Thread: military/govt research

Sure. How do you know that what you know isn't exactly what they want you to know/think? I'm not saying that anyone should venture down paranoia lane. But nor should we BUY information at face value. The military and the Federal govt. are renowned for keeping info from the public.

Originally posted by evangel
Sure. How do you know that what you know isn't exactly what they want you to know/think? I'm not saying that anyone should venture down paranoia lane. But nor should we BUY information at face value. The military and the Federal govt. are renowned for keeping info from the public.

Exactly. It is rather nieve to think that our government would give us knowledge of any experiment the are conducting. It does not mean you think it is a conspiracy. It is called secrecacy.
Wouldn't it be so nice if another country wanted to gain some insight on some of our experiments and all they woud have to do is Google it.
I think the truth is that many don't believe that AP is possible.
If we were talking of some work done on a new laser beam there would probably be no rebuttle.

Originally posted by evangel
Has anyone heard of any substantial LD or psi-related research done by govt. or military that is recent (say since the early 70s or so)? I've been reading a little on remote viewing and found it interesting, especially in its relation to similar phenomena in lucid dreams.

But all the Programs got cancelled when they couldn't tell Bush where all the Weapons of Mass Destruction were. Then there was the problem of finding people like Osama Bin Ladin. Apparently it doesn't take much of an effort of Psychic Self Defense and Protection to evade the eyes of the Remote Viewers. Almost anybody who enjoyes his psychic privacy can evoke a Wall of Protection which will blind the psychid vision of those who attempt to pry and spy. so when the Remote Viewers wouldn't lie, about seeing Weapons where none existed, and couldn't spy, as everyone deserves privacy if they once invoke it, the Remote Viewer programs had their funding pulled.

The Russians had something themselves, but probably found the same thing. They also could not catch Osama Bin Ladin, when he was with the American CIA. Few people realize that Al Queda was founded by the CIA and still use CIA Manuals on how to establish a Secret Cell Organizations. It was a plan to destroy the Soviet Union, which largely succeeded, didn't it? and the stupid American's didn't realize they gave away a gun that could be just as easily aimed at themselves next. Unleash the Dogs of War, the Dogs that know no Master but Death.

[quote]

Exactly. It is rather nieve to think that our government would give us knowledge of any experiment the are conducting. It does not mean you think it is a conspiracy. It is called secrecacy.
Wouldn't it be so nice if another country wanted to gain some insight on some of our experiments and all they woud have to do is Google it.
I think the truth is that many don't believe that AP is possible.
If we were talking of some work done on a new laser beam there would probably be no rebuttle.

Along the same lines, it would be naive to think that just because something is possible - or, at least, much more possible* - beacuse of a bunch of conspiracy theories and (failed) experiments.

*Much more meaning yes, it could be slightly more possible but not really by much.

I heard that the Russians (at least in the past when they could afford it) were much less secretive in the sense that they considered paranormal research and studies to be substantial. As a result they gathered some substantial knowledge of phenomena previously thougt to be unknowable. I don't see why we spend so much time and energy trying to classify this information - or even more try to portray paranormal events as "fringe" or non-viable or a waste of tax money... I'm not saying we should go crazy and spend billions, but simply acknowledge that maybe some benefit could come from studying the so-called "x-files" instead of treating them like unsolvable mysteries of the paranoid schizophrenics.

Originally posted by evangel
I'm not saying we should go crazy and spend billions, but simply acknowledge that maybe some benefit could come from studying the so-called \"x-files\" instead of treating them like unsolvable mysteries of the paranoid schizophrenics.

I totally don't see why money should be spent on it. It's chasing a dream more than anything - while it would be really nice to spy on a country the other side of the world without having to leave the safety of your own, the results did prove inconclusive (for the sake of brevity, let's just say there is no conspiracy). No amount of money or reasoning is going to change that.

Although the benefits that you would obviously amass if such a thing was to actually work could be a factor in making the goverment chase it up again anyway. At the waste of tax payers money, if it all panned out to be a giant fraud. All the signs point to 'yes', so I don't think it would be worth it. Research money into something else instead. I don't know, cracking the problem of cancerous cells or something.

