WILD-1 Syllabus

[Naiya]

WILD Syllabus About The Class In general, when we meet, the chats will be lecture-based. There is a lot of material to cover, so I would appreciate it if side discussions would be kept until the end of class. If you have a question for me, say "QUESTION!" in all caps, and when I finish my thought I'll get to your question. You may want to type your question into notepad or something so you can C&P it into chat when I get to you. I hope this will keep us fairly organized and on track. Class Thread (You Are Here): Any questions, concerns and comments about the course should go here. Introductions/Chat Thread: This is the thread to introduce yourselves, talk amongst each other and have any non-dream related discussion. Student Workbooks: You will create your own workbook thread in the STUDENT WORKBOOKS subforum. You will be posting all of your WILD attempts and any assignments in your thread. Students are encouraged to comment in each other's workbooks. UPDATE: Please put the course # in the title of your workbook. Since more than one class is going on, it'll be easier to know who your classmates are this way. Thanks! Please introduce yourselves in the Chat thread! There are a few questions in the first post to get you started, but don't feel limited by only those--feel free to tell us anything else about yourself. Please have them posted by Saturday. Professor: Naiya IRC Classes: Yes Dates: July 25 - Aug 6 GMT*: -7 SUN July 25 7-8 PM TUES July 27 7-8 PM THURS July 29 7-8 PM PST Lecture Attendance: Optional This is heavily based on Seeker's Five Phases of WILD. http://www.dreamviews.com/f85/wild-1...ead.php?t=9806 Introduction -Define WILD -Pros & cons of WILD Assignment: Each student must start a mandatory workbook and post every single WILD attempt they make. Each attempt will include: -The date of their WILD attempt and the approximate time -Whether they set an alarm to wake up, woke naturally, or attempted during a nap. -A detailed description of their WILD attempt Science of Sleep -Introduce the idea of sleep cycles and their affect on length of dreams -Brief overview of the sleep stages -Explanation of HH and SP -Bring together by explaining why WILD is typically attempted in later sleep cycles Spoiler for Science of Sleep Info: Sleep is a reversible behavioral state of perceptual disengagement from the environment and unresponsiveness to the environment, with total or partial unconsciousness. Dreams are A collection of thoughts, emotions, and false sensory stimuli which occur in the mind during sleep. Most normal dreams last 5-20 minutes. Sleep Stages: N1 (alpha waves turn to theta waves), hypnic jerks 2-5% of sleep N2 (sleep spindles, k complexes) 45-55% of sleep N3 (delta) aka SWS sleep, formerly stages 3 and 4. SWS Dominates the first third of the night, but only 13-23% total. Your muscles are not paralyzed in NREM sleep and NREM takes up a total of 75-80% of your sleep. Dreaming in NREM is rare. REM 20-25% of sleep, usually 4-6 episodes, short at the beginning of the night, get longer as the night goes on. There are no brainwave patterns which dominate REM sleep. REM is characterized by atonia--loss of muscle tone, in other words paralysis, not to be confused with an episode of sleep paralysis. One sleep cycle including all stages is about 90 minutes. It usually happens in the order of N1, N2, N3, N2, and REM. Hallucination is a false perception characterized by a distortion of real sensory stimuli. Hypnogagic hallucinations occur as we fall asleep. Hypnopompic hallucinations occur as we're waking up. HH can be any false sensation--most commonly sights and sounds, but also touches, tastes, and smells. Sleep paralysis is an episode in which a person is usually transitioning from wake to sleep or sleep to wake and they find that they cannot move. SP is commonly characterized by hallucinations, vibrations, loud ringing or roaring noises in the ears, pressure on the chest or choking sensations, and often fear if impending doom or terror if the person is has no prior knowledge or experience of SP. Physiologically speaking SP is caused by atonia of the voluntary muscles due to the REM cycle. It is still unknown exactly how the body triggers this and has been the subject of much study. So basically, an episode of SP occurs because you are either entering or exiting REM sleep and you have become conscious during this transition. Google Scholar Assignment: Students will analyze their own sleep schedules and sleep habits. From this they will decide on the best days and times they should make their WILD attempts. The Five Phases of WILD Phase 1: Preparation -Setting alarms if necessary, have white noise, earbuds, mask ready -Keeping the environment quiet and conducive for WILDing -Set aside enough time to complete the WILD attempt (30-60 minutes) -Make sure that you will not be too groggy when you wake Assignment: Students will post a detailed plan of all the preparations they will make before each WILD attempt in their workbooks. Phase 2: Awakening -Bathroom break highly encouraged -Explain what WBTB is in detail -Ways of becoming more alert if too groggy -Ways of becoming more relaxed if too awake -Emphasis on balance and personal experimentation Assignment: Students will experiment with at least three different WBTBs, noting in their workbooks the length of time staying awake and different techniques to become alert or relaxed. After each attempt they will discuss which things may or may not have been helpful and why. Phase 3: Relaxation -Review a few relaxation techniques -Becoming aware of HH as it begins Assignment: Students will practice at least three different relaxation techniques during their WILD attempts which they will detail in their workbooks. After each attempt they will discuss which things may or may not have been helpful and why. Phase 4: Transition -Balancing relaxation with awareness -Using HH to transition -Using visualization to transition -Using mantras to transition -Transitioning from SP Assignment: Students will describe in detail any experiences they have had with HH and SP in the past, noting any recurring themes or experiences. During their WILD attempts they will practice being consciously aware of HH and SP without jolting themselves awake. Phase 5: Stabilization -Keeping calm -Being aware of FAs -Dealing with blackness or murky vision -General dream stabilization technique Assignment: Students who have successfully transitioned to a WILD (preferably during the course of the class, but past experiences are valuable as well) will describe in detail how they transitioned into the dream. They will make mention of any techniques which they could use in future attempts that would help the stabilize the dream. If you have never had a successful WILD by the end of the course, you may skip this assignment. Practice: Students will continue posting their WILD attempts for 7 days for extra practice, focusing on the techniques which they feel worked best for them so far. Further experimentation with other techniques is also encouraged, but it is advisable that they should stick to one routine to practice. __________________

[Naiya]

UPDATE: Please put the course # in the title of your workbook. Since more than one class is going on, it'll be easier to know who your classmates are this way. Thanks!

