Thread: Is there more to lucid dreaming than most of us realise?..

Originally Posted by Neko-san

It's not called being blind, it's just being smart and logical. Why believe in some higher might/spiritual stuff when you got no proof? If you have experienced it somehow your self then it would be logical, but if not then I see no reason to believe.

To me dreaming is just dreaming, nothing spiritual.

You're both entitled to your opinions. Proof or no proof, maybe he has his own personal proof. Does it matter?

I think it's fair to argue opinion as long as you don't start offending someone too much in which case you can stop at that point. If not you're basically just hindering discourse which is what society has been doing for so long or attempting to (ie. mandatory confessions existed, etc.).

I think there's a likely scientific explanation we don't know about (higher dimensions, multiverses, etc.) that could explain it all without the need for a supreme omnipotent diety. If there was some sort of "thing" (this could also include particles, etc.) that started it there is really no reason it had to be all-knowing and focused on humans that are really 0% of the whole. My opinion is mostly against organized religion. There are just too many, they have been changed around too much, and much too many flaws in each (alot of the stuff which there is more than enough evidence to discount but people still argue atleast in the originals). Not to mention unless you believe in a synthesis of them which the majority discount right in their scriptures, all but 1 could be immediately discounted. It's just that there are too many factors like geographical distribution that make it seem too perfect that those religions sprouted in those areas and immigration patterns account for deviations. In countries without that it makes perfect sense why they have the religious distributions (that isn't the perfect example but there are so many things like that that are just too likely to be coincidence or some other reason).

Good points and debate all. One puzzling thing though. Even with no God, no religion I don't see how (assuming a Big Bang did occur) that the laws of physics could produce anything of it's on accord that's metaphysical, ie life after death, mental telepathy, reincarnation, magic, etc.

With NO possible intelligent force or entity out there, physics is physics and according to the 1st law of thermodynamics (the entropy one) .. things gradually become less organized, not more organized over time. Hence I don't see how or why anything other than the reality that we observe should even exist if no intelligent power of any kind exists MEANING ..

boom, universe .. chance reaction, life .. you live, you die. End of story. My problem is trying to figure out how the laws of physics on their own could create lifeforms that exist after death and decay and have metaphysical abilities while alive. Surely nature itself doesn't have intelligence. If not then without any higher power all these things just happened to become reality. The funny thing is that even some that don't believe in a God somehow believe that some higher "something" makes all that possible.
The question then becomes, who or what is that something and where did it come from.

Without a higher power it's easy to see how a quantum disturbance created something out of nothing, populated a physical universe and/or multiple quantum universes and dimensions where life sprouted. Nothing more, nothing less. Conversely if a higher power was behind all this who knows what's possible because that power would not have to work within the laws of physics.

Originally Posted by Lucid Lobster

With NO possible intelligent force or entity out there, physics is physics and according to the 1st law of thermodynamics (the entropy one) .. things gradually become less organized, not more organized over time. Hence I don't see how or why anything other than the reality that we observe should even exist if no intelligent power of any kind exists MEANING ..

I admit that I don't totally understand entropy. But, do you?
I'm quite certain that if this was such a shocking reality, everybody would know of it. But I don't see why this reality shouldn't exist.
Big bang - lots of energy - universe expands - matter cools - binds - particles attract each other - more explosions - heavier elements created - more gravity action - planets - chemical reactions - life. At which point do you think that things should've become less organized and why?

I actually watched all of his videos over the past 3 days or so, and if you ignore some of the really insance shit he says, it actually makes sense.

He talks about 2012, and that he doesn't believe that the world is coming to an end, but he believes something else.

And all the people that " need the proof " he's one of the first who actually provides a ton of proof on his theory.

I'm not sure whether I believe his theory, but he has evidence to support his idea.

Originally Posted by Lucid Lobster

Good points and debate all. One puzzling thing though. Even with no God, no religion I don't see how (assuming a Big Bang did occur) that the laws of physics could produce anything of it's on accord that's metaphysical, ie life after death, mental telepathy, reincarnation, magic, etc.

With NO possible intelligent force or entity out there, physics is physics and according to the 1st law of thermodynamics (the entropy one) .. things gradually become less organized, not more organized over time. Hence I don't see how or why anything other than the reality that we observe should even exist if no intelligent power of any kind exists MEANING ..

boom, universe .. chance reaction, life .. you live, you die. End of story. My problem is trying to figure out how the laws of physics on their own could create lifeforms that exist after death and decay and have metaphysical abilities while alive. Surely nature itself doesn't have intelligence. If not then without any higher power all these things just happened to become reality. The funny thing is that even some that don't believe in a God somehow believe that some higher "something" makes all that possible.
The question then becomes, who or what is that something and where did it come from.

