stop looking for the Holy Grail, as no one thing will ever work for all.

Agreed, except for the boring part.

There is always something to discuss. Maybe people would help others more often.
Also noobs wouldn't think they have to do it an EXACT way.

Originally Posted by tommo

Agreed, except for the boring part.

There is always something to discuss. Maybe people would help others more often.
Also noobs wouldn't think they have to do it an EXACT way.

Well maybe they would be less confused.

*Snorts* The same couple guys that can't manage to do it start to find different excuses and insults, some not even related to the thread's topic. If you can't do it, go do something else. Also, "noobs"? Oh boy...

Anyways, I'm passed this project and found how to successfully WILD at will, if I'm in REM that is, and the *not disturbed by outside conditions* are right. Although it's easy, the current side effects that happen somewhat, if I fail, is SP. Most might say I didin't fail because SP can easily get you back in an ld, but as we all know, SP is annoying.. Everytime I get it, I just don't feel like getting another ld for the next couple minutes(sometimes) because SP is one of my turn offs...

I'll fix it soon anyways. After all the WILD techs Ive created, attempted, and seen, the induction that had it right the closest is the traditional visualization WILD. Closest but not exact. Its probably half-right there but has so many unnecessary steps and things to do, that I laugh thinking about it. There are methods of visualizing specific detailed landscapes to thinking of shapes, colors, and even preteending to smell and hear things. All unnecessery.

Yes, they can work, if you prefer wasting time and actually enjoy the fun action of hit and misses. Yea, I remember my first days of waiting for an hour, 2 if I was desperate, and sometimes had the luck of experiencing REM atonia (SP for the new guys). So let's look specifically on what people do on the traditiional WILD. First they would think of some mental goodies in their mind in a quiet boring night. Then if they could face the treacherous wait, the itching (and saliva for some), the inassurity of 'if you're doing it right', and various other factors, they would make it to SP. SP, the big cheese of the night, the reason why you woke up early and stayed awake for an hour. The sacrifices you made all comes down during SP. Will you make it into WonderSex Land, Kingdom of the Fairest Chicks, and also get to visit Elmo, your flying pet cow .... or will you stay in plain reality? Hit or Miss...Hit or..dammit it was a miss.

Then let me guess, everyone who missed their shot at lding thought of the nice things they could've done if they did make it.... I started to go off topic... Anyways, what I want to say is for people to find their own way to becoming lucid. It's truly the best way. Doing so, I been through a ride of discoveries and improvements. I found my way to ld using the necessary will ,and I hope for others to do the same thing.

P.S. Don't ask me how I WILD. Just practice WILDing, for months and years if you have to. It has a lot to do with simply the will of having one.

WILD in REM!?
Have you lost your mind?
That's called a DILD buddy.

Originally Posted by malac

"Separating the boundary between dream and waking reality is to realize, there is no boundary." -Me

You do realise your signature quote makes absolutely no sense?
It's confused, and it makes a point that then contradicts itself.

Firstly how do you seperate a boundary?
Especially one you then go on to say dosn't exist?
And... it then finally says, to realise that there is no boundary, you have to do somthing that you cant do, because it isn't there.
So it's a paradox.
(I know you'd love to be Morpheus, but sorry, you're not... that was a film)


Are you just trying to say "there is no boundary between waking and dreaming?"

Because there is, It's called falling asleep, or more often than not stage 1 sleep.

Because if there is no boundary, then waking and dreaming are the same thing. Which they are not.


Also, just for future reference, there is no such word as "inassurity".

If you wonder why I and others arn't taking you or your "methods" seriously, it's stuff like this, that is in direct contradiction to the rambling, self assured arrogance of your posts.

Originally Posted by tommo

WILD in REM!?
Have you lost your mind?
That's called a DILD buddy.

Lol I'll just let the dreamviews community laugh at you from this statement. Hurry! You might have time to edit it!

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

You do realise your signature quote makes absolutely no sense?
It's confused, and it makes a point that then contradicts itself.