[Naiya]

Here's the first lecture. It defines WILD, goes over some of the pros & cons of WILD, and goes over sleep stages, HH, and SP. Spoiler for Lecture 1: Status#DVX#DVAX (no topic set) [18:52] == naiya [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [18:52] == mode/#DVA [+o naiya] by DreamBot [18:52] <@naiya> Hi [18:52] <BagO> Hey [18:53] <Mancon123> Hi [18:54] <@naiya> It's still early, so we'll give it about 5-10 more minutes [18:55] <Mancon123> Okay :O [18:57] <Mancon123> I already started a workbook lol I named it "Mancon's Amazing Workbook" [18:57] <@naiya> I saw xD [19:00] == Samael [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:00] <Samael> I kind of love the passwords here. [19:00] <@naiya> BTW...normally I stay at least an hour after each class to answer questions, but today I've got a paper to work on after this, so I'll be going right after the lecture's over. [19:00] <@naiya> hehe, hi samael [19:01] <Samael> Hey, Naiya. [19:01] <Samael> This should be fun. [19:01] <Mancon123> Okay that's fine Naiya. If I need anything i'll PM you [19:02] <Samael> I might have to leave early, though. [19:02] <@naiya> No prob--the chatlogs will always be posted [19:02] <@naiya> That's why the lectures are optional, people can come to them if they want to interact more, but if they can't make it they can read it afterwards. [19:03] <Samael> I think that's a really good system, since we're not all on the same schedule. [19:03] <Mancon123> Yeah I agree [19:03] <@naiya> Yeah, exactly...last time I did a class, only people in my time zone could be in it so it kinda sucked for some people. [19:04] == Alex [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:04] == mode/#DVA [+y Alex] by irc.dreamviews.com [19:04] == mode/#DVA [+o Alex] by DreamBot [19:04] <@naiya> xD [19:05] <@naiya> Good, now Alex can learn to WILD too [19:05] <Mancon123> XD alex [19:05] <!Alex> zup dawgs [19:05] <@naiya> OK, it's 7:05 so I'm gonna start [19:06] <!Alex> no cmon [19:06] <!Alex> whats up [19:06] <!Alex> there were like 10k inscriptions [19:06] <@naiya> inscriptions? :O [19:06] <!Alex> and 3 ppl r here? [19:06] <!Alex> what shiz it that [19:06] <@naiya> That's cause the chats are not mandatory this time [19:06] <!Alex> I mean like 10k ppl subscibing to the course [19:06] <!Alex> ? [19:06] <!Alex> wtf00k [19:06] <@naiya> That way people in other timezones can still take the class. [19:06] <!Alex> :S [19:07] == Serenity [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:07] == mode/#DVA [+o Serenity] by DreamBot [19:07] <@naiya> If it doesn't end up going well, I can always have them mandatory for my next courses. [19:07]*** Samael repeats: Serenity! [19:07] <@Serenity> hi my phone will probably die very soon... [19:08] <@naiya> Aww it's all right [19:08]*** Samael wills Serenity's phone to keep working. [19:08] <@naiya> xD [19:08] <Mancon123> xD [19:08] <@Serenity> [19:09] <@Serenity> idle while i change to normal ppl clothes. [19:09] <@naiya> OK, I'm gonna start off with the definition of a WILD. [19:09] <@Serenity> talk amongst yourselves XD [19:10] <@naiya> WILD stands for Wake Initiated Lucid Dream [19:10] <@naiya> What makes it a WILD is that, instead of falling asleep and having a break in your consciousness, you go directly from being awake to being in a lucid dream. [19:11] <@naiya> Some people consider WILD to be superior to DILD because of this. [19:11] <@naiya> There are a lot of things that make WILD much more appealing than DILD. [19:12] == quorthonafull [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:12] <@naiya> Hi [19:12] <quorthonafull> hi! [19:12] <@naiya> Go ahead, take a seat, ect ect. [19:12] <@naiya> We were just starting. [19:12] == Serenity [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [19:13] <Samael> My psychic powers seem to be lacking. [19:13] <@naiya> So anywho, a lot of times people are attracted to WILD because it seems like you can do it on the first try. [19:13] <@naiya> It IS possible to do it on the first try, but it's not very likely unless you've done it by accident before. [19:14] <@naiya> In general, I wouldn't advise anyone to try WILD if they have never had a lucid dream before. In my opinion, WILD is more difficult to learn than DILD. [19:14] <Samael> Hear, hear. [19:14] <@naiya> On the other hand, WILD is great because it can often feel much more vivid, real, and stable than DILD. [19:15] <@naiya> Also, it is much easier to remember and complete tasks when you do a WILD. [19:15] <quorthonafull> That's other thing that attracts people [19:15] <@naiya> Unlike DILD, if you do a WILD correctly, you don't need to pull your mind together. You should already be thinking very clearly. [19:16] <@naiya> IMO, both DILD and WILD have their pros and cons. [19:16] <@naiya> They are both great in their own ways. [19:16] <@naiya> However, the misconception seems to be that WILD can be learned more quickly than DILD. [19:16] <@naiya> In theory that's true--for example, learning to MILD almost always takes a long time before it even starts to work at all. [19:17] <@naiya> Whereas every single time you WILD there is a chance of succeeding. [19:17] <@naiya> (That's also true for DILD, it's just much harder in the beginning). [19:17] <@naiya> So to sum it up, if you're not sure if you had a WILD or DILD, ask yourself if you were conscious the entire time. [19:18] <@naiya> If you can remember everything from the moment you put your head on the pillow to the moment you woke up, it's a WILD. [19:18] <Samael> So you have to wake up right away again? [19:18] <@naiya> Sometimes, if you fail a WILD, it can still result in a lucid dream--that is, you'll fall asleep or black out for a bit, start dreaming, and realize you're dreaming at some point. [19:18] <@naiya> Samael: what do you mean? [19:19] <quorthonafull> If You fall asleep, You can have a DILD [19:19] <Samael> Well, if you fall asleep and directly into a lucid dream, is it still a WILD if you lose lucidity somewhere along the way? [19:19] == distilled [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:19] <Samael> Assuming the WILD was successful up until that point. [19:19] <@naiya> I shouldn't really say "fall asleep," because technically you are sleeping when you are in a WILD what counts is if you are conscious. [19:21] <@naiya> Samael: That's kind of a gray area. Technically it's a WILD, I would say, because there is no break in consciousness. [19:21] <@naiya> The general rule is, you never have to be lucid for the whole dream for it to be considered a lucid dream, [19:22] <@naiya> Here's a good example: [19:22] <@naiya> When you WILD, you might think it failed, and you'll get up out of bed. You'll be in a dream now, but you may or may not realize it. That depends on how aware you keep yourself. [19:22] <@naiya> If you RC when you get up, then yes it's a WILD. [19:23] <@naiya> If you don't RC and you go through the dream thinking it's real, then the WILD failed. [19:24] <@naiya> So yeah...the biggest difference between DILD & WILD is whether or not you have that period of unconsciousness between going to bed and getting lucid. [19:24] <@naiya> Any more questions before we move on to the next part? [19:25] <Mancon123> No [19:25] <@naiya> Ok, cool. [19:25] <Samael> Nope. [19:25] <quorthonafull> No. [19:25] <@naiya> So have any of you at least read a little bit about sleep cycles and how they help you WILD? [19:26] <Mancon123> Yeah I read a little in stephen laberge's book [19:26] <BagO> Yeah same here [19:26] <distilled> wikipedia FTW [19:26] <quorthonafull> I've read something [19:26] <@naiya> Mk, good [19:26] <@naiya> So I won't get too technical about the stages of sleep--I just want to talk about what is relevant [19:26] <Samael> I'll try to keep up. [19:26] <@naiya> [19:27] <@naiya> OK, so first of all, when we sleep, we go through a sleep cycle, which is made up of different sleep stages. [19:27] <@naiya> Each sleep cycle takes about 90 minutes to complete. When it is complete, we usually wake up to some extent. We don't usually remember waking up, though. [19:28] <@naiya> A lot of times people thrash around a bit in between their sleep cycles. [19:28] <@naiya> As the night goes on, we spend different amounts of time in the different sleep stages in each sleep cycle. [19:29] <@naiya> The sleep stages are divided up into two main categories: NREM and REM. [19:29] <@naiya> NREM always comes before REM. It is made up of stages N1, N2, and N3. [19:30] <@naiya> N1 is very short, maybe a few minutes--it's that kind of twilight period you have as you fall asleep. [19:31] <@naiya> N2 is a brings you into a deeper sleep. Finally, N3, also known as slow-wave sleep, takes you into the deepest sleep of the night. [19:31] <@naiya> In the first third of the night, N3 dominates. [19:31] <@naiya> In other words, early on in the night, you will spend most of your time in very deep sleep, which you don't normally dream. [19:32] <@naiya> there ARE dreams in NREM, but they are almost never the vivid, long nice ones we want for LDing [19:32] <@naiya> So as the night goes on, we get less and less of this deep sleep. We start getting more REM sleep with each new cycle. [19:32] <@naiya> REM sleep is known to be the stage in which we dream. [19:33] <@naiya> and BTW, REM stand for rapid eye movement, which is the main characteristic of REM sleep. [19:34] <@naiya> REM is an important concept for WILDers, because they need to time their WILD attempts so that they have optimum REM periods--in other words, a good chance of going right into REM and also being in REM for a long time. [19:34] <@naiya> I should note that in normal people, there is an atonia (paralysis) of the skeletal muscles. That way we don't act out our dreams [19:35] <@naiya> So all this stuff is why people often tell you to wake up after like 4-6 hours of sleep and THEN try your WILD. [19:36] <@naiya> (Unless you're attempting WILD in a nap) [19:37] <@naiya> Everybody is different, so you will all have to experiment with waking up at different times and trying different things for your WBTB to see what works. [19:37] <BagO> question [19:37] <@naiya> Because the other factor in WILDing is needing to be tired enough to go to sleep, but awake enough to stay conscious. It's a very difficult balance and it is VERY hard to figure out at first. [19:37] <@naiya> Bag0: yup? :0 [19:37] <Samael> So, REM sleep is tacked on at the end of every cycle, right? N1, N2, N3, REM? [19:38] <@naiya> Samael: yes, the order goes N1, N2, N3, N2, and REM and then you wake up. [19:38] <BagO> How does it work for naps?**Wouldn't having a nap during the day start you back out at nrem1? [19:38] <Samael> Great, thanks. [19:39] <@naiya> Bag0: that's a good question. It's a little complicated but I'll try. [19:39] <@naiya> When it's dark your body produces hormones that make you more sleepy. [19:40] <@naiya> When you nap during daylight hours, you're not only not quite ready for the full night of sleep, but you don't get those hormones. [19:40] <@naiya> So basically, you end up in a light sleep. [19:40] <Samael> I think it depends on the schedule you're sleeping by, too. [19:40] <@naiya> And when you are in a light sleep, you don't get the deep sleep stages--you get REM. [19:40] <Samael> If you work at night and sleep during the day... [19:40] <@naiya> Yeah it definitely depends on the schedule, too [19:40] <BagO> Oh ok, thanks [19:41] <Mancon123> NaiyaL So i'm attempting a WILD tonight. I have no idea when my REM cycle is. So you recommend experimenting from 4-6 hours after you go to bed? Would you recommend If I try to wake up after 6 hours of sleep and attempt a WILD? [19:41] <@naiya> Having a weird sleep schedule opens up a whole can of worms that I don't wanna attempt to get into today XD [19:42] <Samael> Fair enough. [19:42] <@naiya> Mancon123: yes, I recommend 4-6 hours. It's a good starting place [19:42] <Mancon123> Okay thanks [19:42] <@naiya> I usually WILD after like...8 hours of sleep. [19:42] <@naiya> So it can be later, but it's best to try it when you know you'll be tired enough to