Master of Dream Control Via Proxy

[AnotherDreamer]

I had this idea last night about creating a being in dreamland that has ultimate god power over dreams, can do absolutely anything, but they work for us. I suppose that this being could be kind of like a Genie or the architect of the matrix. I thought this might be a good idea because this lessens the responsibility of needing to believe in oneself to have such power. So things like self-doubt or being unsure of your abilities would no longer be as significant. We just have to believe that the dream master has the power to do absolutely anything, and then we can ask them for whatever we want. I think it's also kind of similar to a dream guide, but I'm pretty sure it's not exactly the same. Does anybody else think this idea is as cool as I do? Has anybody tried this before? Is there a name for it?

[Leo96]

Sounds like an awesome idea! I'll try it when i get more experience in controlling my dreams as a whole, but then again... i guess it's better to work through the self-doubt and whatnot, but sounds like a pretty nice temporary solution.

[StephL]

Hm - not sure. But then - I am a beginner and might not have the experience yet to grasp, why this would be a good idea. Intuitively I would rather be that dream-god myself and work on being good at that. It felt great for example to let it snow - I don´t know if it had felt like that, if I had asked some other being for the snow to fall.. But I thought dream-guides would be not a good idea also - not really understanding it. So now - I might want to spawn one - externalizing some aspects of dream-control like this. I read about somebody´s "dream-guy" being extremely helpful. An installation to remind me it is a dream, and of my plans - and just somebody with whom to talk with myself would be nice maybe after all.. If you want to do this, though, anotherdreamer - good luck with it!

[AnotherDreamer]

Yea I completely agree with you two, it's definitely better to be able to be the dream-god yourself rather than putting it off on some seemingly external entity as a temporary solution. I think I thought of this because of struggling with the bonus task of the month. I think that the Christmas ghosts are a pseudo example of this idea. When I dreamt of the Christmas past ghost, she helped me do something so easily that I have never done despite trying many times - Walk through a wall portal to another place. And I thought that was a really cool step for my first time experimenting with the idea. I love dream guides, I have gained incredible insight into myself and the nature of my perceived reality through talking to them. I think it's really cool because you can ask them ANYTHING and they usually give a very interesting answer (it's interesting to me at least).

[StephL]

I just saw a post from CanisLucidus page 2 of the TOTM thread - and also a link to the DJ entry - check it out maybe - seems to be on topic to me!

[AnotherDreamer]

Yeah that's a pretty cool DJ entry. What I am thinking now, is that anybody could create a character with master power (I named mine Mr. God). This dream master can serve as a first step in becoming the master yourself. Here's how I plan on trying this. 1.)Create Mr. God (done) 2.)Use Mr. God to do whatever I want in dreams without limits or fear of it not working 3.)Transform into Mr. God myself 4.)Mastery Might seem a little bit simplistic, but I believe it will work. Because I am creating a NEW identity for myself to fill before I decide that I want to become this new identity, because my old identity is riddled with self-conscious and self-doubt tendencies. Mr. God does not have these problems because Mr. God is already perfect in every way in the dream world. edit: I think the ultimate goal would be to merge the Mr. God identity with my current identity, but I'm not sure that's necessary yet edit2: I just realized this topic is in the wrong place

[Mylynes]

A dream guide like that could be useful to you, though it would only be able to do things which you yourself could do, even if you do not believe yourself capable of doing certain things. In other words, it would still be limited by the same dream limitations (http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-cont...mitations.html) which all humans must deal with or possibly find some way around.. You may be god-like, but certain things will remain beyond your grasp whether it is you or an "almost all-powerful" dream guide. Things like: 1. Having supreme knowledge about everything. You may be able to delude yourself into thinking that you know every thing but it is possible to actually know everything? 2. Focusing on an infinite number of things at the same time. You can focus on many things at the same time but it seems that EVENTUALLY at some point you will reach a limit to how many things you can keep your focus on simultaneously. Being all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent, ect. A person may delude themselves into thinking it is happening, but I doubt they can actually make them happen. Anyways, yes, if you are having difficulties with dream control, a guide may be able to help some.

[Maxis]

1. Having supreme knowledge about everything. You may be able to delude yourself into thinking that you know every thing but it is possible to actually know everything? By knowing everything, are you excluding it to the dream itself? I think it's possible to know everything about the dream and the world you're in, but you have a point if you mean 'absolutely everything,' dream or reality. I think this would definitely be helpful to some, especially ones who struggle with dream control, although I agree it takes the feeling away of being all-powerful and doing everything yourself, which can certainly feel amazing in a lucid dream.

[Mylynes]

By knowing everything, are you excluding it to the dream itself? I think it's possible to know everything about the dream and the world you're in, but you have a point if you mean 'absolutely everything,' dream or reality. I think this would definitely be helpful to some, especially ones who struggle with dream control, although I agree it takes the feeling away of being all-powerful and doing everything yourself, which can certainly feel amazing in a lucid dream. inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known. total omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known Inherent may be difficult but possible. Total, likely not possible.

[AnotherDreamer]

A dream guide like that could be useful to you, though it would only be able to do things which you yourself could do, even if you do not believe yourself capable of doing certain things. In other words, it would still be limited by the same dream limitations (http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-cont...mitations.html) which all humans must deal with or possibly find some way around.. You may be god-like, but certain things will remain beyond your grasp whether it is you or an "almost all-powerful" dream guide. Things like: 1. Having supreme knowledge about everything. You may be able to delude yourself into thinking that you know every thing but it is possible to actually know everything? 2. Focusing on an infinite number of things at the same time. You can focus on many things at the same time but it seems that EVENTUALLY at some point you will reach a limit to how many things you can keep your focus on simultaneously. Being all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent, ect. A person may delude themselves into thinking it is happening, but I doubt they can actually make them happen. Anyways, yes, if you are having difficulties with dream control, a guide may be able to help some. 1)Ah, yes, this is seemingly true, unless we can never truly know anything, then perhaps I could realize inherent omniscience. I'm glad you pointed this out though. 2)I personally disagree with this, I believe that we can experience everything at once if we see everything as being a singularity. But focusing on all the micro details, yea I would agree that might be a little challenging Very interesting thoughts, and I agree Maxis that this could be very useful to people that struggle with dream control. And I also think that it can still allow for the feeling of being all-powerful when one reaches the state of merging their identity with the all-powerful DC identity. I see it as simply claiming the power that we all already have in the dream world, by whatever method works! ^^ I have already been able to do some crazy things that I have never done before by using DCs to do it for me. Good experiences so far!

[Mylynes]

2)I personally disagree with this, I believe that we can experience everything at once if we see everything as being a singularity. But focusing on all the micro details, yea I would agree that might be a little challenging Experiencing "everything" by lumping it all together is fairly easy. What I am trying to say is that your level of focus will always have some limit. Try creating a chess board then begin playing chess against yourself. Should be pretty easy, but then add another board, and another, and another. Keep adding 1 more board Infinitely and eventually your focus will break down, you won't be able to maintain the locations of all the pieces on all of the boards. You may make it to 5 boards before this happens, or 100, or 10 million, but eventually you will reach that breakdown point. I used this example because this is one of my favorite exercises to hone my dream focus.

[AnotherDreamer]

That's a great exercise, I've been trying to do that with just one board since I was in middle school and I struggle with just that. I was just meditating on doing it now, and I could only play on 4 at a time before I started to lose track of where pieces were and my focus broke down. I'm curious, how many boards can you keep your focus on at once before they start to break down. And I assume that you are implying you are playing on all the boards as well, yes? I know it is a little off-topic, but do you think that practicing this a lot could help me to get better at stabilizing and forming dreams?