Thread: Roll-over signal...

The urge to roll over is a signal from your body to your mind that is basically asking, "Are you still awake?" The body wants to make sure that the mind is asleep before it goes into sleep paralysis and prepares for dreaming. By rolling over, you're telling your body "No I'm not asleep yet."
If you ignore the signal long enough, your body will think your mind is asleep, you'll go into sleep paralysis, and then you can WILD into a lucid dream!

Thanks, yes my body is making it very painful for me but I'll ignore it as good as I can the next time. Maybe this roll-over signal is a sign that I awoke from REM-sleep, since that is the time when the body moves mostly during sleep?

Sounds like you've been watching the nonsense lucidology videos on Youtube.

Just to inform you, the body does not "test to see if the mind is asleep"
Where exactly in the body is this testing system?
Which part of the body, independent from the brain chooses to test if the brain is alseep? the lungs? the heart? the anus?

The mind and body are one system
If you have urges to move, or aches in your body when trying to force yourself to fall asleep whilst moving... that's probably something much simpler than the lucidology silly term "roll over signal" or "urge surge"... it's what us old fashioned types like to call "being a bit uncomfortable"

It's not some test from the body, that claim contradicts basic biology and psychology.

Anyhow I've made a post to warn people about lucidology: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=81402

I care too much about lucid dreaming to let clowns like Newport screw it up.

The body moves the least in REM sleep, Drogo, since that's when you're in sleep paralysis. For survival purposes, the brain paralyzes the body while dreaming so you don't act them out and wake yourself up constantly.

Spaceexplorer, it's partially the lucidology videos but also Jeff777's tutorial for allowing your body to fall asleep before you do. It's basically the same information.
I don't know the science behind it, but it makes sense to me and the technique works. Drogo wants lucid dreams, so I'm telling him what has worked for me based on his current situation.
If it's all a bunch of nonsense, that's fine. But at least it works.
I'll take a look at the link you posted anyways.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Sounds like you've been watching the nonsense lucidology videos on Youtube.

Just to inform you, the body does not "test to see if the mind is asleep"
Where exactly in the body is this testing system?
Which part of the body, independent from the brain chooses to test if the brain is alseep? the lungs? the heart? the anus?

The mind and body are one system
If you have urges to move, or aches in your body when trying to force yourself to fall asleep whilst moving... that's probably something much simpler than the lucidology silly term "roll over signal" or "urge surge"... it's what us old fashioned types like to call "being a bit uncomfortable"

It's not some test from the body, that claim contradicts basic biology and psychology.

Anyhow I've made a post to warn people about lucidology: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=81402

I care too much about lucid dreaming to let clowns like Newport screw it up.

I'm not sure this has anything to do with Nicholas Newport. Alot of people who have written tutorials on WILD suggest that you shouldn't move even if your body is aching or itching. Although I'd be glad to test a WILD or DEILD where movement is not "forbidden", I'm not really ready to discard the theory of ignoring the body signals

Sorry for the double post!

I've done both, Drogo, and I've had more success with ones where you don't move.
You should try out both to see which one works best for you.

Originally Posted by Drogo

I'm not sure this has anything to do with Nicholas Newport. Alot of people who have written tutorials on WILD suggest that you shouldn't move even if your body is aching or itching. Although I'd be glad to test a WILD or DEILD where movement is not "forbidden", I'm not really ready to discard the theory of ignoring the body signals

You've misunderstood me, and sorry if it seemed like i was being critical of you.

I completely agree that it it is a good idea not to move in these situations.
What i have a problem with is the idea that they are test signals from the body.
I think that part is incorrect.
I think staying still helps avoid needless movement that would increase your chances of staying awake. But i think that the sensations are simply discomfort, which is amplified by the fact that we are consciously aware of the process of falling asleep. It's like if you think about creepy crawly bugs crawling on your skin, that you are more likely to get itchy, because your attention is turned to it.

Same with yawning, if you think about it too much, you'll yawn... just that nice sensation of streching your mouth wide open, the air tumbling into your lungs, the refreshing strech of yawning... mmm, how nice it would be to just relax, let go and let all that air fill your lungs. Yawning yet?

Newports theory is completely flawed. And as someone trying to set themself up as an expert, you'd think they would take the time to get their facts right.
Yes he is right that not moving too much is a good idea... but that's all he's right about. The rest is nonsense made up theory... basically showing him up for not studying basic biology and psychology.

So yes i completely agree with you that not moving is a good practice (within reason, i think if you are starting to hurt, you'll probably be actually working against falling asleep)

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

You've misunderstood me, and sorry if it seemed like i was being critical of you.

I completely agree that it it is a good idea not to move in these situations.
What i have a problem with is the idea that they are test signals from the body.
I think that part is incorrect.
I think staying still helps avoid needless movement that would increase your chances of staying awake. But i think that the sensations are simply discomfort, which is amplified by the fact that we are consciously aware of the process of falling asleep. It's like if you think about creepy crawly bugs crawling on your skin, that you are more likely to get itchy, because your attention is turned to it.

