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    Thread: Are Dreams More Real than Real Life?

    1. #1
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      Are Dreams More Real than Real Life?

      Are dreams more real than real life? This might sound like a ridiculous question, but if you think about it, the front of your brain helps with planning and action, so in a way, it creates structure and makes sense of what you perceive. If this is a true description of our perceptions, then it makes sense to suggest that our waking brain gives us a less accurate representation of reality. You might say, but I'm sleeping and my eyes are closed, which is true, but the parts of your brain that process inputs are just as active while you are sleep as they are while you are awake.


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      My dreams are everything but real. Literally my dream 'graphics' are on low, everything is in low quality. Sounds are weird and smell+taste+tact are very basic.
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      You make a good point, Braintrust.

      Dream imagery can indeed be more real-seeming: contrasts are sharper, colors are brighter, images are perfectly crisp, etc.

      This is because your engines of perception are basically creating the same imagery that they do during waking-life (though with much less organization, I suppose), but they are doing so without the limiting filters of your sensory organs. In other words, say, a tree appears to you during a dream in exactly the way your imagination expects it to appear, while during waking life an actual tree is "blurred" by atmospherics, the quality of your eyes, possible diminishing factors in your optic nerves, etc. So perception in dreams can indeed seem "realer than real," because reailty can be a very messy place, while dream imagery can be "perfectly" clean.

      I think LaBerge found a neat phrase about this, but I can't remember it right now...something about dreaming being perception without the constraints of external input, while (waking-life) perception is dreaming constrained by sensory input. Or something.
      Last edited by Sageous; 06-27-2020 at 12:19 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by adrez View Post
      My dreams are everything but real. Literally my dream 'graphics' are on low, everything is in low quality. Sounds are weird and smell+taste+tact are very basic.
      Hey.. do you take a vitamin? Could be that you have a deficiency.. heard that taking B vitamins can make dreams more vivid.
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      i have a balanced diet focused on white fish and legumes, so i should be getting enough vitamins (i guess). But this has happened my whole life, perhaps the problem is that i don't concentrate enough, or i don't focus on the dream, i don't have many LD, so i don't have much experience.

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      Quote Originally Posted by adrez View Post
      i have a balanced diet focused on white fish and legumes, so i should be getting enough vitamins (i guess). But this has happened my whole life, perhaps the problem is that i don't concentrate enough, or i don't focus on the dream, i don't have many LD, so i don't have much experience.
      You know, sometimes it's not our diet that's the problem. I have a vitamin D deficiency regardless of getting lots of sunshine (I mean, I have fair skin and live in South Florida, and as the people say here, we get our vitamin D in the mailbox). It's a processing problem. You might want to take a multivitamin if you don't already just to be safe. What you also say about focus on the dream (or lack there of) is also very true. Do you use a journal?

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      Quote Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream View Post
      You know, sometimes it's not our diet that's the problem. I have a vitamin D deficiency regardless of getting lots of sunshine (I mean, I have fair skin and live in South Florida, and as the people say here, we get our vitamin D in the mailbox). It's a processing problem. You might want to take a multivitamin if you don't already just to be safe. What you also say about focus on the dream (or lack there of) is also very true. Do you use a journal?
      yes, i have a dream journal, but i usually write like once a week. I'm so sleepy in the morning and sometimes i don't remember them. But even when i was very active (writing every single day) i had this problem. I can't take vitamins because my family is VERY pro-organic food, and vitamins are demonic. I could hide it like drugs tho

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      Quote Originally Posted by adrez View Post
      yes, i have a dream journal, but i usually write like once a week. I'm so sleepy in the morning and sometimes i don't remember them. But even when i was very active (writing every single day) i had this problem. I can't take vitamins because my family is VERY pro-organic food, and vitamins are demonic. I could hide it like drugs tho
      That's kinda weird, but okay. Just make sure you're eating foods high in B vitamins; especially B6. Meat and fish are especially high.