fall asleep. [19:43] == drdr [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:43] <drdr> hello [19:43] <drdr> sorry I'm late [19:43] <quorthonafull> Question [19:43] <Samael> drdr, give me the news. [19:43] <@naiya> hi [19:43] <Samael> Sorry, I was listening to the radio today. [19:43] <drdr> what news? [19:43] <@naiya> quor, yup? [19:44] <quorthonafull> I set my alarm for about 6 hours, but I wake up naturally 5 or 10 minutes before the alarm rings [19:44] <Samael> It's a song, drdr. [19:44] <drdr> oh! [19:44] <@naiya> Ohh, that's good! [19:44] <drdr> hahah yeah, [19:44] <drdr> i know that osng [19:44] <drdr> I got a bad case of lovin you? [19:44] <@naiya> If you wake up naturally, then WILD when you wake naturally. [19:44] <Samael> [19:45] <quorthonafull> Ok [19:45] <drdr> Question [19:45] <distilled> yeah but don't you usually wake up after REM? wouldn't that defeat the purpose of WILD? [19:46] <@naiya> drdr: yes? [19:46] <@naiya> You usually wake up after REM, yes. [19:46] <@naiya> That's why WILD is so hard--you are trying to bypass the other sleep stages. [19:47] <drdr> So, I can get into SP fairly easily [19:47] <drdr> at least I think it's SP - it's hard to move my limbs and my body feels "heavy" [19:47] <drdr> but I can never get anywhere from there [19:47] <@naiya> In the morning you don't spend much time in the NREM sleep anyway, and sometimes you go almost directly into REM. This is what we want to take advantage of. [19:47] <@naiya> drdr, sounds like it may be SP. [19:47] <drdr> How do I go from SP into a dream state? [19:48] <@naiya> I'm glas you asked cause that was going to be my next topic. xD [19:48] <@naiya> glad* [19:48] <drdr> Cool [19:48] <@naiya> First let's talk about HH and HI, though, since it's related to SP. [19:49] <@naiya> Hypnogagic hallucinations are hallucinations we get as we are falling asleep. [19:49] <@naiya> Sometimes it's hearing things, seeing things, smelling things, feeling things touching us ect. [19:49] <@naiya> HH normally comes before and overlaps with SP. [19:49] == shiraniaori [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:49] <@naiya> Also, HH tends to be the first signpost of the WILD. [19:50] <@naiya> Sometimes it can startle you and jolt you awake, so be careful. [19:50] <@naiya> Hi Shiran [19:50] <shiraniaori> Hey, sorry I'm late, didn't know I was supposed to put DVA before the passwordd, just figured that the room was crepes [19:51] <@naiya> No prob. [19:51] <Samael> We've all had password troubles, I think. [19:51] <shiraniaori> yeah, I've never used IRC before. [19:51] <shiraniaori> was never a fan of its style... [19:52] <@naiya> yeah it takes a little getting used to. I imagine the next class will be more full. [19:52] <quorthonafull> I never used IRC too [19:52] <drdr> Probably - this was a little sudden too [19:52] <drdr> I didn't know it was going on, that's why I was late [19:52] <@naiya> Aw D: sorry about that, guys. [19:53] <drdr> it's all good [19:53] <shiraniaori> I think the OP with all the classes said the one was on monday, and we'd be getting a pm sunday [19:53] <shiraniaori> so that might be why. [19:53] <@naiya> Hmm...DILD is mon-weds-fri [19:53] <@naiya> and WILD is sun-tues-thurs [19:53] <@naiya> I might've chopped off sunday in one of them <_< [19:54] <@naiya> Anyway, it's getting toward the end of the lecture, so I want to talk about SP before we finish [19:54] <shiraniaori> I might've misread it, idk. [19:54] == Alex [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [19:54] <@naiya> Sleep paralysis is an episode in which a person is usually transitioning from wake to sleep or sleep to wake and they find that they cannot move. SP is commonly characterized by hallucinations, vibrations, loud ringing or roaring noises in the ears, pressure on the chest or choking sensations, and often fear if impending doom or terror if the person is has no prior knowledge or experience of SP. [19:55] <@naiya> That's the official definition [19:55] <BagO> [19:55] <@naiya> How many here have had SP before? [19:55] <BagO> I have. [19:55] <@naiya> whether or not they knew what it was at the time or were intending to get it? [19:55] <drdr> I have, but not really with hallucinations [19:55] <Mancon123> Once. [19:56] <@naiya> Ok, that's good [19:56] <drdr> Everything's just dark. [19:56] <Mancon123> I hallucinated a room full of frogs actually [19:56] <@naiya> lol, wow [19:56] <drdr> Wow, [19:56] <drdr> I wish I could do that. [19:56] <@naiya> you heard them, or saw them...? [19:56] <Mancon123> but I never got into a dream lol [19:56] <shiraniaori> I've felt it coming up [19:56] <Samael> I've had HH, I think [19:56] <Samael> Falling asleep. [19:56] <Samael> And waking up. [19:56] <Mancon123> Naiya I saw them then they dissapeared and I heard them [19:56] <Samael> Don't know about SP, though. [19:56] <@naiya> BTW, I should mention that HH also happens as we wake up [19:57] <@naiya> Hmm [19:57] <shiraniaori> I had a weird experience with HH last morning... [19:57] <@naiya> In any case, like I said, normally you'll get HH, that will overlap into SP, and SP is always great because you know you're very close to WILDing when you hit it. [19:58] <@naiya> I'll get into more tips about how to use SP to your advantage and what to do in the other lectures. [19:58] <@naiya> But for now I'll tell you this--when you hit SP, it might be freaky and you might feel like you ought to try to move now. Be careful. [19:58] <Samael> And the difference between them, yeah? [19:58] <@naiya> When you hit SP, the best thing to do is relax MORE. [19:58] <@naiya> yup [19:58] <quorthonafull> I've a succesful WILD (only one, with sleep deprivation) and I felt nothing [19:59] <@naiya> That can happen. Sometimes I WILD and I never notice any SP or any hallucinations. [19:59] <@naiya> Sometimes I will be sitting there thinking that it might've failed, and then all of a sudden, I get blurry vision, and it's the dream [20:00] <Samael> Wait, SP is a state that you're in, and it may include HH? [20:00] <@naiya> Or I'll