Thread: The stages of Sleep Paralysis

Originally Posted by moonshine

Are the stages I've noted common/correct?

Thanks,

Still, I don't think that there are discrete stages, or that they remain true. I think it varies by dreamer, and varies by situation. God knows what differences environmental variables alone cause. I don't always experience sleep paralysis precursors (SPP? lol), and the times I have it has varied. Once it was just a strange beeping that may have not even been a hallucination. Once it was intense vibrating throughout my body. Once it was a falling feeling, and that was just pre-sleep. They also didn't progress, it was just one sensation. I get it much more commonly upon waking.

I think the best thing is for people like Thor, who clearly understand a lot of the physiology and neuroscience behind sleep paralysis to provide information in an informative manner. That solves everyone's problem. Thor, you won't have to be aggravated by people not knowing what they are talking about. Everyone else will get a good education.

I think the biggest problem is these stupid tutorials talking about SP incessantly.

Here's an interesting question: How many of these experiences do you think people are actually going through because of the physiology of sleep, and how much of it is that they have actually entered a dream and are telling themselves to experience hallucinations or vibrations or whatever? Kind of like a lucid orgasm? You can point at your crotch and think orgasm and experience one, it may even be that people are already 'in' a dream and telling themselves to experience vibrations

Originally Posted by Shift

Still, I don't think that there are discrete stages, or that they remain true. I think it varies by dreamer, and varies by situation. God knows what differences environmental variables alone cause. I don't always experience sleep paralysis precursors (SPP? lol), and the times I have it has varied. Once it was just a strange beeping that may have not even been a hallucination. Once it was intense vibrating throughout my body. Once it was a falling feeling, and that was just pre-sleep. They also didn't progress, it was just one sensation. I get it much more commonly upon waking.

See Shift, where this SP(P) focus is leading? To nowhere! Here moonshine was expecting a nice sequence of big signposts leading him into the dream, and now you have to inform him that there may not be any at all. What's he gonna do now?

I think the best thing is for people like Thor, who clearly understand a lot of the physiology and neuroscience behind sleep paralysis to provide information in an informative manner. That solves everyone's problem. Thor, you won't have to be aggravated by people not knowing what they are talking about. Everyone else will get a good education.

Well, thanks for your confidence, Shift. I'll keep trying.

Here's an interesting question: How many of these experiences do you think people are actually going through because of the physiology of sleep, and how much of it is that they have actually entered a dream and are telling themselves to experience hallucinations or vibrations or whatever? Kind of like a lucid orgasm? You can point at your crotch and think orgasm and experience one, it may even be that people are already 'in' a dream and telling themselves to experience vibrations

Now that's a very interesting idea. Those experiences could simply be the result of suggestion in many cases.

Originally Posted by Thor

See Shift, where this SP(P) focus is leading? To nowhere! Here moonshine was expecting a nice sequence of big signposts leading him into the dream, and now you have to inform him that there may not be any at all. What's he gonna do now?



Well, thanks for your confidence, Shift. I'll keep trying.



Now that's a very interesting idea. Those experiences could simply be the result of suggestion in many cases.

Haha SPP. Now all I need to do is create an ILD and I'll go down in lucid dreaming history. Ah, the infamy of renaming things to confuse people...

That's what I'm thinking, I've had this sitting in the back of my mind for a while. That it's not even necessarily a 'true' experience, but just an induced experience just as one would summon a person or object into a dream and stimulate the mind into thinking it was perceived when the distal stimulus never existed. Makes you realize how much more irrelevant it is, as the whole point of the Twin Bodies Technique is that the environment never changes and you believe that you are still lying in bed, until the point where you "pull your dream body out of your physical body". So you may not even actually tell when it is that you have entered a dream, and since you are so focused you may just be lying there telling your dream body to vibrate away. All the more reason not to focus on reaching SP.

