• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




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    1. #51
      SKA
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      Well then that's why you tend to disagree with me: you completely misunderstood me.
      Your physiological explanation of brain chemistry and processes are very correct. I'm not arguing them. I'm just saying that the perceptions these brainprocesses cause are therefor not any less real.

      The scientific explanations you give, you give them as a means of saying: " See? You're wrong about the truth, because THIS and THIS is going on instead" I don't say that these brainprocesses AREN'T going on, I'm just saying the resulting experiences from that are experiences: And in a very simple sense all experiences are real simply because you EXPERIENCE them. Just like the TV soap opera you mentioned: In a way it's real because you percieve it and it can influence you. It's surely not real in the sense we're used to know "real", but in a way it still is very real. Catch my drift?

      Let me prove you wrong about your criteria for what is real:
      My cirteria is already explained above. It is "real" because, apart from existing, it is indeed happening outside your body: it's there no matter if you have perception of it or not. That's what defines "reality" to me. Dreams are real because they do exist, but they are not "real" because things you see in it are not actually happening out there.
      Well then we agree on one thing; Dreams are real experiences that exist. More than that is not nececairy to determine wether it's real. Allthough it doesn't happen out there, it happen's "in there". Meaning to say: It HAPPENS. That's all.

      A very good explaning example is this:

      Are Thoughts not real? You experience them don't you? But they're not outside the body. Still you percieve them. Some say "inside your head" because that's where the brain generates thoughts with chemical and electrical processes, but that doesn't answer the question "are thoughts real or not?" They are surely not outside your body, but I bet the actual thoughs, not the brainprocesses generating them, are nowhere to be found in the head either. Or anywhere in the body: Thoughts are abstract: you can't percieve them with your physical 5 senses. Yet you DO percieve thoughts don't you? The whole question of this Topic is parallel to this question: " Where" are thoughts? The actual thoughts you percieve. "Where" are they? You can't say they don't exist cuz why then do you think? And this is about thoughts, but the same goes for all other perceptions that can't be percieved with physical senses YET they are percieved nevertheless.

      Okay do you think thoughts are real?
      Last edited by SKA; 07-18-2007 at 11:33 AM.
      Luminous Spacious Dream Masters That Holographically Communicate
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      for doing so would make us Blind for the unimaginable, unparalleled Capacity of and Wisdom contained within our Felt Knowledge;Subconscious Intuition.

    2. #52
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      Depends on the definition of real. On the physiological concept you gave, yes they are real. But, semantically, you can think that "there is a pink elephant above your head". The thoughts exiosts, is real.. But the pink elephant isn't real.

      Those things you see in the corners of your vision are real, yes. But saying that they're some spiritual entity from out of your mind is pretty much dumb in my opinion. That's what I think you're wrong about. The only thing.
      ~Kromoh

      Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.

    3. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kromoh View Post
      Depends on the definition of real. On the physiological concept you gave, yes they are real. But, semantically, you can think that "there is a pink elephant above your head". The thoughts exiosts, is real.. But the pink elephant isn't real.

      Those things you see in the corners of your vision are real, yes. But saying that they're some spiritual entity from out of your mind is pretty much dumb in my opinion. That's what I think you're wrong about. The only thing.
      You know. I finally got you to see that all perceptions are real.
      And I don't really have an explanation for them allthough I find it interresting to theorise about it. I see the whole "Sprit"-explanation as merely Methaforical. There would be little other ways to describe it.

      But my point was that whatever it is it is real. There's a difference between non-physical true perceptions and delusions.

      And dreams are when thoughts become "things" and dreams are real enough experiences to be just as real as all the rest of my experiences was all I meant to say. I'm glad you considered my point of view It makes discussion so much better.
      Luminous Spacious Dream Masters That Holographically Communicate
      among other teachers taught me

      not to overestimate the Value of our Concrete Knowledge;"Common sense"/Rationality,
      for doing so would make us Blind for the unimaginable, unparalleled Capacity of and Wisdom contained within our Felt Knowledge;Subconscious Intuition.

    4. #54
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      Ahem, just a thing - you didn't make me see anything. You just came up with some concept issues to complicate things

      I was the first one to state the diference between the both realities bah


      But back to the discussion... Where did you guys see "shadowpeople" references? I'm interested in expanded theories.
      ~Kromoh

      Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.

    5. #55
      SKA
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      ... Sight*

      Anywayz..I could make some sketches of these Shadow figures I used to see all the time. The white ones and the black ones and how and where they would sneak up on me. I suggest we all sketch what we saw and do it as acurately as we can.
      Luminous Spacious Dream Masters That Holographically Communicate
      among other teachers taught me

      not to overestimate the Value of our Concrete Knowledge;"Common sense"/Rationality,
      for doing so would make us Blind for the unimaginable, unparalleled Capacity of and Wisdom contained within our Felt Knowledge;Subconscious Intuition.

