The Old Lucid vs OOBE Debate

[EnT]

I realise this is probably an old and tired debate to some of you - but it's kind of new to me so I thought I'd float it and see what happens. Here's the rundown as I see it: An OOBE can purportedly take place after the notorious vibrations. You can find yourself in what is supposed to be some kind of dimension close to ours because everything is the same... except for some 'subjective' differences. None of the laws of physics apply and you can alter your surroundings more or less at will. You can meet various ppl/entities in your travels, some of whom can seem like they know more than you. You can have crystal clear clarity and things seem 'hyper-real'. Now correct me if I'm wrong but all of the above can happen in a lucid dream. At first I thought so many people claim to have had genuine OOBEs it must be true, but the more I thought about it the harder it was to swallow. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and the OOBE phenomenon seems startlingly lacking in this dept. Someone quoted Robert Bruce as saying the only way to know an OOBE is genuine is if there is no break in consciousness but even this can happen in a lucid dream. I also remember reading about some experiments conducted to prove OOBEs in which the projector had to project to another room and read a number written on paper or identify an object placed somewhere but he was unable to do so. He claimed the numbers were hard to read and the objects were hard to define - more classic symptoms of lucid dreaming! I'm not trying to be offend anyone but it seems an open/shut case to me (despite my inexperience which I willingly acknowledge). OOBEs are probably nothing more lucid dreams. They could take place in a different dimension but if this was true, surely someone would have brought something back that we can take to the bank, so to speak, by now. Like innocent until proven guilty, I think we should be skeptical of fantastic claims until it's more reasonable to believe OOBEs than doubt them. Just wondering what other people are thinking about the whole subject...

[melanieb]

**Thread moved to Beyond Dreaming for topical responses**

[Zoth]

We already got a thread on the subject in here tbh, you can find there several opinions on the matter

[frost458]

Well the reponse is simple, this is the only way to confirm that OBE are real : some experiments conducted to prove OOBEs in which the projector had to project to another room and read a number written on paper or identify an object placed somewhere So until someone is able to do it, we will never know. And even if someone claim he did it, how would you know if he is not lying?

[EnT]

Damn - thanks zoth00. Beaten to the punch by a week.