Thread: OBE dangerous?

Sorry if this is not in the right place; I had forgotten that there was a forum for that kind of stuff.

Also, all I wanted was to have many people saying it was secure so I can reassure my mom telling her that I have pros' opinions.

My philosophy is agnostic about everything. I'm just saying... I cannot know what happnes after I die, if OBEs are real etc. There are so many possibilities where one is better or worse than the other. Being trapped "outside" is just one of them you thought up or read somewhere. I can tell you a hundred more "theories" about OBEs that might shock you beyond belief (if you believe me ). If you believe in the paranormal or not, there is nothing you can do to stop the nature of the universe whatever it may be.

For those reasons my belief can't be anything but atheistic. If you believe in this stuff, be my guest, I don't judge. Sorry if this might be viewed as opression of other peoples' beliefs, but I can't tell you how safe I view it, if this is how I view it.

From a believers point of view, I'm no pro. But I'm sure that others who are pro will tell you or have told you already how safe it is. It's all relative in the end, no?

Don't worry be happy.

I don't understand these words you used to describe your believes. I have only been speaking english for 3 years.

My belief is that I won't believe or not believe until I have a proof.
Per exemple: I won't believe in OBEs until I have a proof. However, I won't belive that OBEs don't exist until I have a proof they don't exist.

You might say "it's impossible to prove something doesn't exist other than common sense" so I'll tell you this... Not believing that OBEs don't exist won't have any negative influence in my life if I also don't believe in them. My mind is open. It will stay open as long as it has too and anyways, why would I ever need to decide if I want to go in or out? Personnaly, I prefer leaving it open so I can easily see both opinions.

Another exemple would be that I don't believe in God but I also don't believe that God doesn't exist. The two possibilities are opened to me.

What good is it not to have a stable opinion on something like this? It can't hurt me. Some people that believe in God really hurt themselves by exagerating and some people that don't believe in God have other negative effects on their lives. I just leave the door open.

OBEs proved/disproved:

1. Find someone that can achieve the supposed state of OBE.
2. With their consent, blindfold them and take them to a location unknown to them.
3. Let them sleep, and monitor them throughout.
4. Make sure at no point that they remove the blindfold.
5. Escort them back to the original location.
6. Ask them to describe the location they were at when they had the OBE.

If they are correct, then OBEs must be real, no? Unfortunately, it's difficult to explore such a scenario.

It depends on what you view as proof. And then it depends on what this proof actually proves. I have experienced an OBE and for me they are real. What do they really mean? As I said a few posts up. FAs, Hypnagogia, Dreaming, some x hallucination or perception malfunction (if you can call it that ).

Since I don't believe in a soul, I'd tell you that it's very unlikely that you get stuck outside of your body.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

It depends on what you view as proof. And then it depends on what this proof actually proves. I have experienced an OBE and for me they are real. What do they really mean? As I said a few posts up. FAs, Hypnagogia, Dreaming, some x hallucination or perception malfunction (if you can call it that ).

Since I don't believe in a soul, I'd tell you that it's very unlikely that you get stuck outside of your body.

Bonsai trees have souls!

Originally Posted by Quark

OBEs proved/disproved:

1. Find someone that can achieve the supposed state of OBE.
2. With their consent, blindfold them and take them to a location unknown to them.
3. Let them sleep, and monitor them throughout.
4. Make sure at no point that they remove the blindfold.
5. Escort them back to the original location.
6. Ask them to describe the location they were at when they had the OBE.

If they are correct, then OBEs must be real, no? Unfortunately, it's difficult to explore such a scenario.

That's not what OBEs are usually like and actually it makes more sense that way, because without body you don't have eyes. I'm having it - a lot recently - and the only thing I could say is what I believe it is, but there's nothing to know.

Originally Posted by gigaschatten

That's not what OBEs are usually like and actually it makes more sense that way, because without body you don't have eyes. I'm having it - a lot recently - and the only thing I could say is what I believe it is, but there's nothing to know.

What do you, personally, experience in an OBE? And if not through eyes, then what do you perceive, visually?

Originally Posted by Quark

What do you, personally, experience in an OBE? And if not through eyes, then what do you perceive, visually?

Browse my posts, I gave a report just recently.

Originally Posted by gigaschatten

Browse my posts, I gave a report just recently.

'The room looked exactly as I could recall it from consensus reality (CR), the blinds of the balcony doors were down and it was dark outside. I turned on the light, which worked perfectly with the usual short delay and increasing brightness of power saving gas lamps.'