Firstly how do you seperate a boundary?
Especially one you then go on to say dosn't exist?
And... it then finally says, to realise that there is no boundary, you have to do somthing that you cant do, because it isn't there.
So it's a paradox.
(I know you'd love to be Morpheus, but sorry, you're not... that was a film)


Are you just trying to say "there is no boundary between waking and dreaming?"

Because there is, It's called falling asleep, or more often than not stage 1 sleep.

Because if there is no boundary, then waking and dreaming are the same thing. Which they are not.


Also, just for future reference, there is no such word as "inassurity".

If you wonder why I and others arn't taking you or your "methods" seriously, it's stuff like this, that is in direct contradiction to the rambling, self assured arrogance of your posts.

With your irrelevant reply, I suggest you take the forum rules seriously and post it else where such as in a form of a pm.

Your trolling aside, my quote does make sense and you are an idiot to make a long post picking it by detail, only to be completely wrong. That statement means that there is a subjective boundary placed by people that dreaming and waking life, which Is the same, in place. I even don't have to tell that everything is subjective and that you're in your mind just the same as with a dream, right this moment. Go read a book or something if you still like to pull "facts" out of your ass with no knowledge of the world around you. Seriously go. To separate a boundary merely means to let go of it by realizing, there isn't one.

If that little statement a 3rd grader could understand riddled you, get out. As for my tech being serious, everyone does take it seriously except for the same old kids that never had it worked for them, so they have somehow assumed they have the right to judge it. It's like criticizing a movie they've never seen. I remember someone saying this is like a WILD. Hey bud, understand what a WILD actually is. Variations of WILDs mean different ways of entering a dream from waking consciousness. If you're comparing this to the traditional wild, as in just visualizing, then again, you've never done this before and just judged an unseen movie. If you hate other methods unlike the "first" WILD, what is your purpose of being at Dream views in Attaining Lucidity? Else, go contribute something and not leech.

As for my character? You don't know me at all so don't assume such things and try to bash someone. You 2-3 guys that waste your time in here criticizing are obviously still trying to attempt MY tech, why else would you be in here? Its been established that this works effectively, so there's nothing to refute on that. We've established the requirements of visualization and the steps involved, so why ask questions that many people answered? I mean, you guys don't possibly have the free time and life to go on internet forums to try to diss someone lol? Right?

Originally Posted by malac

Lol I'll just let the dreamviews community laugh at you from this statement. Hurry! You might have time to edit it!

With your irrelevant reply, I suggest you take the forum rules seriously and post it else where such as in a form of a pm.

Your trolling aside, my quote does make sense and you are an idiot to make a long post picking it by detail, only to be completely wrong. That statement means that there is a subjective boundary placed by people that dreaming and waking life, which Is the same, in place. I even don't have to tell that everything is subjective and that you're in your mind just the same as with a dream, right this moment. Go read a book or something if you still like to pull "facts" out of your ass with no knowledge of the world around you. Seriously go. To separate a boundary merely means to let go of it by realizing, there isn't one.

If that little statement a 3rd grader could understand riddled you, get out. As for my tech being serious, everyone does take it seriously except for the same old kids that never had it worked for them, so they have somehow assumed they have the right to judge it. It's like criticizing a movie they've never seen. I remember someone saying this is like a WILD. Hey bud, understand what a WILD actually is. Variations of WILDs mean different ways of entering a dream from waking consciousness. If you're comparing this to the traditional wild, as in just visualizing, then again, you've never done this before and just judged an unseen movie. If you hate other methods unlike the "first" WILD, what is your purpose of being at Dream views in Attaining Lucidity? Else, go contribute something and not leech.

As for my character? You don't know me at all so don't assume such things and try to bash someone. You 2-3 guys that waste your time in here criticizing are obviously still trying to attempt MY tech, why else would you be in here? Its been established that this works effectively, so there's nothing to refute on that. We've established the requirements of visualization and the steps involved, so why ask questions that many people answered? I mean, you guys don't possibly have the free time and life to go on internet forums to try to diss someone lol? Right?

