Thread: Why do You believe?

Have you thought about not justifying your beliefs because if you are justifying it than its not a belief its confusion....I know why not start with trusting yourself you are a capable person who can make your own findings based on you. Even if there are facts to back up someones arguement at the end of the day its all about YOU....Meditate with LOVE and the answer will come to you....

I go through these phases as well. But each time I give up hope something always happens to get me back on track.

I've had these amazing dreams as far as I can remember...and they have given me information I wouldn't have known in my waking life. It's kind of like being psychic in my sleep. I think these dreams keep me sane because they reassure me there IS something out there...this is not just in my head.

And then I look to other people's experiences which give me peace of mind as well.
I think the signs are all around us but we really need to pay attention.

Originally Posted by george

I am going through a phase, perhaps that is the correct term, of trying to justify my beliefs. I want to believe in things not material, but there remains the nagging thought that materialistic worldviews can equally explain the (objective) phenomena, like consciousness, dreams, out of body experiences etc.

What are your reasons, if you have any, for believing in things "beyond dreaming"? What event in your life has convinced you beyond doubt?

If you do not believe, it is not necessary that you reply. I am aware of those reasons. I am looking for for-arguments.

Thank you

not that my reply is of any use here, but I agree exactly! I could have posted the exact same question even down to the non-believers not needing to reply. So thank you!

Originally Posted by Keiju

because the further you look into the material, the more you will find it explains the "non-material" and vice versa

there is no such thing as spiritual and material, both are the same, existence entire is made of the same thing, spiritual and material,

theres no argument here, only ignorance , i mean it in the sincerest way possible ~_~

at least this is my view, but i see no possible counter this seems a case of just getting mixed up with words and not fully understanding what you mean by them, its like the difference between religion and science... they are both looking at the same thing, just from different angles, science is simply another form of religion and vice versa

you will see the merging of science and religion on a worldwide scale, this is whats coming for us,

In my opinion, this is also over-simplifying ^
Of course reality is reality and truth is truth, but things as-of-yet-mostly-unexplainable-by-science like ESP, ghosts, dreamsharing, etc.; are they real? What is your answer for that?
(btw not trying to be a dick )

I think what is real depends on you. If you experienced something weird and you believe it happened, then for you, it did. If you think about what all experiences are, signals from nerves being interpreted by your brain and then compiled into your current experience, then it's hard to say what's real and what's not. Things you experience can be very real to you, but for someone else who hasn't experienced it, it isn't real at all. I see this all the time with people arguing over beliefs (which is a waste of time, belief has a hard time with facts, because if there were facts to back it up, it wouldn't be a belief.) That makes me question what facts even are. Just things that are tested that all happen to have the same result during those tests. I think science is very important for making things easier to do, but all the scientific facts, are just models that approximate reality to a degree we can work with. Everything breaks down in the small scale. So much so that there is even a branch of science that is concerned with this small scale stuff. I see no reason to believe in science, but the models and formulas that come out of science definitely are useful tools for getting stuff done. You just have to know when to apply the different models and ways of thinking about things for different scenarios.

I believe because I want to believe. Why limit what you can experience? Saying things are impossible or can't happen only make them harder to do. (yes, some things are impossible, like jumping 100 ft in the air etc.) but with most things, I think it's all about how you experience it. If you look for reasons that things can't happen, you'll find them. Also, if you look for reasons that things can happen, you'll find those too. It depends on what you're looking for because you can mentally disregard stuff you don't want to hear about. I think "crazy" people are awesome, for them, all the weird stuff they experience IS their 'reality'. What makes things real is all in your head, just look at religious extremists.

I think it is logic and mathematics. Yes materialism can explain everything, but everything in a material universe is predetermined by what has come before. In billiards, the outcome of one shot is determined by how they are hit, and the weight of the balls and other things. If there were no life, every thing that has and will ever happen, including the exact position of a single atom in a star 10 billion years from now, IS determined by the "big bang," and that was determined by something before. If time has no beginning, it could have been like this forever, and it will never end.

What meaning is there in that reality? why have existence at all?

But, If you have something that is determined, then there must be something else that is not determined, to balance it out. Just like matter has anti matter, and all that.

Therefore, the spiritual realm must exist. Every physical object or event has a cooresponding spiritual reality.

Actually, materialism cannot explain one thing: consiousness

I believe the most likely reasonable option for a given situation, based on scientific knowledge as I understand it to apply. I try to prove or define as many things as possible, but if something is improvable but seems, to me, the moist logical option, I believe it, despite that it has not been proven by all or most applicable, observable, daa, as long as it has not been disproven by something in which IO believe more thoroughly. If two belefs cancel each other out, I theorize and run mental simulations, and when possible real-life tests, until the data reconciles. I define it in a way that it would not be belief if I only believed in what has been proven, as that is closed-mindedness far beyond any religion, as it keeps progress from occuring to any degree whatsoever. So, anyway, that;s it.