imagine myself standing next to the door, putting my hands on the wall, and after 20 seconds it will begin to materialze and be an actual dream. [20:00] <@naiya> SP is an episode where you feel paralyzed, and it usually includes HH [20:00] <BagO> Do you find that when you think about SP is goes away? [20:00] <Samael> Hey, I think I've actually done that before. It was in the middle of a lucid dream though, after it had destabilized. [20:01] <Samael> Ah, that clears up the SP vs HH thing, thanks. [20:01] <distilled> question [20:01] <@naiya> Bag0: No, not usually. It's not the thinking about SP that jolts me awake--it's getting too excited about it. [20:01] <BagO> Oh ok because sometimes when it's coming and I start to think about it, it starts to back off a bit. [20:02] <drdr> So, naiya, how do I transition into dreaming from SP? [20:02] <Mancon123> + [20:02] <Mancon123> Oops sorry [20:02] <@naiya> We will get into the transition in detail in another lecture. [20:02] <distilled> I have a problem with sleep walking. Is there any chance of me acting out my dreams when WILDING? [20:03] <@naiya> Bag0: we are all different. For WILD it is VERY important that you listen to your own mental and physical cues. So in your case, try not to think about SP, and just relax. [20:03] <@naiya> distilled: That is possible, yes. I know of a WILDer who sleptwalk during their WILD. It was a bizarre experience. [20:04] <Samael> I think I've actually experienced SP before. I'm not sure, because I didn't want to try to move and accidently wake myself up completely. [20:04] <Samael> *I'm not sure if I was paralyzed. [20:04] <@naiya> It's possible. [20:04] <@naiya> Since you didn't try to move, you wouldn't have known if you were or not. [20:04] <shiraniaori> question [20:04] <drdr> Aw [20:04] <Samael> And then I fell asleep completely [20:04] <@naiya> That's why sometimes we might not notice SP when it happens. [20:04] <Mancon123> Wait doesnt sleepwalking occur in NREM only? [20:04] <@naiya> aww [20:04] <Samael>**Bah. [20:04] <@naiya> Shiran: yes? [20:05] <drdr> Hey I have to go, thanks for the lecture naiya [20:05] <shiraniaori> When you feel SP is it always overpowering? [20:05] <drdr> I'll see you on tuesday? [20:05] <shiraniaori> As in, impossible to move until its gone [20:05] <shiraniaori> or can you snap yourself out of it easier sometimes, etc etc [20:06] <Samael> I'd guess it's not overpowering if you don't struggle against it. [20:06] <@naiya> Mancon123: in NREM sleep our skeletal muscles are NOT paralyzed. In REM sleep they are. Sleep walking is a disorder where the function that paralyzes the muscles isn't working, so dreams are acted out. [20:06] <Mancon123> Oh okay thank you! [20:06] <@naiya> Shiran: Sometimes SP is overpowering, sometimes not. It varies from person to person AND it can be different with each WILD. [20:06] == drdr [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [20:06] <@naiya> That's another reason why WILD is so hard [20:07] <Mancon123> Thank you for the lecture! [20:07] <Samael> Jesus, I have three pages of notes here. XD I don't like reading chat logs [20:07] <@naiya> YW. [20:07] <@naiya> lol [20:07] <shiraniaori> So is each WILD a different experience? last question [20:07] <@naiya> Yeah, I thought I would end the lecture with SP. [20:07] <@naiya> Yes, each WILD is a different experience [20:07] <@naiya> Exciting, no? [20:07] <Samael> Thanks, Naiya. You've cleared up a few things I was having trouble with. [20:07] == distilled [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [20:08] <@naiya> I'm glad [20:08] <@naiya> This pretty much concludes the lecture. [20:08] <shiraniaori> lol, alright, well thanks for the lecture, see you on tuesday [20:08] <quorthonafull> Thanks! [20:08] <@naiya> Next time we're going to get into the actual WILD process. [20:08] <Mancon123> So I will record my WILD preparation in my Student Workbook and then describe my attempt and see if it works [20:08] <BagO> Yeah thanks a lot naiya [20:08] <@naiya> Yes, please do Mancon [20:09] <Mancon123> Okay thanks. [20:09] <@naiya> I will have to leave now--I'll stick around for questions for all the other lectures but I have a lot to get done today [20:09] <Samael> See ya. [20:09] <@naiya> I'll post the log in the syllabus thread.

[Naiya]

In this one, we covered the first 3 phases. Spoiler for Second Lecture: Status#DVX#DVAXSerenityXBagOX (no topic set) [18:37] == naiya [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [18:37] == mode/#DVA [+o naiya] by DreamBot [18:37] <@naiya> [18:40] <Mancon123> Lol im always waiting an hour before this starts [18:42] <@naiya> aw xD [18:44] <Mancon123> But I do other things too. I don't just stare at this for an hour xD [18:44] <!Alex> lies [18:45] <@naiya> xD [18:45] <Mancon123> But you do the same Alex! Don't deny it xD [18:45] <!Alex> guilty as charged :3 [18:50] <@naiya> Hopefully I'll get through phases 1-3 today. [18:50] <@naiya> at least 1 & 2 [18:51] <Mancon123> Naiya how do you relax when WILDing? [18:51] <@naiya> I imagine that a fire is next to my bed [18:52] <@naiya> and I throw away all the thoughts that come to mind [18:52] <@Serenity> wait... [18:52] <@Serenity> oh! [18:52] <@naiya> I practice abdominal breathing [18:52] <Mancon123> That actually sounds cool 0_0 I get**so relaxed by fires...thanks! [18:52] <@naiya> And I feel myself sinking down into the bed and into nothingness. [18:52] <@naiya> I also have an iphone app that has a fire sound [18:52] <@naiya> it's very nice [18:53] <@naiya> of course then if you do that, be aware that the sound will be heard throughout the entire dream. [18:53] <Mancon123> Yeah [18:53] <@naiya> BRB, gotta do something before we start! [18:54] <Mancon123> Okay [18:54] <@Serenity> ooh... i need to put my ocean sounds back on my mp3 player... [18:58] == shiraniaori [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [18:58] <shiraniaori> Hey [18:58] <@naiya> hi [18:58] <shiraniaori> As soon as this is over I think Im gonna pass out. I just played through all of guitar