    6. #56
      I AM YOUR WET DREAM tinkgirl0310's Avatar
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      I believe it... just the other day I was at home sitting on the couch and I saw out of the corner of my eye a dark shadow walk behind me... now I didn't get scared because I thought it was my dad until I realized no one was home I got a little scared...but then nothing happend. I have a lot of weird experiences with stuff like this. I'm one of the lucky ones i guess.

    7. #57
      Xyn
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      I personally believe that its really nothing. When im tired and resting I see things on the corner of my eye too. I think its just nothing, but we think it is.

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      Quote Originally Posted by tinkgirl0310 View Post
      I believe it... just the other day I was at home sitting on the couch and I saw out of the corner of my eye a dark shadow walk behind me... now I didn't get scared because I thought it was my dad until I realized no one was home ....
      Whoooaaa I'm freaked out...I would run away if i was on your place.

      Maybe some months ago I was watching Discovery channel and theres was one guy, some freaky doctor. He was explaining exactly that kinda "shadow people". For him that's nothing unusual. He said that those things are coming from the "death point" (or something like that) of the eye. It's the only place that the eyes dont receive light (can't see) ... and it's somwhere in the external corners of the eyes. The reason we see those things is because the brain is picking some kinda "wrong" signs of the eyes in those corners. They dissapear when you try to see them because you turn your eyes. Thats what that freak said about those things

      Still...I've seen once a shadow and i was freaked out. Maybe its not the brain... maybe it's some ghost or things like that, from an other dimension...
      seriously...I was really scared when I saw that shadow, good thing there was people around.

      There's a link to wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_people
      It actually says that shadow people exist

    9. #59
      I AM YOUR WET DREAM tinkgirl0310's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xyn View Post
      I personally believe that its really nothing. When im tired and resting I see things on the corner of my eye too. I think its just nothing, but we think it is.
      Come to my house...

      strange thigns happen there.

    10. #60
      Xyn
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      Ok where do you live xD

      I think DreamWaves responce in spretty accurate to what really happens though. Tinks the night you saw it, did you consume any drugs or anything out of the usuall?

    11. #61
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      Quote Originally Posted by DreamWave View Post
      Whoooaaa I'm freaked out...I would run away if i was on your place.

      Maybe some months ago I was watching Discovery channel and theres was one guy, some freaky doctor. He was explaining exactly that kinda "shadow people". For him that's nothing unusual. He said that those things are coming from the "death point" (or something like that) of the eye. It's the only place that the eyes dont receive light (can't see) ... and it's somwhere in the external corners of the eyes. The reason we see those things is because the brain is picking some kinda "wrong" signs of the eyes in those corners. They dissapear when you try to see them because you turn your eyes. Thats what that freak said about those things

      Still...I've seen once a shadow and i was freaked out. Maybe its not the brain... maybe it's some ghost or things like that, from an other dimension...
      seriously...I was really scared when I saw that shadow, good thing there was people around.

      There's a link to wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_people
      It actually says that shadow people exist

      this stuff used to scare me A LOT. But I can't stop it... and I've let it not bother me so much anymore. But the reason I know the other day I didn't jump right away cuz I thought it was my dad I mean I heard footsteps... and when I turned around no one was there. I got a little scared my stomach kinda sunk and I got a chill but I was like oh well I can't do anything about it.

      And my dogs can sense things... I hate at night when they look around and start barking at nothing that starts to freak me out a little

    12. #62
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xyn View Post
      Ok where do you live xD

      I think DreamWaves responce in spretty accurate to what really happens though. Tinks the night you saw it, did you consume any drugs or anything out of the usuall?
      I saw it during the day time... I don't do any drugs at all. I am not even a big drinker... it was pretty strange but I had stranger things happen when I was a kid my mom told me.

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      well...just try to ingore them (lol it's easier to say but harder to do)

      and...strange things heppened to you when you were a kid.? That's scary...well just tell yourself that they're all your friends.
      I use to have a friend that was trying to call those things...every night he was doing some kinda "rituals" on his table with a devil star on it and candles.
      yeah...good times anyways...he was saying that those shadow people and ghosts or whatever it is are his "friends". Try to do that (I mean ignore it) or just thing of something nice when it happens. It might sound stupid but who knows...maybe it can help

    14. #64
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      Quote Originally Posted by DreamWave View Post
      well...just try to ingore them (lol it's easier to say but harder to do)

      and...strange things heppened to you when you were a kid.? That's scary...well just tell yourself that they're all your friends.
      I use to have a friend that was trying to call those things...every night he was doing some kinda "rituals" on his table with a devil star on it and candles.
      yeah...good times anyways...he was saying that those shadow people and ghosts or whatever it is are his "friends". Try to do that (I mean ignore it) or just thing of something nice when it happens. It might sound stupid but who knows...maybe it can help
      see mine had to do with my relatives. After my grandpa passed away....