That's me point: if you were asleep in a room that you were unaware of in the waking world, then to describe it, even vaguely, would support the conclusion that OBEs exist. I'm neither a believer nor a non-believer, I'm simply searching for truth - I've had similar experiences as yours above, which I have denoted as OBEs.

Originally Posted by Abra

Some people choose to believe that ghosts

I didnt CHOOSE to believe in ghosts

I SAW THEM WITH MY OWN EYES, and the experience was SHARED.

end of story

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Well, if when you read something during an OBE and it doesn't change when you read it again or if you all the alarm clocks in the house give the same time and that the minutes go by at a normal speed, then it would mean the OBE your having is real...

I don't think that'll work Anyway, when I read the topic title I was like: "fsck that." Sometimes when you're having an OBE, you have a cord attached from your dream body to your 'real' body. (which is just a manifestation of your subcon). Ooglyboogly (as so readily put by someone here) people say you shouldn't break that 'astral cord'.
Thing is, many people have tried. All those people have returned to the waking state, alive.

Oh, and when I ever have a near-death experience, I'm going to try to act as if it were a LD. Might cost me my life, but I don't think so

Theres enough people who believe and experience what they think are OBE's.
If there was any real proof it would be out in the world by now.

Not sure that not not believing in something until you have proof it doesn't exist is an honest assesment. By that definition if someone told you there was an invisible pink elephant hovering over your head, but only they could see him, you probably wouldn't want to take it seriously. I suspect you're still applying some degree of probable.

Anyway, I have a tendency to go with Occams razor.

For every explanation/justification for OBE's, there a much simpler explanation in Lucid dreaming with a false awakening.

For example, do you really find your body at the otherside of the universe and were lucky enough to find Alien beings, and further more, were inprobably luck to find a race of beings that can see and interact with your psychic projection.
Are are you just dreaming it? The Alien theory is so improbable that it can readily be dismissed.

If you check out OBE believer sites you will find many obvious rationalisations.
My favourite..."when you're astral travelling in your bedroom, you may find there are small differences. For example your room may have extra windows etc."
Oh rly?

Some new agers go looking to be one with the "light".
1) Whilst astral travelling they find and become one with the light. They have an intense spiritural experience.
Or 2) Dreams are driven by expectation. They can be controlled by the dreamer.
They found what they wanted/expected to find during a lucid dream.
Which is more likely?

Just my tuppence worth.

Originally Posted by moonshine

Not sure that not not believing in something until you have proof it doesn't exist is an honest assesment. By that definition if someone told you there was an invisible pink elephant hovering over your head, but only they could see him, you probably wouldn't want to take it seriously. I suspect you're still applying some degree of probable.

I do use my common sense but, what I mean is that if someone came to me and said there was an invisible pink elephant hovering over my head but only them could see it and if I could see that that person was not just trying to make fun of me, I wouldn't tell them there stupid, because maybe its their imaginary friend or an illusion and then its true to them so I'd believe them but I wouldn't go saying "Did you know Invisible pink elephants can fly?" I'd just forget about it, not really stating an opinion on it...

OK, I know, I'm exagerating! If someone told me that I would defenitly not believe them, but its so bad not to believe, 'cause imagine its true, that person is all alone, no one believing her/him! It's just that inivisible pink elephant sound really silly and inprobable, but ghosts... They are invisible/transparent silver humans/animals. It almost sound as stupid because elephant is in the category of animal, so the invisble pink elephant could be a ghost, and then, with a color... Forget all that ***. What I mean is that I won't go to people say ghost don't exist. I'm leaving a door open to the idea that ghost might exist just as I would leave my mind open to the fact that God might exist without making it my belief. DO you understand or I talk too comfusly, because that might be it... (comfusion)

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

I do use my common sense but, what I mean is that if someone came to me and said there was an invisible pink elephant hovering over my head but only them could see it and if I could see that that person was not just trying to make fun of me, I wouldn't tell them there stupid, because maybe its their imaginary friend or an illusion and then its true to them so I'd believe them but I wouldn't go saying "Did you know Invisible pink elephants can fly?" I'd just forget about it, not really stating an opinion on it...

