demons and light

[sea00115699]

I dreamed that I was fighting demonic possession. It kept feeling like my body was being dragged around by demons all over the place. I dreamed I was being told a bunch of things by a disembodied voice. It was like saying why did I ask for revenge, and I asked him to undo it. I was mad at some ex friends and fighting with them in a dream, and it asked, do you wish to kill your own friends? Which makes sense because it says if you are mad at someone you’re guilty of killing them. I didn’t realized I would be judged for even what I did in my sleep. As the demons got closer it got darker and darker, and they kept trying to rip me to shreds. I kept calling out to be filled with the holy spirit and for them to be cast out in Jesus name. I think their name was envy. They said they would see me on the other side. I asked why we had to be with him and then the voice said you can leave if you want to. i then said he was creepy. then the voice said you’re afraid of me. When I called upon the holy spirit a light appeared in the darkness and the demons screamed and went away. But no matter how many times I cried for them to be gone or to be filled with the holy spirit, they kept coming back. I said why can’t I get them out of me. I felt my body rocking back and forth and repeatedly falling out of bed in the dream, even though I stayed in bed. It started with being attacked by an attack dog and trying to fight it off with a mattress. And then I started calling upon Jesus and that is when it started. I then saw a ghost like figure with red eyes and a crown enter into me. I told it to go away, but it stayed. I don’t know why I kept calling for Jesus to help me in my sleep. The demons were just trying to kill me. There was then something like I shouldn’t wander out of my body, and I saw my face with my eyes open from outside my body. A voice said that I think I am just a body, but that I have a soul too. Everything in the dream was really clear, colorful, and vivid at the time. I was also asked if I really wanted everyone to go to hell. At first I said yes, and then I saw a wave filled with human skeletons and I said no no. I don’t want anyone to go to hell. I kept asking if I was going to hell or heaven, but there was no response from the invisible voice. The demons said I would be there with them in the afterlife. There was also a comment about whether people come to heaven is simple. Would they forgive what they have done if they had been the recipient of their own actions. It said that I summoned them during the time when I thought horrible things. I said I want to be God’s slave. Just show me how. I got no response. I was being toyed with by a demon and picked up upside down inside of a dentist’s office. Maybe it was because my notion of good and evil was flipping upside down. I was afraid of going to hell, because I might end up there as well. After the other dream it pointed out to me that demons are evil and Jesus is the light in the dream.

[shadowofwind]

It seems to me that what we think and do flows from who we are. And what we do and think influences who we are. So it matters what you do in your dreams, because it is in your mind, and its the same mind you have when you're awake. But I think that it is you who is judging you. The gods and demons in your dreams are your thoughts about God and demons. People like to put words in God's mouth. To me its idolatry, they replace God with an idea about God that's not very God-like at all. I figure that God ought to be at least as just and merciful as I am. I would not condemn someone for an eternity based on a few decades of obstinance or mistakes, or being born into the wrong culture. What kind of god would do that? Of course actions have consequences. But if someone wants to change and become better, God should be there to help that person. Jonah is one of my favorite stories in the Bible, because to me it is a true story, as a metaphor, God really is like that. I think the demons are right that they will be with you after death, as they are in life. This is why you can't completely banish them with your thought of Jesus, they have a little bit of the truth on their side. They will be with you because they are a part of you. But Jesus will be with you after death too, you don't have to worry about damnation. What kind of hell would a just and loving God make? It would be a hell that includes some kind of path to redemption. Not too different from a human life maybe. I don't think any of us will go to heaven, not right away. How can it be heaven if you have demons in you? Redemption, in my opinion, is not a simple matter of symbolically partaking of sacraments, saying a few words, and wanting to change. If you still have demons in you, and we all do, then you're not redeemed yet. 1 John 3:9 says that a man born of God can't sin. I agree with that. So if you still sin, you're not born of God yet, your path isn't done yet. People want to pretend that they're done, but they're not. Just look around, or look inside. The rule in your dream about going to heaven seems right to me. But there's another side of this: if you're sincere enough to actually forgive that way, you won't want to wrong people either. If you're like me, and you want to hurt people, and you don't always forgive people who hurt you, then you're not done yet. I don't believe in individual reincarnation, it doesn't make sense to me, I'm just saying that my soul is not clean yet, one way or another it needs a lot more cleaning. And the process of cleaning seems to me to be what hell is, and what life is, whether here or in another world afterwards. I hope some of that helps somehow. I think that if you keep trusting Jesus, and don't believe what anyone tells you, myself included, if it doesn't agree with what you find with Jesus in your heart, then all of this will be cleared up for you. It just takes time.