      I mean I'm starting to accept it because strange things happen that we can't explain. They have happened to me in the past and will probably continue. So I just learned to deal with what happens next.

      So my grandpa dies... and it's a week after he's burried. I'm shopping with my mom and grandma... ( I was only 2 or 3 years old) The lady at the store gives me a teddy bear and I ended up losing it and starting crying my ass off. On the way back to my grandma's house I am pulling my mom and grandma into the funeral home saying we have to go see my grandpa and he's there..... Well they kept saying he's not there he's in heaven... But I insist he's there NOW!!! So they're like fine we'll go and show you he's not there...

      So you have to ring the doorbell to get in the funeral home.... the guy let's us in and they show me the room my grandpa was laid out in and say "see he's not here he's in heaven..."

      As we were walking out we found my teddy bear inside the funeral home. The guy at the home said that NO ONE was there all day we were the only ones....

      Now how the hell did my toy get in there that I lost. Believe what you will my mom still gets shivers when she talks about that.

    15. #65
      Xyn
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      Wow, what a story, kind of freaky. I'm sorry for what you go through. Your life seems to have alot of paranormal activity in your life .

      I never have anything like that except one time I was alone upstairs and my door in the other room opened up...

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      well...i never said that ghosts dont exist...in fact i beleive in ghosts. well maybe not "ghosts" but more like spirits. some spirits have bad influence and others good... anyways one thing's for sure: strange things happens all the time and they will never stop
      even those "shadow people", it may be true or maybe not...who knows.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xyn View Post
      Wow, what a story, kind of freaky. I'm sorry for what you go through. Your life seems to have alot of paranormal activity in your life .

      I never have anything like that except one time I was alone upstairs and my door in the other room opened up...
      LOL
      I saw a plate of food go flying threw my kitchen once... So glad we had about 5 people over that saw it including my sister. So I know I wasn't crazy.

      But you know what I was scared at first about all this crap going on, but obviously it's for a reason. One I haven't figured out yet but I will. And I'm starting to get used to it. But don't be sorry it's gonna make me stronger some how, either that or give me a mental breakdown. LOL Nah I can handle it. I have another weird thing actually on video too. yea a lot of weird things do happen to me.

    18. #68
      Xyn
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      Quote Originally Posted by tinkgirl0310 View Post
      LOL
      I saw a plate of food go flying threw my kitchen once... So glad we had about 5 people over that saw it including my sister. So I know I wasn't crazy.

      But you know what I was scared at first about all this crap going on, but obviously it's for a reason. One I haven't figured out yet but I will. And I'm starting to get used to it. But don't be sorry it's gonna make me stronger some how, either that or give me a mental breakdown. LOL Nah I can handle it. I have another weird thing actually on video too. yea a lot of weird things do happen to me.
      You still amaze me, wow. I think it has something to do with Chicago, come live up here in Wisconsin xD The only thing you will see walking around are cows! And an occasion package of cheese flying around =P

      But really, my whole life I just believed that stuff like that doesn't happen and I guess it does. Im kinda suprised.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xyn View Post
      You still amaze me, wow. I think it has something to do with Chicago, come live up here in Wisconsin xD The only thing you will see walking around are cows! And an occasion package of cheese flying around =P

      But really, my whole life I just believed that stuff like that doesn't happen and I guess it does. Im kinda suprised.

      I never wanted to believe it because my mom believes in all that weird shit... but then it started happening to me more and more. And I just deal with it, sometimes it's scary. But it doesn't happen daily thank goodness or I'd suffer from insomnia. But it's kinda of interesting at times. hahah I will be coming to lake geneva soon. I love it there.

    20. #70
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      Oh, the lakes up here are beutifull. Theres so many of them and so fun. My aunt has a cottage way up in upper Wisconsin and I go up there usually once a year.

      But yeah, I thank god crap like what happens to you doesn't happen to me cause I'm a pus** when it comes to that sort of stuff. It keeps me up all night frightened just thinking about stuff like that =P Yeah, you have to be pretty strong to go through what you do though.

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      Quote Originally Posted by tinkgirl0310 View Post
      I have another weird thing actually on video too. yea a lot of weird things do happen to me.
      wow...wait. How can u recrod something weird on video? I mean you knew it would happen and record it or what?

    22. #72
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      how can you record something you saw with your eyes?
      ~Kromoh

      Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.

