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    Thread: What [neuro-chemically] causes lucid dream waking?

    1. #1
      Member Matchbook's Avatar
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      What [neuro-chemically] causes lucid dream waking?

      I am wanting to know which neurochemical processes are directly responsible for crossing the threshold from lucid dream consciousness to awakened consciousness.

      I know that in the event of a lucid dream there is an elevated amount of acetylcholine and norepinephrine which contribute to consciousness and alertness. However, if they are partially (or mainly) responsible for it, is there a threshold of elevation of one or both of these neurotransmitters that pushes one into the fully waking state?
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      If one is able to understand this better on the neurochemical level, I postulate that one could manage their neurochemical levels through the daytime and lucid state by way of entrainment. By entrainment I mean to isolate the particular thought activities and physiological reactions that correspond to the rise or decline of the pertinent neurotransmitters, and to learn to manage those thought activities and reactions during the day and in subsequent lucid dreams. Of course supplementation is relevant here as well. With successful development in this entrainment, lucid dreams could be significantly prolonged by managing psychic reactions that lead to waking or dream turbulence.

      If anyone can give a knowledgeable response to the neurochemical activities responsible for breaking the lucid/waking threshold, I would appreciate it.
      Never stop searching for truth. In your search you may think you have found it, and perhaps you have, but if you hold on tightly to a single thread it will fray and it's greater meaning will become lost. There is always more truth stretching deep beneath the surface that promises to reveal ever greater the infinite, interwoven fabric of truth, woven in the looms of Heaven.

      --Raised by Seeker--

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      Member Robot_Butler's Avatar
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      Have you read Thomas Yuschak's book, Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements? It might get you started.

    3. #3
      Member Matchbook's Avatar
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      Yes, I have. Thank you for the idea, though. It is a helpful book in many ways, but I didn't find the answer to this specific question. The book only covered the role of neurotransmitters in sleep, dreaming, and lucid dreaming, but didn't specifically cover the neurochemical role in the cessation of lucid dreams.
      Never stop searching for truth. In your search you may think you have found it, and perhaps you have, but if you hold on tightly to a single thread it will fray and it's greater meaning will become lost. There is always more truth stretching deep beneath the surface that promises to reveal ever greater the infinite, interwoven fabric of truth, woven in the looms of Heaven.

      --Raised by Seeker--

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      Member Matchbook's Avatar
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      Are there are neuro-pros on this forum that may have the answer to this sort of question?
      Never stop searching for truth. In your search you may think you have found it, and perhaps you have, but if you hold on tightly to a single thread it will fray and it's greater meaning will become lost. There is always more truth stretching deep beneath the surface that promises to reveal ever greater the infinite, interwoven fabric of truth, woven in the looms of Heaven.

      --Raised by Seeker--

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      Member nina's Avatar
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      Dreaming and the Prefrontal Cortex

      ^You might find this thread helpful, if you can figure out how to put the pieces together between activation of the DLPFC and the neurotransmitters you already mentioned.
      Matchbook likes this.

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      Member Matchbook's Avatar
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      Thank you, Aquanina. I shall peruse it forthwith!


      [post-perusal edit: the information in that thread may prove helpful, but may also prove a little difficult in terms of finding information that gives particulars regarding the activity of neurotransmitters in lucid dream wakings as pertaining to the DLPFC. I won't give up, though, because I have an intuition that this information may play a critical role in discovering and refining avenues to attaining and maintaining lucidity. As I said before, if one knows the specific shift of neurotransmission that occurs in the cessation of a lucid dream, one can also practice exercises during the day to stabilize those specific neurotransmissions. For instance, it is very possible through cognitive techniques to consciously raise or lower your dopamine levels.

      My theory is that whatever areas of cognitive control we lack in the daytime will also be present in some manner in our dreaming. For some people, it leads to difficulty attaining lucidity, but an ability to maintain lucidity well once they have it. For others, they may become lucid often but find they lose it very quickly. That is why I believe that discovering the most crucial neurotransmissions responsible for waking us out of lucidity, and developing techniques around their activity in daily techniques will prove invaluable. Honestly, the same can be said for attaining lucidity.]
      Last edited by Matchbook; 10-24-2010 at 10:15 PM.
      Never stop searching for truth. In your search you may think you have found it, and perhaps you have, but if you hold on tightly to a single thread it will fray and it's greater meaning will become lost. There is always more truth stretching deep beneath the surface that promises to reveal ever greater the infinite, interwoven fabric of truth, woven in the looms of Heaven.

      --Raised by Seeker--

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