[sea00115699]

Thanks that made me feel better

[Signet]

I would not condemn someone for an eternity based on a few decades of obstinance or mistakes, or being born into the wrong culture. What kind of god would do that? [...] But Jesus will be with you after death too, you don't have to worry about damnation. What kind of hell would a just and loving God make? It would be a hell that includes some kind of path to redemption. Not too different from a human life maybe. So, do you tell people that you're a Universalist, or did you just stumble upon that heresy all by yourself? the process of cleaning seems to me to be what hell is, and what life is, whether here or in another world afterwards. See also: Erasing Hell: What God said about eternity, and the things we made up. I think that if you keep trusting Jesus [Proverbs 3:5-6], and don't believe what anyone tells you [1 John 2:27], myself included, if it doesn't agree with what you find with Jesus in your heart [Walt Disney], then all of this will be cleared up for you. It just takes time. Dude, somehow I think that the Bible will be a little bit more helpful than the conscience of a man who gets confused by demons trying to possess him in his dreams. Edit: Looking back on my reply... I don't mean to be so harsh. I'm not angry at you, I'm more amused than upset, really. Please don't hold it against my immature and quick-tongued self. To you, Sea, I repeat the sentiment "let no man teach you", as stated above (and the verse to go with it). If I can offer my fallible advise, however, I would urge you to pray and to read the Bible. (It's got more in it about hell and demons than one might think.) Then pray again that the Lord might make it clear what the Hell is going on. (word play intended) One last thing -- and you by no means have to give ANY credence to this comment -- is something that a demon possessing a friend of mine said about the dream-lands: "That is our place. That is the land we [live] in." Just a thought.

[shadowofwind]

If I were to say that I'm a Universalist, most people would take that to mean that I believe that all religious traditions are substantially true and eventually lead to the same goal. But those are definitely not views that I share. Maybe I'm Universalist in the sense that I'm not arrogant enough to call my best understanding 'Truth' while branding competing or unfamiliar ideas as heresies. Its true that my conscience and religious intuition isn't entirely trustworthy. But the religious intuitions of others are untrustworthy for exactly the same reason, even when they've called theirs canon and spent a few hundred years burning other contextual evidence and killing those who disagree with them. You trust the Bible, but it is your intuition, or your reason, or upbringing, or fear, or ignorance, God's voice in your heart that tells you to trust it. In that regard it comes down to the same thing: you are making your own choice or following fate or something inside yourself, just like I do. I would be sinning against God, as I know God whom speaks to me through the Bible, if I chose to put the Bible ahead of conscience. Yet somehow other people who have never met me, and who have almost no awareness of who I am, what I understand, or what I need, presume to know what the right choice is for me. And they think this is humility, because they have called the authority that they made God's word, and they don't regard that as blasphemy. To add to the irony, I seem to take many if not most Biblical commandments a lot more seriously than most of them do, for instance the injunction against usury. Its not a matter of yielding to temptation in a week moment, in all but the most extreme examples they don't even perceive it as a sin. Yet they're the ones who claim to believe in the Bible, while I'm in danger of being led astray by not believing in it. I actually don't know whether letting other living and dead men make intimate choices about your faith is right or wrong for you. And despite the pejorative way I put that, there is something to be said for it, despite the downsides. Quite plausibly it is the right thing for you, and maybe its the right thing for the original poster also. What I intended was to highlight that in the end it is they who make that decision, because I think there can be some value in becoming more aware of that. I agree that your advice was sensible and worth offering also. I do know a little bit about demons, maybe a lot about demons, depending on your perspective. I agree with your anecdote from your friend's dream. I don't have anything more to say about this though, argument or attempting to share or learn anything seems pretty much hopeless when our standard of judgment is as different as it is.

[Signet]

Oh, wait. I'm sorry, I should have said Christian Universalism. I don't usually refer to total religious Universalism, so I forgot to make it specific. Here's what I meant, as per Wikipedia: Christian Universalism

[JoannaB]

The hope for universal salvation has become more widespread including theologians and priests from denominations that used to not historically embrace it. In my own denomination, Episcopalianism, while it is not necessarily the teaching of our church but it is a belief or hope many or at least some Episcopalians are moving toward. When I asked my priest whether my hope for universal salvation made me heretical according to the Episcopal Church, he pointed me to the crucifixion passage in the bible where Jesus said "Forgive them father, for they do not know what they are doing." If those who crucified him may be forgiven, and Jesus himself advocated such forgiveness, then surely there is hope that everyone may be saved at the end.