I'm bored of being patronised by a schoolkid.
I'm over twice your age and have been lucid dreaming since before you were born.

Why do I come to DreamViews?
Because i was hoping to discuss lucid dreaming with like minded intelligent adults who have them. Not get caught up in some "badge of honour" technique developing childishness.
It's not all about methods.

Actually, maybe im not alone in thinking that it would be really nice to have an over 20s area to the forum?

And basically I do have the time to be critical of things which i think are misleading and incorrect. Lucid Dreaming has enough nonsense attached to it as a subject without people adding more.

I find your methods to be misleading and your tone to be arrogant and condecending. There are some people here who post methods with titles like "my own personal method for lucid dreaming" I don't criticise them because they are being humble and sharing. You on the other hand clearly want to be seen as some kind of lucid dreaming expert, and word your methods like they are gods gift to lucid dreaming.
You're just another person like the rest of us. Get over your ego.

I'm not getting into this discussion any further i've said what i want to say, and i don't like to argue with people who are still at school.

By the way, someone who is critical of you is not a troll, a troll is someone who goes onto a forum to cause problems. I generally try to be helpful, in fact i think it is being helpful to point out that your methods and your attitude are misleading and flawed.

And you're wrong by the way, you cant perform a WILD from REM.
The very first letter of the acronym WILD says it all "WAKE"
And I think everyone knows that REM doesn't occur whilst you are awake.
So how can you have a Wake initiated lucid dream, from within a dream?

Anyway, im bored of making your thread look important.
I've said all i need to say, anyone with intelligence can read through the method and the thread and come to thier own conclusion. Anything more would just be arguing. I've made my point, it's up to people to make thier own choices as to who sounds more convincing.


your statement:

That statement means that there is a subjective boundary placed by people that dreaming and waking life, which Is the same, in place.

Again this makes no sense, because the english used is so badly constructed.
Did you mean to write "which are the same"?
and did you need to put "in place." at the end of a sentence that had already used the word "placed"?
And no, the boundary between wakefulness and dreaming is not subjective. It is an objective provable fact.

Now now children.

You are both acting childish.

and an adult would not rise to the bait given, and not correct grammar either. That seems a little childish in itself.

If you two don't stop....I'll turn this car right around.

@spaceexplorer Ha, the guy goes straight to insulting my character again! That's it? Don't think just because you have nice grammar that it makes you intelligent. Why would I want to check my spelling and grammar on here? I don't even take you as a serious person, but laugh at how you continue to make yourself look like an idiot and now at your deluded idea of how "special" you think you are just because of your mature age of 50+. So prestigious...oh how I wish I was your age. If you really are twice my age, then that should make you 38. So why do you persist on sounding like a child that wants to get back at me, or whatever personal reason you have against me.

As for REM, I speak of the period in which it's available throughout the stages of sleep to go directly in. Just like how people confuse sleep paralysis with REM atonia. Again, even a 3rd grader would get it.

Anyways, I had my little fun playing with you.

P.S. You might have been lding before I was born but I assure you that I've had many times over the amount you will get in a life time.

Originally Posted by malac

@spaceexplorer Ha, the guy goes straight to insulting my character again! That's it? Don't think just because you have nice grammar that it makes you intelligent. Why would I want to check my spelling and grammar on here? I don't even take you as a serious person, but laugh at how you continue to make yourself look like an idiot and now at your deluded idea of how "special" you think you are just because of your mature age of 50+. So prestigious...oh how I wish I was your age. If you really are twice my age, then that should make you 38. So why do you persist on sounding like a child that wants to get back at me, or whatever personal reason you have against me.

As for REM, I speak of the period in which it's available throughout the stages of sleep to go directly in. Just like how people confuse sleep paralysis with REM atonia. Again, even a 3rd grader would get it.

Anyways, I had my little fun playing you.

P.S. You might have been lding before I was born but I assure you that I've had many times over the amount you will get in a life time.

Like i said before. I'll let other people read what's been written and decide for themselves. I'm off to more interesting and valueable sections of the forum.