And also, I'm not kidding when I say you should write a topic about the stages of sleep and all the details, sort out the mess that this general knowledge has become. DV desperately needs people who are knowledgeable and educated about sleeping topics, and if you fit the criteria I would love to read anything you have to write. This biggest problem with these forums is that people aren't required to cite sources. Now I know why they're always bothering me to at school. DV needs a group of peer reviewers to OK posts!

Originally Posted by Shift

And also, I'm not kidding when I say you should write a topic about the stages of sleep and all the details, sort out the mess that this general knowledge has become. DV desperately needs people who are knowledgeable and educated about sleeping topics, and if you fit the criteria I would love to read anything you have to write. This biggest problem with these forums is that people aren't required to cite sources. Now I know why they're always bothering me to at school. DV needs a group of peer reviewers to OK posts!

Well, why not. I'll try and write a draft and I'll post it here in a few days, for peer review.

Originally Posted by Thor

Well, why not. I'll try and write a draft and I'll post it here in a few days, for peer review.

Yay!!

Thor, do you really not understand the OP's question? Or are you purposefully just trying to be difficult?

I think you guys are missing the point. When learning something, especially something specific like WILD, it helps to have a model you can relate to. Signposts, expectations, and a general idea of what to expect can help. It is a model and an aid. Its purpose is to help people learn to have the experience for themselves.

I like when people post their WILD experiences in a sequential way. It forms a narrative that I can relate to in my imagination. I think this thread would have been a whole lot more helpful it everyone posted their sleep paralysis experiences, instead of you making a big stink about the difference between sleep paralysis and REM atonia.

I think you are focusing too much on semantics, and not enough on experience.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Thor, do you really not understand the OP's question? Or are you purposefully just trying to be difficult?

I think I understand what he's asking about, but I also think it may be largely futile given the large individual variations in people's pre-WILD experiences.

I think you guys are missing the point. When learning something, especially something specific like WILD, it helps to have a model you can relate to. Signposts, expectations, and a general idea of what to expect can help. It is a model and an aid. Its purpose is to help people learn to have the experience for themselves.

I like when people post their WILD experiences in a sequential way. It forms a narrative that I can relate to in my imagination. I think this thread would have been a whole lot more helpful it everyone posted their sleep paralysis experiences, instead of you making a big stink about the difference between sleep paralysis and REM atonia.

I think you are focusing too much on semantics, and not enough on experience.

I think I've made my point on the value of clear semantics, but I'll make another one. I've seen posts from people who were scared to WILD because of the paralyzation they would allegedly experience. This is very bad when you consider that such an experience is in fact very unlikely, and there's nothing to be afraid of. Most people will not experience REM atonia nor sleep paralysis. They may infer that they should have it, but it wouldn't be an issue at all if people didn't keep harping on it.

With respect to what you may experience prior to a WILD, i.e., hypnagogic hallucinations, this has been written about ad nauseam in books, dream guides, and posts here on DV. There have been hundreds of threads where people have posted their experiences. Still that doesn't help. People come here every day and ask: "I felt blahblah, was I in sleep paralysis?" As if "sleep paralysis" were the main purpose of the whole exercise. I can understand people's desire for a model and an aid, but the subjective variations are enormous, so there is not much to go on.

Most everything in this thread goes against BillyBobs tech to WILD. You guys are over analyzing it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Thor, do you really not understand the OP's question? Or are you purposefully just trying to be difficult?

Thanks for the RB.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

When learning something, especially something specific like WILD, it helps to have a model you can relate to. Signposts, expectations, and a general idea of what to expect can help. It is a model and an aid. Its purpose is to help people learn to have the experience for themselves.

This is after all one of the primary purposes of this site.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

I think this thread would have been a whole lot more helpful it everyone posted their sleep paralysis experiences, instead of you making a big stink about the difference between sleep paralysis and REM atonia.

I think you are focusing too much on semantics, and not enough on experience.

Quite. It was pretty much agreed that we're refering to the stages leading up to Paralysis. Yet Thors continued banging on that drum.
Constructive comments would be welcomed.

man i really want to expereince ture sleep parlysis i usually fall alsleep before it kicks in...