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      I know that there are plenty of members here that don't write in a DJ. They do it as you do, write in it once in a while and there is nothing wrong with that. For me personally, I would try to write in it as much as I can because the more I do it, the more chances are, they will be clear the next time around. I also, try to write down what things feel like in the dream.
      adez? Do you think you usually feel like when you enter your dreams, the way you are seeing your dreams could be because you expect it to feel low quality? Do you ever find any of your other senses are stronger than your vision? Like hearing, the textile?
      Sorry, I don't know what your body needs. For me, (in my experience) I'm the polar opposite AS you, I see things clearly, high Def. Occasionally, I would have some tunnel vision dreams or dreams where I'm blind but, I just use my other senses to get by in my Lucids and non-lucid dreams. But, that could be that all about the way I feel too. Perhaps, you just need to develop your senses more? I don't take supplements.

      Sorry, BrainTrust for going a little off-topic here.
      Last edited by Lang; 06-28-2020 at 06:28 PM.
      it's important to stay aware of your surroundings in both Dreaming and waking life, or you will miss the strange but, amazing things that happen around you. Like this:


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      I think a clarification on what exactly "more real than real life" means is important for discussion. I'm a bit undecided on where I am with respect to the question you present here OP. If we are to take on waking life as the basis of what makes something be perceived as real, and I mean real as in discussing how detailed something looks, sounds, and feels, then I'm afraid my answer to your question would be a resounding no.

      On one hand I tend to view waking life as a singular perception of every day experience that changes (either due to disease or old age). With that said, although our level of awareness can increase to unmeasured proportions (as evidenced through a lucid dream), to my eyes only one of those experiences can match waking life, while the rest falls on a "not being real" classification. Even those experiences that go beyond it, while impressive, are entirely inaccurate. Either things look like waking reality or they don't. So, if I were to answer the question based on this idea, then no, I do not think dreams are in any way more real than real life because there cannot be anything that is, perceptually, beyond waking reality AND at the same time still holding the title of being real.

      That is not to say however, that we cannot live a better representation of waking reality. I think this is an important distinction, because dreams can and oftentimes will be (especially lucid dreams) more impressive or immersive than its waking life counterpart. Whether in terms of the visual or auditory information displayed (and the same is true for the rest of our senses), I like that my dreams look nothing close to what I could be living while being awake. I think that's one of the perks of wanting to become a lucid dreamer. Because, the thing is, waking life is pretty ordinary most of the time.

      Dreams appearing better than real life is also not an exclusive thing. You still can, while awake, perceive a vast array of media that portrays a better representation of reality than real life itself. Just take a look at how movies look like nowadays or even video games or the pictures you take with a camera. The advances in technology have skyrocketed during the last two decades that we can now experience forms of entertainment that surpass in many ways our perception of reality. A careful rendering of a scene with careful examination of the most tiniest of details using a computer can result in an image that can deliver a lot more oomph than almost anything else you might've probably experienced without it. And yet, I wouldn't call any of these experiences being more real or real. Better, absolutely but, real, that's a no from me. Though, given the choice, I'll take better every single time.

      But maybe I'm wrong about all this and dreams are not necessarily only better representations of wakefulness, but, as the video puts it, also more accurate representations of it. In which case, I think that, maybe our need to compare sensory representation between the dream world and the waking world should begin by using the dream itself as the base for the discussion and not the other way around. In this sense you could say that waking life looks, sounds, and feels, a lot "less real" than however high it is the experience can get through a dream.
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    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Silence11 View Post
      On one hand I tend to view waking life as a singular perception of every day experience that changes (either due to disease or old age). With that said, although our level of awareness can increase to unmeasured proportions (as evidenced through a lucid dream), to my eyes only one of those experiences can match waking life, while the rest falls on a "not being real" classification. Even those experiences that go beyond it, while impressive, are entirely inaccurate. Either things look like waking reality or they don't. So, if I were to answer the question based on this idea, then no, I do not think dreams are in any way more real than real life because there cannot be anything that is, perceptually, beyond waking reality AND at the same time still holding the title of being real.
      You have to admit, though, that it is amazing how in a lucid dream you can taste, touch, smell, etc. and it is just like waking reality. And yet, your nose isn't actually smelling anything at the time. How does that work? Why can you lick a wall in a dream, and have it taste like damp stone? I mean, that's just amazing to me. Which is why I spend a good amount time in my LDs just touching things, and exploring the sensory experiences around me.