hero and I'm physically worn out [18:59] <!Alex> guitar hero [18:59] <shiraniaori> I found it like 3 hours ago, havent played in a good while [18:59] == Atras [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [18:59] <@naiya> aww hehe [18:59] <@naiya> hello [18:59] <@Serenity> you're not a rockstar until you make your fingers bleed from a REAL guitar!!! j/k [18:59] <Mancon123> lol [19:00] <shiraniaori> lol, I'm gonna play bass, I like it more than a real guitar. [19:00] <Atras> Hi [19:00] == Atras [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [19:01] <@Serenity> bass is pretty fun, too [19:01] == canadianbif [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:01] <@naiya> hi [19:01] <canadianbif> wow i love you [19:02] == Atras [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:02] <@Serenity> but think of it this way... if you play guitar, you can play bass by default [19:02] <@naiya> We'll wait a few minutes to see if anyone else trickles in. [19:02] <Mancon123> Naiya you should make your name in the chat a different color so you pop out [19:02] <canadianbif> agreed [19:02] <!Alex> no problemo, senores [19:02] == mode/#DVA [+a naiya] by Alex [19:02] <&naiya> [19:02] <@Serenity> oooh say something now! [19:02] <&naiya> ok [19:02] <&naiya> something [19:02] <@Serenity> i don't get a new colour [19:02] <Atras> Hi [19:02] == BagO [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:02] <@Serenity> just a new symbol [19:03] <@Serenity> (for naiya, that is) [19:03] <BagO> and didnt mean to slap you btw [19:03] <&naiya> yah [19:03] == BagO [[email protected]] has left #DVA [""] [19:03] <&naiya> np [19:03] == zebrah [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:03] == mode/#DVA [+o zebrah] by DreamBot [19:03] == BagO [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:03] <&naiya> wb [19:03] <@zebrah> woah class? [19:03] <&naiya> yup [19:03] <@Serenity> yarp [19:03] <Atras> Naiya r u seeing my words im on my iphone and i dont know if it works [19:03] <&naiya> WILD [19:04] <@zebrah> lol sorry [19:04] <&naiya> atras, I see your words [19:04] <shiraniaori> it works [19:04] <@zebrah> What class? [19:04] <Atras> Ok cool [19:04] <@Serenity> WILD... [19:04] <&naiya> WILD [19:04] <&naiya> lol [19:04] <@zebrah> Has it started yet [19:04] <&naiya> you're welcome to sit in [19:04] <@Serenity> no... [19:04] <&naiya> It's about to start. [19:04] <@zebrah> Ok [19:04] <@zebrah> Naiya after class can you add my final students [19:05] <Atras> My fones gunna die soon T_T [19:06] <&naiya> yes, send me the list [19:06] <@zebrah> Ok mam [19:06] <@zebrah> [19:06] <Mancon123> lol I read Ok mom instead mam [19:06] <Mancon123> xD [19:07] <Atras> Lol [19:07] <&naiya> mam [19:07] <&naiya> xD [19:08] <@zebrah> lol [19:08] <&naiya> Ok, I guess we should start now [19:08] <@zebrah> Naiya if you were my mom that would be crazy [19:09] <&naiya> it's almost ten past. [19:09] == quorthonafull [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:09] <@zebrah> hi [19:09] <shiraniaori> It's a sign [19:09] <quorthonafull> HI! [19:09] <shiraniaori> Hey [19:09] TheUnknown [[email protected]] requested CTCP TIME from naiya: [19:09] <Mancon123> Hi [19:09] <&naiya> So, last time we talked about what a WILD is, went over sleep stages, and talked about HH and SP. [19:09] <&naiya> Hi guys [19:09] <Atras> Naiya i hav to go my fone is being stupid ill read the lecture later [19:09] <&naiya> Today I hope we can cover the first 2 or 3 stages of the WILD proces. [19:09] == Atras [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [19:10] <@zebrah> great [19:10] <&naiya> OK, so Phase 1 is Preparation [19:11] <&naiya> In this phase, we'll talk about everything you want to do ahead of time before you first go to bed. [19:11] <&naiya> First of all, decide if you're doing WBTB or a nap. [19:11] <&naiya> It's been mentioned all over the forums as well as lest lecture that you don't want to attempt WILD when you first go to sleep. [19:12] <&naiya> last* [19:12] <&naiya> For most everyone here, I'm gonna assume that it's gonna be WBTB. [19:12] <&naiya> If not, then just combine phase 1 and 2 when you do the WILD. [19:12] <&naiya> Anywho [19:12] <&naiya> First of all, make sure you have a good place that you can WILD [19:13] <&naiya> If you have a spouse, pet, ect. in your bed, you'll have to move to another place during your WBTB and WILD attempt. [19:13] <&naiya> cause someone moving the bed obviously will ruin the WILD [19:13] <@Serenity> true story... [19:13] <@Serenity> [19:13] <&naiya> hehehe yeah [19:13] <&naiya> So in your case, maybe the couch or a guest bed or something [19:14] <Mancon123> My pet sleeps next to me but not on my bed. Sometimes she makes noise (such as her moving) is this okay? [19:14] <&naiya> Be sure that the place is comfortable, and lay out anything you will want, i.e. sleeping mask, earbuds, white noise machine, fan ect [19:14] <&naiya> Mancon123: No, it's probably a bad idea to have her there when you try to WILD [19:14] <Mancon123> Okay [19:14] <&naiya> The noise she makes can jolt you awake or make it hard to relax [19:15] <&naiya> moreover, you'll be thinking about her or worrying she will make noise in the back of your head which is also distracting [19:15] <&naiya> ideally, you should be the only one in the room. [19:15] <canadianbif> what is your opinion on "galantamine and choline" and melatonin right when you wake up? [19:15] <Mancon123> Ok thank you [19:16] <&naiya> Ok so, other things to set up--make sure you'll be warm enough or cool enough, make sure the room will be nice and dark [19:16] <&naiya> Next thing to do--decide on when you'll WBTB and set your alarm. [19:16] <&naiya> Also, be sure that you'll have time to do the full WILD attempt. [19:16] <&naiya> So if you have school or work in the morning, it's not a great night to WILD [19:17] <&naiya> If you want to anyway, be sure to go to bed a little early so that it makes up for any lost sleep [19:17] <&naiya> it's VERY hard to WILD when you're worrying that you'll lose sleeo, that