My theory on why we experience fear when we feel the vibrations.

[Daredevilpwn]

Before I write my theory there is one thing you must assume and that is we have lived multiple lifetimes. Alright so the fear we feel when we vibrate when we are inducing a LD or an OBE. I believe that when we are really laying on are death bed we feel these exact same vibrations. These vibrations occur when the consciousness of a person is shifting into a different state of awareness. Basically what I am saying is we are ALREADY vibrating already but we don't notice it. When we die what happens is that our vibrations are changing we obviously no longer have a body that is vibrating on the physical level. Our spirit bodies are much higher in vibration than the earth body and we feel this change as we are dying. So now why do we feel the fear when we are inducing a ld or OBE? It is simple really. If you have lived and died multiple times those memories of all those deaths are locked away in your subconscious mind but can still be accessible. Now then assuming what I said above is true lets say you are trying to lucid dream via WILD. I know vibrations are not necessary in order to do this but lets just assume a first time LD'er felt the vibes and started to become fearful. What I believe is happening is that these vibes the LD'er is feeling is triggering a subconscious memory of the many deaths that LD'er has experienced. The LD'er is subconsciously associating the vibes to dying. I believe this is why people become afraid when they feel these vibrations. Like my other more recent post I would like to say this is just a theory. I am not saying this is how it is. Feel free to post what you think.

[telethiese]

The reason why people experience fear when they feel vibrations coming from inside is because generally, people live in a state of numbed shock. Due to a bad case of mistaken identity, they think they're holed up in their brains and cut off from the rest of their body, causing dissociation from reality and dull awareness of life, so when they suddenly feel something new they think it's coming from outside of themselves and the conditioned fear of the Other kicks in, their adrenaline spikes and they then experience that fear in the form of ghosts, 'witches', succubi, etc. Maybe. Just my 2 cents.

[stprue]

Hello DEP, Vibrations occur from strobing of the heat chakra, which also occur in an altered state of consciousness in the initial stages of an OBE. This occurs (often) in the mind awake, body asleep state or induced by an individual that is intentionally bringing on the effect. ((the effect can be brought on easily by a person with experience in particular trainings)) I find your theory interesting, but would caution you from making any statement or theory for reasons I will explain further. I tend to think that the fear comes from your energy body separating from your physical body due to a heart chakra strobe, which is a highly energetic event. This is a traumatic event for the inexperienced (which I am and have personally experienced). The sensation has been described in many ways, for me it felt like a freight train racing by my bedroom window with a pounding on my chest. When you're in a deep sleep this would startle anyone except the inexperienced, trust me. Also, we can change our vibrational frequency at will. It takes work and time, but it can easily be done through specific meditations....many in fact. As you purify your energy body you increase your vibrational frequency. For me, I can now hear and feel some of my stronger energetic structures vibrating. Think of it as a sensitization of your energetic makeup.

[Daredevilpwn]

Hey STP, Your theory makes sense and is just as potentially right as mine. After writing my post I had also thought that it could be a more simpler reason such as the vibes being a completely new experience to someone trying to LD or AP. I have also felt the vibes and I have also chickened out due to fear of the unknown but then I got used to it and welcomed it whenever I remembered to stand still to perform a DEILD. I find it awesome you have developed so far and can feel your internal energy. I have a question for you. Assuming you believe in the afterlife, do you think having the skill to change your vibes will be a great skill in the afterlife?

[Chimpertainment]

Awesome thread!! I was just thinking about this very thing today. My personal experience with vibrations in meditation has bee somewhat similar to my experiences with vibration while under the influence of a strong psychedelic. My personal experience with fear while in sleep paralysis has been distinguishing between outer and inner stimuli. Sometimes, i might hear a voice and it freaks me out; not because of the noise but because it means someone might be near me of whom I was previously unaware. Just a couple days ago I went into SP for the first time in a long time and I started to hear the electric whirring in my head. Unfortunately, it startled me and I my body jerked out of SP. Perhaps its more of a reaction from our physical body. Think about it in terms of exercise. When the body goes beyond its physical limits, it starts to tell the brain to take it easy in a manner of speaking. We can choose to push ourselves beyond that point but the body will still give us the signals that it is not comfortable with what is happening. Once you reach a certain endurance level, those signals are easier to ignore and override. Just like with SP, after some time we get accustomed to the pattern and it reduces our inhibition.