Without a higher power it's easy to see how a quantum disturbance created something out of nothing, populated a physical universe and/or multiple quantum universes and dimensions where life sprouted. Nothing more, nothing less. Conversely if a higher power was behind all this who knows what's possible because that power would not have to work within the laws of physics.

I don't think people give nature enough credit.

I understand everything Lucid Loabster said... The way I am is to not really belief in anything, just analyzing the possibilities. However it feels like from fright of just ending, we have created some after death things...

Most people who believe in something after death do not believe that animals live after death... But aniamls are just like us. We work the same way except humans have more evolved parts of their brain. If animals don't live after death then, humans don't either...

SOMETHING YOU SHOULD TAKE IN CONSIDARATION:

Stop worrying about whatever will happen after you die. Worry about your life. Try making it the best you can. Faster than you want, you will discover what happens after death and you might regret wasting all your life to discover it. Step by step. Now, its time to live, not die. LIVE

I do believe everything moves on in some way.

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Most people who believe in something after death do not believe that animals live after death... But aniamls are just like us. We work the same way except humans have more evolved parts of their brain. If animals don't live after death then, humans don't either...

That's a darned good point. If humans survive after death then what's the deal with animals? Why can't they make it too? Especially if they're smart animals like that hamster on a piano.

eating popcorn.

If no religion or higher power exists then logically it seems that if one life form can survive then another should also unless some physical law prohibits that from happening.

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Most people who believe in something after death do not believe that animals live after death... But aniamls are just like us. We work the same way except humans have more evolved parts of their brain. If animals don't live after death then, humans don't either...

Which shows that most of those who believe that are also arrogant and ignorant enough to believe that humans are superior and more worthy than animals, and think that animals can't feel or think anything. Which is just not true.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Which shows that most of those who believe that are also arrogant and ignorant enough to believe that humans are superior and more worthy than animals, and think that animals can't feel or think anything. Which is just not true.

Very true, I've always felt people gave animals a bad rap, I mean some are deft missing a few screws but if some of these animals had VOCAL cords, we would be having some interesting conversations.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Very true, I've always felt people gave animals a bad rap, I mean some are deft missing a few screws but if some of these animals had VOCAL cords, we would be having some interesting conversations.

When I was little, I thought that when I grew up I would try to find a way to put vocal cords in animals and teach them how to talk and read.

They do are able to talk, just not the same way as we do. I think that the fact they don't have disposable tumbs has really slowed down their evolution. When you think about it, its our diposable tumbs that made us what we are but if we didn't have them we would be exactly like animals

Some of those Dolphins are probably smarter than some of us. Especially Flipper. They probably even dream.

Originally Posted by Lucid Lobster

Some of those Dolphins are probably smarter than some of us. Especially Flipper. They probably even dream.

Probably. I heard they do dream... but LD? maybe. Sad they can't prove it...

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Probably. I heard they do dream... but LD? maybe. Sad they can't prove it...

I seriously doubt they can LD. LDing is so highly advanced for a thinking, rational brain that even most humans struggle to do it. Realizing that you're only in a dream is probably one of the biggest, highest functioning mental feats there is. We've only just discovered that dolphins have enough self-realization to recognize themselves in a mirror.

But animals are closer to nature than us so they might also be closer to their minds....?

the closer you are to nature, the more you rely on your subconscious to tell you what to do

if you rely on your subconscious you won't realize a dream is a dream

to realize a dream is a dream, you have to have a mind that questions the very nature of reality. there is no evidence that other animals can do this

I am watching the first video, and it's weird because I live in virginia beach and he talks about it a lot...

Getting ready to type this post seems redundant, since everyone is saying a variation of the same thing. I was raised believing in a Catholic God, and somewhere along the line the glass became half full. That line may have been the internet. With such an array of information placed before me, I had no choice but to question my beliefs. Not to mention, atheists are very intelligent and logical individuals, I got swayed easily by the notion that God (a catholic one at least) really seemed silly when you stepped outside of the idea. Dont you think that a God who created us would be fascinated at all of the different ideas that we have. Fascinated by all of our beliefs instead of pissed that we didnt live the way he wanted us to so he's going to torture our souls for all eternity. Meanwhile, there's no one witnessing these souls being tortured and therefore no possible chance for change. Torturing a soul for all eternity certainly wouldnt benefit anyone, and I dont believe that a divine creator would be so egotistical.

I would have used to say that I was an atheist not too far back in my life, but there was just something when I looked out onto the horizon. I knew that wasnt how I really felt. I just feel connected. I am everything. Everything is me. I am God. My mind is God.