I tried this technique, but found that I was too tired to try grabbing anything

Originally Posted by malac

use your actual hands to grab and touch the nearest got damn thing closest to you. This image won't last long so you'll have to be fast about. I say actual hands because for when you use your actual hands, it'll for that moment be your dream hands.

I tried this technique too but unfortunately my boyfriend was lying next to me at the time and I accidently grabbed his dick. And it wasn't with my dream hands either

Originally Posted by malac

If that little statement a 3rd grader could understand riddled you, get out. As for my tech being serious, everyone does take it seriously except for the same old kids that never had it worked for them, so they have somehow assumed they have the right to judge it. It's like criticizing a movie they've never seen. I remember someone saying this is like a WILD. Hey bud, understand what a WILD actually is. Variations of WILDs mean different ways of entering a dream from waking consciousness. If you're comparing this to the traditional wild, as in just visualizing, then again, you've never done this before and just judged an unseen movie. If you hate other methods unlike the "first" WILD, what is your purpose of being at Dream views in Attaining Lucidity? Else, go contribute something and not leech.

Ok first, I never took it seriously even before I tried it. If you notice, by reading my previous posts in this thread. I was skeptical before I experimented. I didn't rule out the possibility, however, that this may be better than just simply imagining yourself 'jumping in to the dream'. Which is common practice around here.
I tried it multiple times.
As for not criticising a movie I haven't seen. I guess you're referring to the fact that we haven't completed it fully.
In the words of House, "I don't have to go to Detroit to know that it smells".

I tried this at least 4 times last night on different wake back to beds(some seconds within waking, some minuets, some with bathroom break...etc). The good thing about this you can try it multiple times if you fail.

Please note I have spent the last 6 months visualizing once relaxed at least an hour a day. So it was easy for me to fill the black space between my eye and eyelids with whatever random scenes/images came to mind, and then increase their detail/depth

I however, appear to be the only person who when reaching out to grab the dream world object, end up actually using my physical body! It was quite frustrating seeing the object in such detail, only to reach out with my real hands and wake me up completely, do the nose plug RC, and then try it again only to be woken up fully again.

I honestly believe I would have been better off not trying to grab(and therefore waking myself up) and just slipping into the dream when I saw such detail.

But like I said the good thing is you can try this many different times separately in different wake back to beds. Because of this I awoke on one of the final times and was about to start to try to grab technique when I noticed a strange wisp of ether near my ceiling fan above me. It also had a long string hanging from the light part of it so I tried to pull it to turn the light on because I was startled, but it wouldn't budge, and I failed to realize that this was indeed a false awakening(I had been solely focused on doing the grab technique and THEN reality checking).

So regardless of whether or not it worked for me, it only took one night to try it many times, and it resulted in a false awakening because I was in the habit of waking multiple times to try the technique. I'm just that closer to finding what works best for me, and won't have a FA without RC'ing next time.

If you have any clue malec let me know.

Lol @ the 10 second induction.

Induction usually takes a long time unless you do WBTB and get one of those nights when you wake up I guess I'd call it "heavy on the brain" lol. Part of your brain feels like really activated and when you go back to bed the dream starts almost right away. Those are the best but I noticed they are random alot.

Originally Posted by Lusense

Lol @ the 10 second induction.

Induction usually takes a long time unless you do WBTB and get one of those nights when you wake up I guess I'd call it "heavy on the brain" lol. Part of your brain feels like really activated and when you go back to bed the dream starts almost right away. Those are the best but I noticed they are random alot.

Lol @ you for thinking all inductions take so long. I suppose if someone never seen the moon, that person wouldn't know anything about it.

Originally Posted by Golden Son

I tried this at least 4 times last night on different wake back to beds(some seconds within waking, some minuets, some with bathroom break...etc). The good thing about this you can try it multiple times if you fail.