    23. #73
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      Quote Originally Posted by kenietz View Post
      Castaneda speaks about this. But he says it is death itself. He says you can see this shadow if you look very quickly to your left. But my memory can be false
      now I dont want to look to quickly to my left now, hold me

      paranormal stuff has happend to me too, alot kinda...

      me and my family think my aunts house is hounted, when the first moved there they had a strange smell in the closet, that went away after two weeks, they lost a tea cup and never found it, there son would "talk to ghost", they lost his game boy for a few days and found it in a spot they knew they looked at before, they said a skate board moved on its own, I lost something there and found it in a place I knew I didnt put it, when they were digging a hole in the basement to fix the house or something my uncles arm was almost torn from its socket while he was sleeping, a door in the basement flew open randomly, I saw somone in the bath tub looking at me though the mirror, my cousins room would get cold spots, there dog would bark randomly in hall at nothing, and when my uncle told the ghost to stop messing with them, they havent had andything stange happen to them sinse

      one time after my dog died I was laying in bed and I saw a dog walk into the room, I went to get cheatos try and get it on the bed, I looked agian and it was gone, I asked my mom or dad if any dogs left the living room and they said no.

      at my one grandmas house she said my uncle ran though a yellowish mist that was cold, and she had a fan that didnt work, she had a friend that said when he died he would make the fan work, so when he died she turned on the fan, thats the only time it worked.

      I was at my other grandmas house and I nocked on the bathroom door several times and I got a knock back, I knocked more and there was now anser, I opend the door and no one was in there and the shower was dripping, the last time someone there took a shower was early in the morning

      a few weekes ago my great grandma died, ever sinse then me and my mom have had these wierd phycic expirences. the first one was when we were talking about somthing at the store, a few seconds later they said the same words on the radio and it wasnt realated to the product we were talking about, the same day my dad was talking about a town and then we heard about that on the radio, the next day or so I was thinking of the song "brown eyed girl" but replaying the brown with green, a few minutes later a song called green eyed lady played and I never heard of that song before, me and my mom were at a restaurant talking about what happend if you didnt have enough money to pay, she said the they would call the police, a few seconds later a police car pulled up into the parking lot, a few days later at the same restourant, I was thinking of sylvia brown (shes some phycic on montel) I looked up at the tv and she was on it, I was thinking of green eyed lady again and it played a few minutes later, we had the radio on for hours and thats the only time we heard it, and I think there were more that I cant remember.

      ok one more thing I can remember, I had a dream about a suinamy and the next day I heard about the one that happend on christmas, I had this strange feeling one day that a bus crash was going to be on the news and there was one.

      well thats all I can think of right now, sorry for any grammar or spelling errors, my arm has this wierd twitch now, I'm kinda freaking out.

      edit: I just remembered more stuff when my other dog died, my mom said she sow the dog in the corner of her eye, when we got home from somewere we heard that dogs bark, its diferent from the other ones, and we looked at a toy and I had a dog that looked just like her.

      edit:

      Quote Originally Posted by Kromoh View Post
      how can you record something you saw with your eyes?
      with a camera of course
      Last edited by Sugarglider11; 08-13-2007 at 05:05 AM. Reason: Because I can

      ^Probably

      Join the Lucid dreaming book project!

    24. #74
      I AM YOUR WET DREAM tinkgirl0310's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xyn View Post
      Oh, the lakes up here are beutifull. Theres so many of them and so fun. My aunt has a cottage way up in upper Wisconsin and I go up there usually once a year.

      But yeah, I thank god crap like what happens to you doesn't happen to me cause I'm a pus** when it comes to that sort of stuff. It keeps me up all night frightened just thinking about stuff like that =P Yeah, you have to be pretty strong to go through what you do though.
      I just started to not let it bug me... for a long time it would piss my mom off because I'd be up all night watching tv or doing anything I could to go back to sleep. A few times I'd leave my house and go stay with my friends. It was bad for a while I would get really freaked out. But now I don't care I don't let it bother me. I'm trying to figure out what it means now.

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      I AM YOUR WET DREAM tinkgirl0310's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by DreamWave View Post
      wow...wait. How can u recrod something weird on video? I mean you knew it would happen and record it or what?

      No, my friend and I made videos when we were younger (we were 15)... and we hung out at the mall a lot and there was this kid and his nickname was Lucifer. lol

      well I'm on camera and I said "today we went to the mall and oh yea we saw mike, sean, and lucifer"

      all of a sudden the video camera shuts off. Thinking ok no big deal turn it back on and I said Lucifer again. Once again the camera shuts off again. Now we're getting nervous...

      turn the camera back on... I start talking for a few minutes about something else.... camera is fine. All of a sudden I say Lucifer again the camera shuts off again. So we turn it back on and I'm like I"M NOT SAYING IT ANYMORE. And the camera was fine... I think we ended up running downstairs and telling my mom. LOL

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