[Lucky27]

The reason why people experience fear when they feel vibrations coming from inside is because generally, people live in a state of numbed shock. Due to a bad case of mistaken identity, they think they're holed up in their brains and cut off from the rest of their body, causing dissociation from reality and dull awareness of life, so when they suddenly feel something new they think it's coming from outside of themselves and the conditioned fear of the Other kicks in, their adrenaline spikes and they then experience that fear in the form of ghosts, 'witches', succubi, etc. Maybe. Just my 2 cents. I like this explanation. My vibrations are almost always accompanied with a sense of entrapment inside my mind/body. I'm overcome with fear, and I'll try to scream and do whatever it takes to "wake myself up". Also I'll feel some kind of outside force acting on my body that my mind interprets as ghost-like or demon-like. Once my wife was playing on her phone next to me while I was dozing off. During these vibrations I sensed my wife next to me, and was screaming for her to wake me up. When I snapped out of it, I asked my wife If she could hear me yelling. She said I was only softly mumbling in my sleep, and didn't see any reason to wake me.

[gab]

Dunno, but I love my vibrations. First time was really intense one, since then all I get is mild ones, but none of them made me scared. Maybe because they didn't come with any audio or other hallucinations. I'm thinking, that if you get scared, it's most likely because it's something totally new and so different from anything else we have ever experienced. But I like your hypothesis about being scared because we remember our previous death. But the thing is, I personally have never felt vibrations, only since I'm practicing awareness and lucid dreaming. So is it possible, that dying people who don't practice any of this are not aware of "final vibrations", just as they are not aware of them during normal sleep (but I'm sometimes aware of them)?

[Sageous]

Interesting conversation, and I love the metaphysics, but I think you guys might be making mountains out of molehills. Molehill: Your waking consciousness noticing the transition that your body, and everybody else's body, naturally goes through every night as it passes from wake to sleep. You'll notice lots of "noise," like hypnagogic imagery, odd physical sensations, "SP," and, yes, what feels like vibrations. Totally normal, totally natural in every way -- except that you're consciously witnessing them. Nature never meant for that to happen. Mountain: When witnessing these vibrations (or SP, which is also a very popular molehill), a creative mind, especially a mind that has heard many an exciting tale about the noise, will attach meaning to an otherwise meaningless event. The mere attachment of this meaning is enough to force focus and multiply the effect enough to cause distraction at the least, and real fear at the most. Imagination can be an amazing thing, especially when fueled by novel events. Shouldn't the goal in all this be LD'ing? Is attaching such elaborate mythology, and opening the door to distraction and fear in the process, really a good thing? Also, please note that I'm not refuting your very cool theories, or even questioning them. They each could be quite real. The trouble is, I think, that the vibrations that form the foundations of your theories are likely not the natural noise you witness when, say, doing a WILD. I know this isn't quite in line with the rest of this thread, but I had a feeling it needed to be said anyway.

[gab]

Sageous, I agree. Somehow it didn't come through in my post. The vibrations are natural and we have them every night, just not noticing them. You notice them when doing awareness and other LD related practices. But the theories sound interesting, I must say.

[Sageous]

^^ Understood, Gab... I was still typing when you posted, or otherwise would have noted. And yeah, I agree; the theories are excellent, and I offer no argument against them at all!

[Chimpertainment]

Nature never meant for that to happen. why not?

[Sageous]

why not? Because nature expects our waking awareness to be absent during the final transition to sleep. Though I personally -- and very much arguably -- feel that sentience is a condition that flies in the face of nature itself, I am sure that it is not meant to participate in the experience of sleep and dreams. ... Which BTW only makes LD'ing all the more intriguing!

[Chimpertainment]

^^^ seems fair...but why does the mind only go into SP when the body has been paralyzed? The mind is not inhibited from being aware, so why would that seem against nature? Many people in waking life go about being completely unaware, having children, building businesses, assembling armies, etc.. As a child, my subconscious would teach me the ways of dreams so that I could become more aware. It was my dream awareness that led me into deeper understanding about reality itself, waking or sleeping. And I dont think nature has expectations..its just going to be what it is..