Please note I have spent the last 6 months visualizing once relaxed at least an hour a day. So it was easy for me to fill the black space between my eye and eyelids with whatever random scenes/images came to mind, and then increase their detail/depth

I however, appear to be the only person who when reaching out to grab the dream world object, end up actually using my physical body! It was quite frustrating seeing the object in such detail, only to reach out with my real hands and wake me up completely, do the nose plug RC, and then try it again only to be woken up fully again.

I honestly believe I would have been better off not trying to grab(and therefore waking myself up) and just slipping into the dream when I saw such detail.

But like I said the good thing is you can try this many different times separately in different wake back to beds. Because of this I awoke on one of the final times and was about to start to try to grab technique when I noticed a strange wisp of ether near my ceiling fan above me. It also had a long string hanging from the light part of it so I tried to pull it to turn the light on because I was startled, but it wouldn't budge, and I failed to realize that this was indeed a false awakening(I had been solely focused on doing the grab technique and THEN reality checking).

So regardless of whether or not it worked for me, it only took one night to try it many times, and it resulted in a false awakening because I was in the habit of waking multiple times to try the technique. I'm just that closer to finding what works best for me, and won't have a FA without RC'ing next time.

If you have any clue malec let me know.

I see you realize that I haven't claimed this to be the easiest method. I would say to try it again until you get it, then you will know what to do next time. It's not like fixing an engine, everyone's mind is different from mine The fact that you have good visualization means this should come easier to you than others.

For other people with questions, I'm sorry that Iif I don't answer them all. As for future projects, I'm working on my visualization WILD, which has given me SP multiple times.....arg. So anyways, I might not post anymore methods down unless it's something that could be somewhat mostly objective like FILD, as in physical movement. Something anyone can do. MFG's con is that people without visualization skills can't use it for squat.

Originally Posted by malac

Lol @ you for thinking all inductions take so long. I suppose if someone never seen the moon, that person wouldn't know anything about it.

I see you realize that I haven't claimed this to be the easiest method. I would say to try it again until you get it, then you will know what to do next time. It's not like fixing an engine, everyone's mind is different from mine The fact that you have good visualization means this should come easier to you than others.

Well honestly after grabbing the air 4+ times in a row and mentally/physically throwing myself from sleep to awake in seconds, I don't think I'll be trying this any more, just too tiresome. I'm going to attempt FILD tonight, it's a lot more subtle - physical sensation wise . And the visualization was not the problem, that was there 100%, its just that my physical body continued to override(even seconds from waking up an attempting, which only takes seconds to fall back asleep). I suppose when I get more comfortable with the differences between my dream body and physical body I will try this again.

For other people with questions, I'm sorry that Iif I don't answer them all. As for future projects, I'm working on my visualization WILD, which has given me SP multiple times.....arg. So anyways, I might not post anymore methods down unless it's something that could be somewhat mostly objective like FILD, as in physical movement. Something anyone can do. MFG's con is that people without visualization skills can't use it for squat.

Like I said visualization is my specialty, and I for one am completely fine with SP, I welcome it. I learned to work with it rather then against it early, and am very comfortable these days with the natural sensations we expierence but so often fight against(they're NATURAL guys!!). If you don't feel like releasing it to the public, please send me the V-WILD technique your working on through PM. Sleep paralysis is one of my gateways into Dream Time.

@Golden Son : When you grab it, is it to the point of high vividness that makes you think of how real it looks? Also about my "V-Wild". I'm not holding it or anything, I just feel like people should create their own version of WILD since its them operating their own mind. When I'm finish with mine, then sure I'll tell you if you want, not top secret or anything Beware of the SP that comes after it...

Originally Posted by malac

@Golden Son : When you grab it, is it to the point of high vividness that makes you think of how real it looks? Also about my "V-Wild". I'm not holding it or anything, I just feel like people should create their own version of WILD since its them operating their own mind. When I'm finish with mine, then sure I'll tell you if you want, not top secret or anything Beware of the SP that comes after it...

malac, you just said we should create our own Wild since we are operating our own minds,
then you say "Beware the SP that comes after it" of your V-Wild (as if what happens to you will happen exactly the same to all of us.)

It sounds contradictory, or did I miss something?

Well SP is fairly universal.