you have to get up in a few hours, ect ect [19:17] <&naiya> So weekends are great for WILDing [19:17] <quorthonafull> [19:18] <&naiya> Make sure that you don't take any over the counter sleep aids or things that will make you overtired like benedryl [19:18] <@zebrah> Naiya what if we can't set an alarm because other people will wake up [19:18] <@Serenity> bugger [19:18] <&naiya> hehehe [19:18] <&naiya> a vibrating alarm works. [19:19] <&naiya> failing that....drink a full glass of water or milk before bed [19:19] <@Serenity> i'm always worried i won't fall asleep. i was hoping for the guarenteed assurance [19:19] <&naiya> water is best because it goes through you faster [19:19] <quorthonafull> I fill my bladder AND set an alarm [19:19] <quorthonafull> only the two things at the same time can wake me up! [19:19] <@zebrah> Naiya I will do a WILD but I never fall asleep again [19:19] <&naiya> aww yeah [19:20] <@Serenity> i wake up naturally at around 4.5 hours! xD [19:20] <&naiya> Serenity, you ought to WILD when you wake up naturally [19:20] <@Serenity> i know, i know.... we'll get to the scary bit in a sec [19:20] <quorthonafull> sometimes, I wake up at around 6 hours, 10 or 5 minutes before the alarm rings [19:20] <&naiya> hehehe [19:20] <canadianbif> what is better, water or alarm? [19:20] <&naiya> IF you wake before your alarm, then just stay up and do the WILD then. [19:21] <&naiya> hmm well it is always better to wake naturally, so probably water. [19:21] <shiraniaori> This seems like an assault of questions... [19:21] <&naiya> This is because you'll wake when you're in REM [19:21] <@zebrah> Ok if I piss myself I will kill you [19:21] <&naiya> so it is a little easier to trick your body into slipping right back into REM [19:21] <&naiya> lol zebrah, you'll be fine. [19:21] <quorthonafull> I need too much motivation, that's why I use the two things [19:21] <&naiya> hehe [19:21] <@zebrah> Lol [19:22] <&naiya> OK, shall we move on? [19:22] <canadianbif> questions at the end? [19:22] <&naiya> yes, I'll stay for an hour after class for more questions. [19:22] <&naiya> So don't worry about not having them answered [19:22] <&naiya> the last thing about this phase is mental preparation. [19:23] == kevojy [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:23] <&naiya> It's important to realize that you WILL be losing a little sleep, and accept that. [19:23] <kevojy> Hi, sorry I'm late, I probably can't stay long. [19:23] <&naiya> You also want to commit to at least 30 minutes to attempt the WILD [19:23] <&naiya> no prob [19:24] <&naiya> So it's very very important that, after say 20 minutes of nothing happening, you DO NOT QUIT. [19:24] <&naiya> The second you tell yourself "oh it's not gonna happen tonight...fuckit" [19:24] <&naiya> then your chance of WILDing goes from x% to 0 [19:25] <@zebrah> Damn no wonder I fail [19:25] <&naiya> I can't stress enough how much LDing relies on your own thinking, on your own expectations and intentions. [19:25] <&naiya> You MUST learn to think positive about it. [19:25] <@Serenity> what about after an hour and you think to yourself, "fuckit?" [19:26] <&naiya> An hour is more acceptable, yeah [19:26] <&naiya> But try not to keep track of time when you WILD [19:26] <&naiya> It's kind of distracting and will stress you out. [19:26] <@zebrah> Yeah often times you will be wrong [19:26] <@zebrah> time wise [19:26] <&naiya> [19:27] <&naiya> That about covers phase 1 [19:27] <&naiya> Let's move on to Phase 2 [19:27] <&naiya> Awakening [19:27] <&naiya> IF you're napping, then phase 1 & 2 will be one after the other [19:27] <&naiya> So most important and obvious thing when you wake: GO TO THE BATHROOM! [19:27] <@Serenity> (i know the time because i use music and it's on an hour timer) [19:27] <&naiya> ahh I see xD [19:28] <&naiya> Serenity, you may want to use something different, since the music might make you aware of how much time passes. [19:28] <&naiya> I would recommend something that loops or white noise or something, like ocean waves. [19:28] <@Serenity> (yeah, i need to invest in ear plugs, i lost mine, continue on! xD) [19:28] <&naiya> aww [19:28] <&naiya> anywho [19:29] <&naiya> So yeah, bathroom first lol. [19:29] <shiraniaori> question [19:29] <&naiya> yup? [19:29] <&naiya> even if you don't have to go, go anyway. [19:29] <quorthonafull> me too, I have only a big uncomfy headpones [19:29] <shiraniaori> So what if your ffairly awake when you wake up? Do you really have to move around regardless? [19:29] <&naiya> OK, your alternative is just getting out a fan and turning it on nearby. [19:30] <&naiya> That's as good as anything with white noise, really. [19:30] <&naiya> Just don't point it directly at yourself lol [19:30] <shiraniaori> can you just relax more instead? [19:30] <&naiya> You need to actually get out of bed. [19:30] <&naiya> Even if you feel fairly awake. [19:30] <&naiya> If you're awake and alert, your WBTB can be as little as a few minutes or less. But you really need to get out of bed. [19:31] <&naiya> And use the bathroom. Srsly. [19:31] <shiraniaori> Also, are we gonna learn about any other types of WILD like DEILD or FILD or anything? [19:31] <&naiya> This class will focus on the classic WILD, and a little on VILD. [19:31] <&naiya> I might get to DEILD, but not FILD. [19:31] <shiraniaori> kk thanks [19:31] <&naiya> Every WILD is essentially the classic WILD with a little variation. [19:32] <&naiya> OK, so there are two major hurdles with WILD [19:32] <&naiya> falling asleep and failing [19:32] <&naiya> or being too awake and being unable to relax and fall asleep at all. [19:32] <canadianbif> failing essentially [19:33] <kevojy> I already have to go hopefully I'll be able to stay longer next time.. Bye, and thank you! [19:33] <&naiya> ah ok [19:33] == kevojy [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [19:34] <&naiya> OK, so if you fall asleep too easily, here are some things you can do [19:34] <&naiya> turn on the lights and DJ anything [19:34] <&naiya> drink a little soda [19:34] <&naiya> coffee