OK, I know, I'm exagerating! If someone told me that I would defenitly not believe them, but its so bad not to believe, 'cause imagine its true, that person is all alone, no one believing her/him! It's just that inivisible pink elephant sound really silly and inprobable, but ghosts... They are invisible/transparent silver humans/animals. It almost sound as stupid because elephant is in the category of animal, so the invisble pink elephant could be a ghost, and then, with a color... Forget all that ***. What I mean is that I won't go to people say ghost don't exist. I'm leaving a door open to the idea that ghost might exist just as I would leave my mind open to the fact that God might exist without making it my belief. DO you understand or I talk too comfusly, because that might be it... (comfusion)

I understand you.

I'm more interested in hearing what you think about occams razor theory.
OBE's (of all varietys) can readily be explained by dream mechanics.

Originally Posted by moonshine

I understand you.

I'm more interested in hearing what you think about occams razor theory.
OBE's (of all varietys) can readily be explained by dream mechanics.

well I don't know much about OBEs or AP in the sense most people know them. But in case OBE means you leave your body and succeed in moving in THIS world, I have nothing to say

but idea of astral projection cannot be explained always with dream mechanics, that's at least what I know still the same feeling of exiting your body.

Originally Posted by Unelias

well I don't know much about OBEs or AP in the sense most people know them. But in case OBE means you leave your body and succeed in moving in THIS world, I have nothing to say

but idea of astral projection cannot be explained always with dream mechanics, that's at least what I know still the same feeling of exiting your body.

WHAT part cannot be explained with dream mechanics?

I found it hard to be explained with dream mechanics if you are not asleep?

I am talking about shamanistic "AP".

Originally Posted by Unelias

I found it hard to be explained with dream mechanics if you are not asleep?

I am talking about shamanistic "AP".

Labeling "shamanistic" isn't going to automatically make it unexplainable with dream mechanics. By the there is such a thing called "hallucinations" - it doesn't require you to sleep yet it is related to dreaming.

No it doesn't but neither does it make it explainable. I was simply pointing out that not everything like that can be easily explained via dream mechanics

About hallucinations related to dreaming. I am not quite sure what do you mean, but you can achieve i.e WILD without hallucinations. "Hallucinations" usually occur when you are entering into altered state of mind. WILD state can be considered as a different form of trance since you are in a half-sleep state.

In shamanistic trance you rarely drift to sleepstate. That is different thing. I at least continue drumming and hymning while I shift and it continues the whole process

So I wouldn't necessarily say that if something is explained through hallucinations, it would be explained with dream mechanics.

Another word for shamanistic trance is simple meditation.

No offence. Nothing against your beliefs.
But I do personally feel that Lucid dreaming is a complex enough issue.

Tie in religion and the like and it becomes even more difficult to navigate.

There is a Beyond dreaming section in the forum where you will be free to express your views with like minded people.

Originally Posted by moonshine

Another word for shamanistic trance is simple meditation.

Well I wouldn't make them same concepts just because they focus on changing mindstate. Meditation is usually just clearing your head and focusing your thoughts while trance is quite different and can be invoked with other means than tranquility.

No offence. Nothing against your beliefs.
But I do personally feel that Lucid dreaming is a complex enough issue.

Of course, I am not offended. Lucid dreaming is quite complex, but I was no the one who steered the conversation to this road

Tie in religion and the like and it becomes even more difficult to navigate.

This is true too, but luckily we haven't tied religion here, have we?

There is a Beyond dreaming section in the forum where you will be free to express your views with like minded people.

The Beyond Dreaming forum, in which we are now, aren't we? This thread is in BD forum so I don't think we are going overboard in anyway. Regardless, I only answered to the dream mechanics part and pointed out that they cannot used to easily explain everything that has same symptoms as OBE or AP

Originally Posted by Unelias

This is true too, but luckily we haven't tied religion here, have we?

No, but I'm afraid you believe in stuff without a shred of evidence, like religious people do.
Oh, and before this was moved to beyond dreaming, it was in extended discussion. I think you know that.

But now that it's in Beyond dreaming I will not attempt to challenge your beliefs anymore.

There is still nothing about beliefs or religion here. There is clear (scientifical, which seems to be important word in every occasion) evidence that trance is a viable state where you can hallucinate. I have not stated in this thread that there would be actual evidence that "AP" or "OBE" would be nothing more than hallucinations. What I am saying is that not all "OBE" or "AP" require the user to be asleep, therefore they cannot be explained via dream mechanics.

Actually I didn't know this was in extended my apologies, since when I replied I think it was already in BD.

But what I am against is that you cannot explain them with mere dream mechanics.