[Sageous]

^^^ seems fair...but why does the mind only go into SP when the body has been paralyzed? The mind does not "go into" SP; the mind doesn't get paralyzed, even in normal sleep, and it is not entering a place or condition called "SP." SP is simply the witnessing of REM Atonia, usually upon waking, when your waking consciousness notices that your body hasn't finished its sleep cycle yet. During WILD, "SP" is generally your waking consciousness noticing, too closely, the transition to sleep, the emptiness of NREM, and generally imagined paralysis. In either case, your mind is fully turned on, and never paralyzed. Neither is SP a place toward which your mind might "go;" SP is nothing more than your mind noticing what it normally would not simply because it is more active, not less so. [Upon rereading I realize that I may have misunderstood your statement; let me know if that was the case...] The mind is not inhibited from being self-aware, so why would that seem against nature? Many people in waking life go about being completely unaware, having children, building businesses, assembling armies, etc.. Actually, I think the mind is regularly inhibited from being aware, if not directly by nature, then by the fact that there is no inherent natural function that promotes self-awareness. You sort of confirmed this yourself when you noted that so many people (dare I say almost all of them?) can go through their waking lives completely unaware ... Lack of self-awareness seems the norm in nature, and we all prove every day that we can eat, sleep, survive, and make more humans without a drop of it. Yet what in nature exists to promote self-awareness? Why do we have to do all these exercises to maintain attention? Why do we continually lose track of or selves, even when we're trying so hard? Why is LD'ing intrinsically difficult? Because there are simply no mechanisms in nature that assume, stimulate, or grow self-awareness. Sentience is too new, genetically speaking, for nature to have a real part in it. Sentience may have come about naturally, but its impact and potentials far outpace the natural order of things. I hope that made sense, because I think it is important. As a child, my subconscious would teach me the ways of dreams so that I could become more aware. It was my dream awareness that led me into deeper understanding about reality itself, waking or sleeping. Again, that was an accident of nature, and not, I think --- and of course arguably -- the direction of nature. The mechanism of dreaming was in place in us before sentience (just look at a sleeping dog for proof of that), and it makes sense that once sentient we used dreams to "communicate" with our unconscious -- or at least think we are (a facet of self-awareness, BTW). But I have to wonder if meaning did not exist in dreams until we chose to place it there. In other words was your unconscious really leading you to a deeper understanding of reality itself, or was your self-awareness using cues from your dreams to deepen your understanding of reality? Keeping in mind what you said above, almost everyone manages to go through life without paying any heed at all to their dreams, and certainly without being taught anything about reality itself; why is that? Also, keep in mind that I'm talking about self-awareness here -- sentience -- and not awareness; the difference being that self-awareness is your sense of self, literally: you know you are here, that the things you say and do effect events and people around you, and events and people around have an effect on you. Awareness, on the other hand, is simply the thoroughly natural sense of avoiding obstacles, noticing food, responding to visual or verbal cues as needed (i.e., the sense to step out of the way of an oncoming bus, or to smile back at a pretty girl). Everything alive enjoys innate awareness. Self-awareness is the accidental, and still cultivated, result of abstract thought, and not many creatures have that capability. And I don't think nature has expectations..its just going to be what it is.. Agreed. I didn't mean to anthropomorphize nature in my post, though I can see it appeared that way!

[Chimpertainment]

I think I can see what you are saying. What I mean about SP is this. The body is paralyzed for sleep by the brain but usually the mind falls asleep before that happens. Therefore, most people don't experience SP because they have no "reason" to remain self-aware. I think a lot of this is conditioning. I know my experience was the exception to the rule, but I also think I developed in that way for survival reasons. At night, it was like I was experiencing partial insanity so I forced myself to remain aware, thus I began to experience more sleep phenomena. Say someone is trained to be aware of every part of their mind from childhood. If that were the case, it seems my experience might be closer to that hypothetical norm. In our world however, these skills are viewed by the west as useless, and by the east as attainable only by the few. My view is that it seems to be a natural function of consciousness. Nature is always doing its thing, and with each successive evolutionary step, it seems consciousness expands. Ive always disliked the term sentience. It just seems like a way of making humans special. We assume other animals are not like us because we cannot communicate with them. Yet, animals have been proven to be psychic. It seems a natural function of consciousness, yet they seem to exhibit less "self-awareness". Chimps are self aware, all the apes and monkeys have cognitive function of a small child or baby. Then again, they say self awareness is when a baby can look in a mirror and know it is them. But a mirror isnt even an exact replica of ourselves! so weird...anyways, I think humans have a long way to go on this subject, I know I do.