Originally posted by Kaniaz
I totally don't see why money should be spent on it. It's chasing a dream more than anything - while it would be really nice to spy on a country the other side of the world without having to leave the safety of your own, the results did prove inconclusive (for the sake of brevity, let's just say there is no conspiracy). No amount of money or reasoning is going to change that.

Why limit its use to only that...? Remote viewing or other psi-related work could be used in an endless array of ways rather than just military use.

At the waste of tax payers money, if it all panned out to be a giant fraud. All the signs point to 'yes', so I don't think it would be worth it. Research money into something else instead. I don't know, cracking the problem of cancerous cells or something.[/b]

Too bad they ALREADY waste millions on all kinds of things we could be spending towards cancer research, AIDS research, etc. Paranormal research could be done in relation to things like cancer research... instead we waste money on drug research, and studies instead of exploring ALL KINDS of possible alternative health and healing methods. It is a very limited and blind mentality of "going with what we know" instead of taking risks and exploring new areas of research. The almighty dollar speaks loudest, I suppoose. -That is exactly the same reason why we haven't for the most part integrated holistic and eastern methods into western medicine (because the govt presents it as "pursuing a dream") - all the while promoting, along with corporations, things that are more easily marketed and exploited like drugs... I guess we're more worried about economic success rather than health and other things beneficial to all.

Don't join them................Next thing you will be wearing a Conrete Over-Coat floating Face Down in the Hudson.

Any formadable government conducts research and experiments that would probalbly make people turn over in their grave.
Frankly I don't want to know all of what goes on behind closed doors.
For any project to be given a inconclusive result to me gives it even more merit of it exhisting.
What governments don't want you to know, you will not. To think otherwise is obsurd.

And leo Volent, I agree about the fact that we should have had proof of WMDs. And moreover the backing of the United Nations.
But have you ever given thought to the fact that we went in premptivley for reasons they will not diclose to the public? Why would a president, arrogant or not put his preputation on the line, as he surley new it would, unless there was information to wich it would make it worth the risk.

Yes..........But "WAR".........Any War.....= BIG BUCKS........Pushing 2000 US dead. What a price to pay. (Official Numbers). of course.

Don't you think that he is not aware of the casualties of war? And even if he was that nieve, he certainly has many advisors. People act like it was soley HIS decision.
He may have some other motive, quite possible.
It just seems rather presumtuous for any of us to think we no anything as fact.
Opinions are one thing.

"WORKING FOR THE YANKEE DOLLAR"....................The "Andrews Sisters".............

Originally posted by Howetzer

What governments don't want you to know, you will not. To think otherwise is obsurd.

Not always. There are ways of finding things out. And why is it absurd? Why should my (or anyone's) hard-earned money be extracted from each paycheck, then spent by those who abuse their authority and trust -on studies about alien entities, cattle mutilations, or poltergeist... (then lied about as if it were not happening) I'd like to know where most of our tax monies are spent (ALL would be unrealistic, I know - some info must be kept secret for the sake of "national security/safety,") - but I think it's more often the paranoia of the powers that be that hinders great social progress, and not the paranoia of the people or the individual "crazies." A little paranoia's healthy. Anyone who tells you otherwise is probably up to no good.

Originally posted by evangel
Not always. There are ways of finding things out. And why is it absurd? Why should my (or anyone's) hard-earned money be extracted from each paycheck, then spent by those who abuse their authority and trust -on studies about alien entities, cattle mutilations, *or poltergeist... (then lied about as if it were not happening) I'd like to know where most of our tax monies are spent (ALL would be unrealistic, I know - some info must be kept secret for the sake of \"national security/safety,\") *- but I think it's more often the paranoia of the powers that be that hinders great social progress, and not the paranoia of the people or the individual \"crazies.\" *A little paranoia's healthy. Anyone who tells you otherwise is probably up to no good.