Whatever the case, God cant blame anyone for believing what they believe since he clearly left it up to them, and he certainly shouldnt damn them for it. After all, we didnt ask for this life that we have, anyone whoever went to hell Im sure would wish they were never born. It's awfully selfish if you ask me.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

I seriously doubt they can LD. LDing is so highly advanced for a thinking, rational brain that even most humans struggle to do it. Realizing that you're only in a dream is probably one of the biggest, highest functioning mental feats there is. We've only just discovered that dolphins have enough self-realization to recognize themselves in a mirror.

Just because we just discovered it doesn't mean they haven't been doing it for....

We limit their potential by what we are aware of.

Originally Posted by RunflaCruiser

Yes. Its called faith. Its a big word which is shared by billions of people.

The word "Faith" may be shared by billions of people, but I would be willing to bet a LOT of money, that not one of those billions "Faith" is exactly the same. I constantly meet christians who pick and choose the bits of christianity and the bible that they like. For example, i've heard both of these statements from christians: "Oh i like the be nice to your neighbour, but the anti-gay bit isn't for me" or "I agree with the anti-gay bit it's gods word, but the idea that women are inferior to men, I dont really agree with that"
Both have Faith, both call themselves Christians, Both are at odds with each other and actually completely different in thier beliefs. Who's faith is more genuine or more right?


Also is a Hindus faith less valid than a Christians?
Or is a Budhists faith any less valid than a Jehova Witness?
See, I have a problem with "Faith" because it's just a way of saying "I'm convinced even though I don't have any evidence"
Which to me is like saying "I'm right everyone else is wrong... but if i call it faith then it's not arrogance, it's spiritual"

Plus... there is this idea too:

If there is a God, any God, not just the christian one...
Then, is he/she going to be more pissed off at you choosing the wrong religion, or deciding that there isn't enough evidence and being an atheist?

Which is the same thing as saying... if you had a girlfriend who went away for a year, and you decided to stay together... but lost contact and had no idea if the other was alive... would you be more pissed off with her for sleeping with another guy, or staying single?

So by choosing a religion, you're actually massively raising your chances of pissing off god (if there is such a thing) because... well there are a lot of different religions, all of which have "faith" that they are the "one true religion"... what if yours is the wrong one?

Choosing to be an atheist or an agnostic, is a much more sensible option...
Personally I see little difference between most religions... I think they are all equally off the mark with observable reality. I'd rather choose non and experience life and the universe directly, without having to pass it through a religious filter.

Everyone please keep in mind this is not R/S.

Also, try to not not throw mindless insults such as "ridiculous" or "blind", it only degenerates discussion.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

The word "Faith" may be shared by billions of people, but I would be willing to bet a LOT of money, that not one of those billions "Faith" is exactly the same. I constantly meet christians who pick and choose the bits of christianity and the bible that they like. For example, i've heard both of these statements from christians: "Oh i like the be nice to your neighbour, but the anti-gay bit isn't for me" or "I agree with the anti-gay bit it's gods word, but the idea that women are inferior to men, I dont really agree with that"
Both have Faith, both call themselves Christians, Both are at odds with each other and actually completely different in thier beliefs. Who's faith is more genuine or more right?


Also is a Hindus faith less valid than a Christians?
Or is a Budhists faith any less valid than a Jehova Witness?
See, I have a problem with "Faith" because it's just a way of saying "I'm convinced even though I don't have any evidence"
Which to me is like saying "I'm right everyone else is wrong... but if i call it faith then it's not arrogance, it's spiritual"

Plus... there is this idea too:

If there is a God, any God, not just the christian one...
Then, is he/she going to be more pissed off at you choosing the wrong religion, or deciding that there isn't enough evidence and being an atheist?

Which is the same thing as saying... if you had a girlfriend who went away for a year, and you decided to stay together... but lost contact and had no idea if the other was alive... would you be more pissed off with her for sleeping with another guy, or staying single?

So by choosing a religion, you're actually massively raising your chances of pissing off god (if there is such a thing) because... well there are a lot of different religions, all of which have "faith" that they are the "one true religion"... what if yours is the wrong one?

Choosing to be an atheist or an agnostic, is a much more sensible option...
Personally I see little difference between most religions... I think they are all equally off the mark with observable reality. I'd rather choose non and experience life and the universe directly, without having to pass it through a religious filter.

I believe that whatever is out their wouldn't care what "religion" you pick.. After all, religion is founded by corrupt men.

Christianity has way to many contradicting statements and un-moral attitude contained within the Bible for my taste.

Let's say you experience something, like seeing a ghost or ufo. As a logical person do you then question reality or your own sanity? If you go with the former, won't everyone think you're the latter? And wouldn't you be stupid for expecting otherwise? So some people have 'experiences' and others believe in the experiences of ancient people, and somehow they're different. In conclusion, don't take people's belief as an affront to the natural world and the assumption that you know it well. Indulge the possibility with your imagination and open up your mind.