[Sageous]

You're confusing me today, Chimpertainent; you imply that you disagree, but then everything you write falls right in line with what I said. I think I can see what you are saying. What I mean about SP is this. The body is paralyzed for sleep by the brain but usually the mind falls asleep before that happens. Therefore, most people don't experience SP because they have no "reason" to remain self-aware. Which is also what I meant; and which also makes the experience of SP an event not meant to be a "natural" one. I think a lot of this is conditioning. I know my experience was the exception to the rule, but I also think I developed in that way for survival reasons. At night, it was like I was experiencing partial insanity so I forced myself to remain aware, thus I began to experience more sleep phenomena. Say someone is trained to be aware of every part of their mind from childhood. If that were the case, it seems my experience might be closer to that hypothetical norm. In our world however, these skills are viewed by the west as useless, and by the east as attainable only by the few. My view is that it seems to be a natural function of consciousness. Nature is always doing its thing, and with each successive evolutionary step, it seems consciousness expands. Right again. But, as you so clearly note, consciousness is expanding in spite of nature, or indirectly thanks to it ... the evolution in consciousness will be sourced to our efforts, and not, I think, to DNA. That "natural" function of consciousness you speak of is a construct of our making, and not of nature's. In other words, the next step in human evolution -- one of mind, or consciousness -- will be brought about by our efforts rather than the usual selection of successful genetic mutation. Your experience, BTW, is rare ... the "norm," I think, and as you indicate, is the polar opposite. Ive always disliked the term sentience. It just seems like a way of making humans special. We assume other animals are not like us because we cannot communicate with them. Yet, animals have been proven to be psychic. It seems a natural function of consciousness, yet they seem to exhibit less "self-awareness". Chimps are self aware, all the apes and monkeys have cognitive function of a small child or baby. Then again, they say self awareness is when a baby can look in a mirror and know it is them. But a mirror isnt even an exact replica of ourselves! so weird...anyways, I think humans have a long way to go on this subject, I know I do. Who said only humans can be self aware? I didn't. BTW, that mirror test borders on the absurd: I never saw how recognizing your image in a mirror is the same as knowing that you are part of the world, and it is part of you.... way too simplistic. What am I missing, Chimpertainment? Your tone is in complete disagreement with me, yet everything you write matches what I just said. Are you just messing with me?

[Chimpertainment]

That "natural" function of consciousness you speak of is a construct of our making, and not of nature's. In other words, the next step in human evolution -- one of mind, or consciousness -- will be brought about by our efforts rather than the usual selection of successful genetic mutation. We both agree about the nature of consciousness, but perhaps we have some disagreements about its function. Here is the problem I see: We as humans have existed for a long time. This consciousness we seek has been here all along. So it is not something I see being created, but something discovered. What after all is doing this "natural selection"? It seems to me the traditional view of evolution is just a form of reverse interpretation of history. I would see this in theological studies a lot. People will import their cultural views onto historical evidence. There is no way of getting around it unless you consciously think outside culture. We as a culture are very proud of our conscious mind, and ego. Freud is placed on a pedestal while Jung is ignored. True self-awareness comes from being aware of the sub-conscious mind. It is this same egocentric perception that distorts peoples view of natural evolution. Sentience is too new, genetically speaking, for nature to have a real part in it. Sentience may have come about naturally, but its impact and potentials far outpace the natural order of things. I hope that made sense, because I think it is important. Here is my basic premiss. Consciousness is an inherent quality of nature. Before there were animals eating each other, there were stars being born and destroyed. All this nature is about more than survival. It all coalesces into shapes, and meaning yet at its root its still just energy. Everything at its root has this quality of consciousness. That is to say, it begins inert, and becomes more complex. That seems integral to any kind of development, physical or ethereal. In my mind, sentience is the ability to become aware within that sphere or proverbial ocean of consciousness. To say that we are expanding and elevating consciousness against its very nature seems overly pretentious. Like the wise man said, there is nothing new under the sun.