Why is it obsurd?. Well if you feel that governments tell the general population all of what they experiment on,then more power to you. And if you can find out this information then you have more power than some other governments.
Seems to me you and I are agreeing on the same things.
And our hard earned money should not be spent on who abuse thier power. Does that mean it isn't?

Firstly, as I've been busy I've fell a bit behind on the thread of conversation here, it might seem like I'm going off-topic from the off-topic or something. Sorry.

Originally posted by evangel
It is a very limited and blind mentality of \"going with what we know\" instead of taking risks and exploring new areas of research. The almighty dollar speaks loudest, I suppoose. -That is exactly the same reason why we haven't for the most part integrated holistic and eastern methods into western medicine (because the govt presents it as \"pursuing a dream\") - all the while promoting, along with corporations, things that are more easily marketed and exploited like drugs... *I *guess we're more worried about economic success rather than health and other things beneficial to all.

Well, you see, the way things are, all remote viewing claims so far has turned out to be a heap of crap, hasn't it? There's one about ninjas using it to kill their assains, and others so equally stupid to that.

So it is quite simply pursuing a dream. There hasn't been a scrap of evidence that proves to me that remote viewing is real (out of the military researchers results). So, if I happened to have all this money at my disposal, I wouldn't be spending a dime on \"research\" for what people use to con others out of their money.

That is exactly the same reason why we haven't for the most part integrated holistic and eastern methods into western medicine (because the govt presents it as \"pursuing a dream\") [/b]

No, because innocent people can die from believing that Mr. Hoohah from the \"Ancient Tiebetan Hall of Sunshine Beauty\" and his fabulous herbal methods can actually be used in place/to partly replace medicine that has statistics showing that it works, such as:

Life expectancy has dramatically increased over the last few centuries of human history. These changes are largely the result of improvements in public health, medicine and nutrition. The greatest improvements have been made in the richest parts of the world, but the same effects are now spreading to other parts of the world as their economies and infrastructure improve.[/b]

(link to source of statistic)

Nope, Mr. Hoohah certainly didn't help there. In fact, because money, these improvements in medicine and nutrition, which cost money, have taken place. That's the reason half of us are probably still here right now. So, if we diverted more of this money from Mr. Hoohah's research into shaman summoning (or whatever 'holistic methods' are suppose to do) to more research in medicine, nutrition, blah blah blah, I think it would be fair to say we get to live even longer and experience more benefits.

Tangent again, anyway. You still haven't given any real proof that this stuff is actually worth researching anymore, other than the fact there is no proof (provided courtesy of the failed remote viewing exeriment). All you've said is "here's the benefits we'd get, now go do it!"

HOO-Hah. :happygolucky:

I am sure greatful that some of our predecessor from the past, inventors, scientist, astronomers, docters, etc have not thrown away novel ideas at the drop of a hat because there is no proof. Or because they sounded obsurd at the time.
Wouldn't you feel a little librerated if you did not have to attach proof to everything?

Did you know the government stated that the stealth bomber would be unable to fly with that air flow construction. Lochead & martin didn't believe it. And wouldn't you know we now have stealth bombers.
Aside from that, the general concencus is that anything you (meaning civilians) know about military activity is approximatly 8 -10 years behind where they really are in technology. That quoted from the History channel.
The USA spends more on military than ALL other countries combined. They have means to wich to explore something that you can't probably even brainstorm.
And again, To think you are going to find this information via the internet, library or were every you claim you can access this information is rather impressive.
I would like to know your source.

See that White Van outside your House.............They are Mapping Your Thoughts. Oh....C'mon......You must have heard about Micro-wave Weapons. (Marconi Scientists Bumped Off Big Time). But as long as You Conform to the White Middle Class Ideal as being of No threat You should be Ok. Just keep reading the NY Times. I Blame "Echelon".........You Power Hungry Yanks. And Stop recording my Cell phone Conversations. (What is it You Lot Say..........Liberty and Justice..............Me Thinks No). I believe We Ruled the World Once. Nations come and go. Just watch out for China.

My sources...
That's classified information.

C'mon......You must have heard about Micro-wave Weapons[/b]

Even the MIBs don't know...
8)