Same with yawning, if you think about it too much, you'll yawn... just that nice sensation of streching your mouth wide open, the air tumbling into your lungs, the refreshing strech of yawning... mmm, how nice it would be to just relax, let go and let all that air fill your lungs. Yawning yet?

Newports theory is completely flawed. And as someone trying to set themself up as an expert, you'd think they would take the time to get their facts right.
Yes he is right that not moving too much is a good idea... but that's all he's right about. The rest is nonsense made up theory... basically showing him up for not studying basic biology and psychology.

So yes i completely agree with you that not moving is a good practice (within reason, i think if you are starting to hurt, you'll probably be actually working against falling asleep)

Yes, now I understand better what you mean. Some healthy movement may not hurt, but alot of people might think that once they have moved maybe just a little bit, they have ruined their attempt. So it becomes like a dilemma, if you stay still in an uncomfortable movement, you won't fall asleep, but if you move and think that the attempt was ruined because of that, you fail too. So the best thing one can do is having a comfortable body and a positive and focused mind, I guess.

Edit: Of course, some people can totally ignore the pain and ache and still fall asleep, but I think that is difficult and requires alot of training.

I can see this being a problem if you are attempting something like a DEILD.

For any normal WILD, go ahead and move as much as you want. I normally start my WILD on my back, get super relaxed, then move to my side. On a bad night, I might roll from side to side two or three times. Just keep at it and don't get frustrated. The trick is learning to pick up where you left off, and not let the movement interrupt you.

When you fall asleep normally, you probably move a little. Also, while asleep, you move quite a bit. If sleep paralysis does happen to kick in, you will not be able to move. Doesn't matter if you have the urge to or not. Your body is physically paralyzed.

It is pretty much a non-issue. If you ignore it, it will not effect your WILD at all. Conversely, focusing on it could possibly provide you with the "anchor" you need to keep your focus through the WILD. I always assumed this was what Jeff777 really experienced in his confusing tutorial.

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

The urge to roll over is a signal from your body to your mind that is basically asking, "Are you still awake?" The body wants to make sure that the mind is asleep before it goes into sleep paralysis and prepares for dreaming. By rolling over, you're telling your body "No I'm not asleep yet."
If you ignore the signal long enough, your body will think your mind is asleep, you'll go into sleep paralysis, and then you can WILD into a lucid dream!

Hum...Good information...I'm having trouble with this...

Today i'll try to not roll when i'll feel this urge [this is the only urge that can't make me not WILD]...I hope that i'll WILD...(Last month was easy to WILD...Now i'm getting bored of trying to WILD, and i'm having imsomnia 'cuz i try to WILD but i'm having now this urge to roll to the other side)

Originally Posted by Drogo

Yes, now I understand better what you mean. Some healthy movement may not hurt, but alot of people might think that once they have moved maybe just a little bit, they have ruined their attempt. So it becomes like a dilemma, if you stay still in an uncomfortable movement, you won't fall asleep, but if you move and think that the attempt was ruined because of that, you fail too. So the best thing one can do is having a comfortable body and a positive and focused mind, I guess.

Edit: Of course, some people can totally ignore the pain and ache and still fall asleep, but I think that is difficult and requires alot of training.

I don't believe in newport but...When i move when i'm trying to wild and have urge to move to feel confortable...Ok...I feel comfortable...But i'll be awake to the next 2 hours...

Because of this, this entire week i'm not sleeping well at all..I fall asleep only when it's the normal time that the most longer REM CYCLE will begin...[I'm dreaming too much, and vivid...But i'm not sleepping well and i'm failing at WILD beucase i'm moving a little bit]

Things that have worked for me is the Stop, Drop, Roll. Except, I can't do the roll -part, it ruins it for me. So basically it's just staying still... Also, I haven't felt very "painful" roll over -signal, I've just felt frustration, while waiting it to come.

There were some other thing that worked for me, but I wonder how much of this works, because I believe it works? And if so, then any method, which I believe in, should work. After all, that is what it is about in (lucid) dreaming, what ever one believes is going to happen will happen.

Maybe there is something why LD can be so difficult, what ever one thinks will happen, right? Try to control your consciouss mind. Try not to think anything for 30 sec. Most likely some random thoughts will pop into your mind, unless you are a meditation guru. If one can't control their consciouss mind, how they can control their subconsciouss mind, except with continuous long term practice.

I just recently came across Jeff777's tutorial. I had always had trouble with the intense "need" to move and it had always ruined my WILD attempts. I have to say that after reading Jeff777's tutorial and trying that technique -- just trying your best to ignore the sensation, I found that it does not last forever, or even that long! It was a big revelation for me. If you can "power" through it, it does actually go away and then I felt more relaxed than I had been before the sensation to move started.

However, I am such a novice, I don't know what good my opinion is! LOL.