Thread: Questions for the Astral Traveler

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

For me that would demonstrate knowledge at a distance, but would not tell us anything about the existence of an astral realm. I'm already completely convinced about knowledge at a distance, but have no knowledge of anything astral.

By way of analogy, in former times, non-visible light was thought by many to be 'astral'. Demonstrating the existence of non-visible light did not demonstrate anything about other realms.

Hypothetical situation
So, tonight I go into the Astral Plane for real.
What piece of information could I bring back that would prove to you the Astral Plane exists.

Originally Posted by TiredPhil

Hypothetical situation
So, tonight I go into the Astral Plane for real.
What piece of information could I bring back that would prove to you the Astral Plane exists.

Some kind of result that aids understanding of what the astral plane actually is. I have no idea what that might be. Remote viewing or accurate premonition doesn't do that, unless the result has some peculiar characteristic that sheds new light on how it works. Ask for help I guess.

About 6 months ago it was suggested to me in a dream that I should think about why my impression from the narrator isn't time reversed, and that this would aid my understanding of 'astral'. Not knowing what else to do about that, I thought about why an image is reversed in a mirror, since the astral plane is said to be a mirror of the physical plane and also of the 'thought' plane. The result of my thinking about that is I now understand that objects aren't actually reversed by a mirror. (The print on a book, for example, is reversed because you turn the book around to face the mirror. Its reversed because you turned it around, not by the mirror. If the words are printed on a transparent piece of plastic and you hold that up, then they look exactly the same in the mirror as they do to you.) So now I'm marginally less stupid about mirrors, but as far as I know I don't understand the 'astral plane' any better.

Originally Posted by TiredPhil

Hypothetical situation
So, tonight I go into the Astral Plane for real.
What piece of information could I bring back that would prove to you the Astral Plane exists.

Sorry, I took that as two different statements, with hypothetical situation referring to earlier statements and the 'So' being the start of a new thought. Now that I understand that you don't claim to astral travel, what I said totally doesn't apply to you, so I apologize.

I don't see how I'm fixed in my beliefs about the astral plane, or what we would be changing my mind about. It may be unreal as conceived of by believers, or remarkably like what they believe, I can't tell based on my experience. And I really did answer the question. I thought you were saying that you would travel to the astral plane, so I really was suggesting that you 'ask for help' on what kind of information to try to get. That's what I do in other similar situations. Its hard for me to know what kind of question to ask about something that I know so little about.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

Sorry, I took that as two different statements, with hypothetical situation referring to earlier statements and the 'So' being the start of a new thought. Now that I understand that you don't claim to astral travel, what I said totally doesn't apply to you, so I apologize.

I don't see how I'm fixed in my beliefs about the astral plane, or what we would be changing my mind about. It may be unreal as conceived of by believers, or remarkably like what they believe, I can't tell based on my experience. And I really did answer the question. I thought you were saying that you would travel to the astral plane, so I really was suggesting that you 'ask for help' on what kind of information to try to get. That's what I do in other similar situations. Its hard for me to know what kind of question to ask about something that I know so little about.

My grammar can be a little messed up, even at the best of times, so no need to apologise.

Now back to my question, but put in another format.

If I enter a dream state tonight, then come to visit you. I show you a random location on the planet. I give you information you could never guess.
Then the next day I send you this information over the internet.
What does this prove ?

It does not prove the Astral Plane exists
It does not prove I am psychic.
It does not prove you are telepathic

It only proves information can be passed over long distances by the human mind.
If a person wants to put a label on the event, that is their choice.
Calling the visit 'Astral' would be the choice of a person believing in the astral plane.
In fact, a dozen people all from different backgrounds would probably come up with a dozen different names.
When this thread was started, I was not in agreement with many members opinions, but now I have done a 180 degree turn.
Until we can put an agreed label on what the astral plane is, or is not, everyones definition is right.
This has been a great topic to participate in, and I think I am a little wiser for it.
Thanks again,
Phil