[Sageous]

Ah! The veil lifts! It turns out we were talking about two different things, Chimpertainment ... and yet the same thing. go figure. Anyhow: We both agree about the nature of consciousness, but perhaps we have some disagreements about its function. Here is the problem I see: We as humans have existed for a long time. This consciousness we seek has been here all along. So it is not something I see being created, but something discovered. What after all is doing this "natural selection"? It seems to me the traditional view of evolution is just a form of reverse interpretation of history. I would see this in theological studies a lot. People will import their cultural views onto historical evidence. There is no way of getting around it unless you consciously think outside culture. Though consciousness has been around a very long time (more in a minute), humans as self-aware purveyors of consciousness have not. How long have homo sapiens existed anyway? Maybe a million years or so, three million at the most, with "modern" man around for less than 20,000 of those years? I could be way off, but considering the age of the universe, and even earth itself, we just got here. By comparison, intelligent races of dinosaurs (raptors are my personal favorite for this) could have thrived for millions of years before they met their end -- they would have considered 20k years an eye-blink, I think! For that matter, consider other potentially sentient creatures, like whales, whose ancestors were swimming -- and possibly sentiently thinking -- tens of millions of years ago. And don't even get me started on how long ant colonies have existed (another of my favorites for advanced sentience -- forgive me). Bottom line: we as humans have not existed for a very long time. Indeed, we just got here, and we just became self-aware yesterday, historically speaking. We are very new at experiencing and understanding this eternal condition you call consciousness (more in a minute), much less manipulating it, truly tapping it, and using it to improve or transcend the nature of our existence. We are still toddlers, searching for our spiritual legs at this point, barely a few generations removed from the last major physical evolutionary jump that "selected" our brains in the first place. In other words, we are very, very new to this game of self-awareness, I think, and many "baby-steps" away from actually understanding consciousness, self-awareness, and our place in the universe. For what it's worth, I consider LD'ing one of those baby steps... We as a culture are very proud of our conscious mind, and ego. Freud is placed on a pedestal while Jung is ignored. True self-awareness comes from being aware of the sub-conscious mind. It is this same egocentric perception that distorts peoples view of natural evolution. That sort of paraphrases the problem of human arrogance right there, given what I said above. Also, I never ignored Jung, and your mention of him in a sentence shows that others are still not ignoring his work, even after all these years. And for what it's worth, for me "True self-awareness comes from being aware of the sub-conscious mind," is precisely the opposite of how I (and I assume one or two others) term self-awareness. Now: Here is my basic premiss. Consciousness is an inherent quality of nature. Before there were animals eating each other, there were stars being born and destroyed. All this nature is about more than survival. It all coalesces into shapes, and meaning yet at its root its still just energy. Everything at its root has this quality of consciousness. That is to say, it begins inert, and becomes more complex. That seems integral to any kind of development, physical or ethereal. In my mind, sentience is the ability to become aware within that sphere or proverbial ocean of consciousness. To say that we are expanding and elevating consciousness against its very nature seems overly pretentious. Like the wise man said, there is nothing new under the sun. Agreed. And here is where I discovered my confusion: I wasn't talking about consciousness! I was talking about self-awareness, which is the pinnacle of sentience, which in turn is both the result of and fueled by consciousness, which, in turn, has indeed been around for a very very long time, encompasses, well, everything, and very likely finds manifestation in ways that stagger even the wildest human imagination. Everything alive (and possibly many things we don't currently consider alive), possesses some form of consciousness; it truly permeates everything. Indeed, I have a feeling -- call it a hope -- that should the uber-physicists create that Higgs particle and "discover" a Higgs field, they may wind up discovering consciousness itself. Something to think about. But that's consciousness, and, though it is the source of human self-awareness, it is not the same thing as human self-awareness. And finally, yes: consciousness is certainly an entropic driver of evolution, and is very much the "miracle" behind human dominance on earth. But it still is just the fuel, or the ocean, that drives evolution, and drove us to be able to think, to wonder, to imagine, and to defy the "system" installed by evolution (also fueled by consciousness). Sentience may be exactly what you say, an "ability to become aware within that sphere or proverbial ocean of consciousness." But self-awareness is the ability to step outside that sphere, and that may break some rules. Also, I never said I wanted to expand or elevate consciousness (I deeply dislike those terms, BTW); I said that the process of using self-awareness to do LD's flies in the face of the natural rules that nature -- perhaps through consciousness -- put in place to see that we go to sleep each night with as little trouble as possible --no expansion implied or intended. And that last sentence might have actually brought us back on topic, so I'll stop here.