      Quote Originally Posted by Silence11 View Post
      Either things look like waking reality or they don't.
      Also.. be careful with this premise. You want to develop that critical reflective attitude to encourage long-term lucidity. You want to look for the strange in waking life, question everything, and notice the synchronicities.

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream View Post
      You have to admit, though, that it is amazing how in a lucid dream you can taste, touch, smell, etc. and it is just like waking reality.
      It really is amazing how accurate the representation can get, but also how much more different and unreal as well. That's the more mind blowing part of it all in my opinion. I remember my very first lucid dream, where I stood in awe for a few minutes inside my own kitchen and I couldn't believe the amount of clarity and vividness of such a scene. I had probably walked more than a million times around that kitchen, and I've never seen the vibrancy of colors as those displayed that night. Truly breathtaking.

      And yet, your nose isn't actually smelling anything at the time. How does that work? Why can you lick a wall in a dream, and have it taste like damp stone? I mean, that's just amazing to me. Which is why I spend a good amount time in my LDs just touching things, and exploring the sensory experiences around me.
      We must remember that our eyes, our nose, our ears, our tongue, our skin, they do not work in isolation. It is all a thorough system comprising sensory organs, a network of nerves and the central nervous system that which gives us our perception of the world. And on top of it all, it is the brain that dictates the experience. What's best is, the brain does not exclusively require a physical input for it to sense and properly architect our perception of reality, assuming no component in the system is failing.

      Consider how you can see a perfectly good apple only through imagination. There is no apple outside in front of you, and even so, your mind can perfectly reproduce such an experience. Consider how fear can make your hairs stand straight even if you know for sure there isn't any form of physical danger threatening you right now. Drugs and disease can make anyone hallucinate of any type you can think of, whether visual, auditory, olfactory, taste, touch, etc. Our brain is amazing.

      And by that same token, it allows us to live out our wildest dreams with unprecedented detail. That's what excites me most. How much it doesn't get reality, but rather boost it X100.

      But giving the topic further thought, what I really want to see is: Can a lucid dream construct an accurate representation of an experience we haven't lived through before?

      If I've never gone skydiving before in my life, and I were to do so in a lucid dream, if I then later do a jump while awake, will it be the same?

      I've never tasted ramen before in my life, if I do and then later compare its taste to its waking life counterpart, will both taste the same?

      What if I grab a couple of weights in my dream and compare the feeling (at that exact weight) at the gym?

      What about the other-worldly or more fantasy-like aspects of dreams, like going through space, flying, walking on the moon, etc.?

      Here's a thought: Let's say we come back to our example concerning that bowl of ramen. If we compare that initial taste and we come out with the same result, what does that say about our dreams and the way our brain architects the dream world?

      If later on after the fact, inside another dream I set out to serve me another bowl, and the taste comes out differently this time, better even, what does that say about the change in perception for this dish? Is the increase in taste a more accurate representation? Or is it inaccurate/not real?

      Also, I want to point out that me saying things not being perceived as "real" does not mean to say they aren't authentic or that they do not exist or that they hold no impact, quite the contrary. I believe whatever it is we can live through as lucid dreamers might hold an even greater value and power precisely because of the reason of it being different/better/unreal.

    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Silence11 View Post
      If I've never gone skydiving before in my life, and I were to do so in a lucid dream, if I then later do a jump while awake, will it be the same?
      I did this once; go skydiving in a lucid dream. It was nothing short of AMAZING. Highly recommend that! Now.. all I have to do is muster the courage to try it in real life (ha, not happening )

      I'm not so sure it is our brain that deserves all the credit. I'm thinking there's something more to this than mere physicality. But.. I'm a spiritual person

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