Well I think the fact that everything in the universe is just so organized shows that there is some sort of consciousness in the background. Otherwise, there wouldn't be physical or chemical laws, because things would just happen in any way and not a specific way every time (concerning those laws, of course).
Basically, I think nature has a will of its own and therefore is conscious.

I personally believe every human has the ability to create there own heaven. I think when you send out positive energy, your soul creates his home. When you don't and instead choose negative energy, you create a black hole enviroment, known as HELL, where nothing comes in, and no one come out. That's my belief. I think there is a God of constant energy. I believe that time is fixated on mankind and that without time, the world would be so much better.

I believe all this, and as a human, it will all come to me. If people really understood how powerful they were, we would never have this kind of a post.

I once held a ritual and got a person possessed. That was very real. I've had a lot of other peoples anecdotes too. I know them to be reasonable, honest people. So why assume they're lying about this one experience?

Also, my meditative visualisation experiences and nightmares imply another, and the most effective way of dealing with them is as though they are real. Therefore I treat them as such.

Originally Posted by Leolibby82

I think it is logic and mathematics. Yes materialism can explain everything, but everything in a material universe is predetermined by what has come before. In billiards, the outcome of one shot is determined by how they are hit, and the weight of the balls and other things. If there were no life, every thing that has and will ever happen, including the exact position of a single atom in a star 10 billion years from now, IS determined by the "big bang," and that was determined by something before. If time has no beginning, it could have been like this forever, and it will never end.

What meaning is there in that reality? why have existence at all?

But, If you have something that is determined, then there must be something else that is not determined, to balance it out. Just like matter has anti matter, and all that.

Therefore, the spiritual realm must exist. Every physical object or event has a cooresponding spiritual reality.

Actually, materialism cannot explain one thing: consiousness

I don't know, but I think you are very right. The realm of consciousness does not physically exist at all does it? I mean, the brain is corporeal, yes; but thoughts are not--the brain is their corporeal representation.

So, it seems to me that "real," physical thitngs only exist as perceived by consciousness(es). But without that concrete, physical reality, consciousness would have no ground to stand on. It's almost like reality is the manifestation of some single rule of dualism: black exists purely as a frame of reference for white--and vice versa.

But with this, can somebody tell me what the "spiritual" is?

Originally Posted by fktizle

I personally believe every human has the ability to create there own heaven. I think when you send out positive energy, your soul creates his home. When you don't and instead choose negative energy, you create a black hole enviroment, known as HELL, where nothing comes in, and no one come out. That's my belief. I think there is a God of constant energy. I believe that time is fixated on mankind and that without time, the world would be so much better.

I think that is sort of brilliant. Except, why is time bad in your opinion?

Originally Posted by apachama

I once held a ritual and got a person possessed. That was very real. I've had a lot of other peoples anecdotes too. I know them to be reasonable, honest people. So why assume they're lying about this one experience?

I don't think you should so much assume that those people are lying, but simply mistaken. And maybe you are mistaken as well, but I certainly don't know. Once I saw a hypnotist hypnotizing a group of high school seniors. Many people I talked to about it were completely convinced that all these kids were indeed hypnitized.. I did not. The kids were indeed doing everything the hypnotist said. But before he "hypnotized" them, he essentially said that you have to let it work--which basically means do what he tells you, which looks alot like being hypnotized doesn't it? Now I don't believe those kids were lying when they said they were hypnotized; they were just probably mistaken.

Originally Posted by jamous

Once I saw a hypnotist hypnotizing a group of high school seniors. Many people I talked to about it were completely convinced that all these kids were indeed hypnotized.. I did not. The kids were indeed doing everything the hypnotist said. But before he "hypnotized" them, he essentially said that you have to let it work--which basically means do what he tells you, which looks alot like being hypnotized doesn't it? Now I don't believe those kids were lying when they said they were hypnotized; they were just probably mistaken.

You do have to allow yourself to be hypnotized (at least when multiple people are being hypnotized at once). But once you are in a state of hypnosis you follow the directions of the hypnotist whether you feel rebellious or not.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

It often appears as if the hypnotized participant accepts the authority of the hypnotist over his or her own experience. When asked after the conclusion of such a session, some participants claim to be genuinely unable to recall the incident, while others say that they had known the hypnotist was wrong, but, at the time, it had seemed easier just to go along with his instructions. (Richard Feynman describes this, in his memoir Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!, as his own hypnotic experience.)