[Daredevilpwn]

I had no idea this thread was still kicking until I just randomly decided to look. What both Sageous and Chimpertainment. Your conversation made me think of something. I also thought that consciousness was within everything. This is sorta off topic but this gave me an idea for another thread.

[Sageous]

^^ Well, if you start that new thread, be sure to tell us about it here so we know to look! Okay, tell me, because I'm totally inept at searching...

[Daredevilpwn]

Lol. Its in this category, its called "are we just aspects of each other" you can find what new threads people posted by just going to their profile and clicking "find all started threads"

[Sageous]

Oh, and oops! I'll check out your thread tomorrow!

[Mzzkc]

What is an "SP" thread doing in beyond dreaming? You know what...no. I'm just going to leave this here and let whoever reads it decide what to think.

[Chimpertainment]

World of the Little People - Map Interactive - National Geographic Magazine Sageous, I decided to sleep on this thread for a few days just for some reflection time. And here is what I have come back with... Though consciousness has been around a very long time (more in a minute), humans as self-aware purveyors of consciousness have not. How long have homo sapiens existed anyway? Maybe a million years or so, three million at the most, with "modern" man around for less than 20,000 of those years? I could be way off, but considering the age of the universe, and even earth itself, we just got here. By comparison, intelligent races of dinosaurs (raptors are my personal favorite for this) could have thrived for millions of years before they met their end -- they would have considered 20k years an eye-blink, I think! For that matter, consider other potentially sentient creatures, like whales, whose ancestors were swimming -- and possibly sentiently thinking -- tens of millions of years ago. And don't even get me started on how long ant colonies have existed (another of my favorites for advanced sentience -- forgive me). According To This Homo Sapiens have existed as is, for approximately 195,000 years. 10,000 years encompasses our entire "history" although I suspect there are other histories which we have yet to discover. So, I do agree that yes, evolution has been a very long process, and we have only been here as were are a very short time. Yet, we have beings just like us for 20 times the amount of time that we are aware. Historians attribute this self awareness to writing many times. Paper was a basic invention, yet it took us 190,000 years to figure it out even though we have the same brain? The Earth has a way of renewing itself, and many civilizations have been lost to time. I think all of this evolution would happen the same way anywhere it took hold. And I dont mean humans would always be the result. But every species utilizes the same attributes of consciousness that lead to sentience. So I am saying it was inevitable that we were going to become self-aware. The sentience is like a mirror of consciousness. Also, modern man puts a lot of emphasis on sentience. When you look at "ancient" civilizations, their conscious mind is heavily externalized. In our modern societies, all that consciousness has been repressed, and systematically bound like a mummy. The ancient man still expresses sentience in art, tools, language, the usual, but they had a very equalized relationship with nature. I think technology is a big part of this conversation as well. Now that we have developed technology that reaches back inside the mind, we are slowly realizing the truth. Technology is just a mirror. Ya know, it seems like im saying sentience is a matter of externalizing consciousness. Its an interesting idea. That would suggest everything expresses consciousness, but at different levels. Perhaps I just enjoy deconstructing things too much, lol... I said that the process of using self-awareness to do LD's flies in the face of the natural rules that nature -- perhaps through consciousness -- put in place to see that we go to sleep each night with as little trouble as possible --no expansion implied or intended. And that last sentence might have actually brought us back on topic, so I'll stop here. Maybe our rules need some revision then... What is an "SP" thread doing in beyond dreaming? I think its more of a "how do these vibrations make me feel" kind of thread...Also, I have experienced SP, and HH before the deep sleep cycle. I dont think rem is necessary to SP. I guess that makes me an abnormality.

[Mzzkc]

I think its more of a "how do these vibrations make me feel" kind of thread...Also, I have experienced SP, and HH before the deep sleep cycle. I dont think rem is necessary to SP. I guess that makes me an abnormality. *points to rest of thread*