They probably were hypnotized (at least most of them), and you were the one who was mistaken.

Originally Posted by fktizle

I believe that time is fixated on mankind and that without time, the world would be so much better.

How? There was time before humans (then again there's no way to verify that, which may have been your point) but without humans the world wouldn't be better off it would be completely frozen. Actually by your belief it would seem that the world couldn't be better or worse and it couldn't even exist.

Originally Posted by fktizle

I believe all this, and as a human, it will all come to me. If people really understood how powerful they were, we would never have this kind of a post.

It can't all happen unless it is already true in which case there's no point to that sentence (am I understanding it right ).

Originally Posted by Leolibby82

If there were no life, every thing that has and will ever happen, including the exact position of a single atom in a star 10 billion years from now, IS determined by the "big bang," and that was determined by something before.

You're forgetting how on the atomic level and below, certain things are completely random.

Originally Posted by Leolibby82

If time has no beginning, it could have been like this forever, and it will never end.

What meaning is there in that reality? why have existence at all?

Without reality what would there be? Is it even possible not to have reality? Is possibility even an adequate word to explain this? Very confusing!

Originally Posted by Leolibby82

But, If you have something that is determined, then there must be something else that is not determined, to balance it out. Just like matter has anti matter, and all that.

Like how matter has to follow physical laws but the laws are random?

Originally Posted by Leolibby82

Therefore, the spiritual realm must exist. Every physical object or event has a cooresponding spiritual reality.

Actually, materialism cannot explain one thing: consiousness

It may then be possible that this "spiritual reality" is much like a parent universe to ours which is (or sentient beings within it are) able to define the non-determined elements within our universe. But then the non-determined elements in our universe are also determined but not here. Unless the parenthesized element is true. Then it would be undetermined until it is done. Then these beings must get sentience from somewhere, right?"

Originally Posted by jamous

I don't think you should so much assume that those people are lying, but simply mistaken. And maybe you are mistaken as well, but I certainly don't know. Once I saw a hypnotist hypnotizing a group of high school seniors. Many people I talked to about it were completely convinced that all these kids were indeed hypnitized.. I did not. The kids were indeed doing everything the hypnotist said. But before he "hypnotized" them, he essentially said that you have to let it work--which basically means do what he tells you, which looks alot like being hypnotized doesn't it? Now I don't believe those kids were lying when they said they were hypnotized; they were just probably mistaken.

Hm. From what I've seen of hypnotism, and from being hypnotised myself its a lot like that. For me it felt kind of like an illusion. But, if it comes with the effects of being hypnotised, its hypnosis. Similarly, I can't deny its possible I hypnotised someone almost accidentally.

But, religious experience is a big field, filled with experiences that have really changed people's lives. All I can say for sure about these experiences is that people really experience them.

People still disagree with me on that. Which is where skepticism gets rediculous to me.

As far as mystical explanations go: following their recommendations seems to work.

Originally Posted by Dodopod

You're forgetting how on the atomic level and below, certain things are completely random.

I don't think we know enough about the atomic level of things to be able to say for sure that certain things are completely random. There are so many variables that affect the outcomes of things that it does seem very random. I'm willing to bet that if we could somehow account for the millions of variables, that certain things would seem a lot more deterministic. I still disagree that our actions are predetermined however. I think we do decide our own fate. I just think that in the physical realm, every action has a predictable effect, if you can account for how things work together, which in many cases is impossible for us. But just because we don't have the ability to perform the calculations, doesn't mean that it must be random, it just means that the universe is very complicated, perhaps beyond our understanding.

Originally Posted by saxonharp

Interesting. I'm curious what you used to come to this conclusion. Of the 1,634 studies published in the American Medical Association's peer-reviewed journal on the power of prayer in healing, 218 stated that prayer provided no physical benefit, 385 were "inconclusive" and 1,031 noted a "statistically significant" increased recovery rate for those who were prayed for.

Despite your crassness, I'd be interested to know if this opinion of yours is based on anything other than a personal bias?

Praying is along the same lines as casting a spell.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Praying is along the same lines as casting a spell.

Except that it WORKS... 63% of the time.

It's amazing what just belief can do. Look at the placebo effect for example, people take a fake pill, and heal themselves just with their mind. That makes me wonder how much more belief can accomplish. I'd guess that the successful prayers came from people with a stronger belief that their prayer would come true. Lucid dreaming is also very effected by what you believe. I've been able to control things in dreams, just by believing that events would unfold a specific way, and they did.

Some of you believe in prayer, some in God. I, for one, rest my faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I believe in myself, and not much else.