might be too strong [19:35] <&naiya> Go outside for a minute or so [19:35] <&naiya> Or do a puzzle or some other thing that forces you to think logically and use your brain [19:35] <&naiya> TV and computer are not really advised because you tend to zone out when you're using them [19:35] <&naiya> in a WILD you need to be alert and self-aware. [19:36] <&naiya> Now, if you have trouble falling asleep, here's what you can do [19:36] <&naiya> don't turn on the lights [19:36]*** Mancon123 slaps Alex around a bit with a large fishbot [19:36] <&naiya> turn on your white noise or what have you before getting out of bed [19:37] <Mancon123> Sorry I didnt mean to press slap [19:37] <canadianbif> would melatonin help? [19:37] <&naiya> relax for a while before actually getting out of bed [19:37] <&naiya> I wouldn't recommend melatonin, no [19:37] <&naiya> It would probably make you too sleepy [19:37] <&naiya> but you could try it and see how it works for you [19:37] <@Serenity> or keep you awake too much, in my case.... don't ask [19:37] <&naiya> aww xD [19:38] <@Serenity> i had an insomniac week from hell when i tried melatonin... *shivers* [19:38] <&naiya> Lastly, you can adjust the time of your WBTB on the next attempt based on how sleepy or alert you were [19:38] <canadianbif> wow, scary [19:38] <&naiya> ouch DL [19:38] <&naiya> that pretty much sums up the awakening phase [19:38] <quorthonafull> I have a problem in this phase [19:39] <&naiya> OK, relaxation phase [19:39] <quorthonafull> unwittingly, I tend to sing songs in my mind [19:39] <&naiya> ok, shoot [19:39] <&naiya> xD [19:39] <quorthonafull> HEAVY songs [19:39] <&naiya> oooh that is tough, haha. [19:39] <@Serenity> if i may interject, if you are able to get your hands on some, I would recommend L-theanine. Many have said they like it best as a sleep aid, and it is non-REM supressing [19:39] <quorthonafull> yes, it is [19:39] <&naiya> ty Serenity, that helps [19:39] <&naiya> not much I can help you with there, lol [19:39] <&naiya> no one knows how to get a song out of their head [19:40] <quorthonafull> d'oh! [19:40] <&naiya> you can try listening to another song [19:40] <shiraniaori> I'd say you can try meditation, or get a different song stuck in your head [19:40] <&naiya> but there's no true cure, kinda like hiccups lol [19:40] <@zebrah> I play death metal in my head also [19:40] <quorthonafull> LOL [19:40] <&naiya> hehe, yeah [19:40] <quorthonafull> Yes, Death Metal [19:40] <quorthonafull> me too [19:40] <&naiya> OR you can replace the lyrics with ones about LDing XD [19:40] <Mancon123> XD [19:40] <&naiya> OK, so yeah...relaxation. xD [19:41] <shiraniaori> That's not gonna work for me, the batman theme song can't be changed like that... lol [19:41] <shiraniaori> go on [19:41] <&naiya> It might be hard to relax when you're so excited to WILD [19:41] <&naiya> it takes practice [19:41] <&naiya> First of all, you may want to learn to meditate--this will help a lot (and get you more DILDs, too!) [19:41] <@zebrah> quorthonafull: do you like children of bodom [19:41] <&naiya> Zebrah, take off-topic to PM, please. [19:42] <@zebrah> Sorry man [19:42] <@zebrah> mam* [19:42] <Mancon123> Doesnt Ninja do a lot of meditating? [19:42] <quorthonafull> LOL [19:42] <&naiya> Ninja? I'm not sure. [19:42] <@zebrah> I am getting confused with different channels [19:42] <&naiya> Anyway [19:42] <canadianbif> how should one meditate? [19:43] <&naiya> There are tons of different meditations, google helps with that. [19:43] <canadianbif> cool beans [19:43] <&naiya> I'll tell one simple way to relax that doubles as a meditation, though [19:43] <&naiya> This is the first one I learned [19:44] <&naiya> First of all, you want to start breathing deep into your abdomen [19:44] <&naiya> abdominal breathing to learn to breathe this way, it's best to lay on your back and breathe so that your tummy is going up and down. [19:44] <BagO> If you want to look into meditation find the book Mindfulness In Plain English.**It's a great book and explains a lot. [19:44] <&naiya> your shoulders shouldn't be moving [19:44] == Alex [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [19:44] <&naiya> yus ty [19:45] <&naiya> Anywho, you do this type of breathing. [19:45] <&naiya> Then you start with your toes [19:45] <&naiya> Tense them up [19:45] <&naiya> Then, relax them [19:45] <&naiya> now, your legs...tense, & relax [19:45] <&naiya> do this slowly for every body part until you get to your head [19:46] <&naiya> Finally, feel yourself sinking down, sinking like you are floating, sinking in a pool of water [19:46] <&naiya> It's very relaxing [19:46] <&naiya> I have found that the sinking thing really helps get SP to start [19:46] <BagO> Question [19:46] <&naiya> yes? [19:47] <BagO> Do you actually have to be paralyzed?**Or can it just be an extremely heavy feeling with vibrations [19:47] <BagO> Because I dont think I can get fully paralyzed [19:47] <BagO> It will take effort to move but I can still move if I really wanted too [19:48] <&naiya> SP is different for every person AND every WILD attempt [19:48] <&naiya> you might not get vibrations at all [19:48] <&naiya> you might get vibrations and feel like you can move [19:49] <BagO> My attempt always end that way [19:49] <quorthonafull> me too [19:49] <BagO> becauce I never reach full SP [19:49] <&naiya> if you have vibrations and you feel that you CAN move...I suggest you try moving very very slowly, just your hand. It's VERY likely that the movement you feel is actually your dream body, and not your physical body [19:49] <BagO> I don't get that eather lol [19:49] <&naiya> moving your physical body will always stop the vibrations and snap you out of SP. [19:49] <@zebrah> Oh sweet [19:49] <BagO> How can it feel like your dream body [19:50] <&naiya> Practice will tell you which is which don't make assumptions, be careful and slow with your body [19:50] <BagO> How can you tell a difference when your just picking up your hand [19:50] <BagO> ok [19:50] <&naiya> you'll know, eventually [19:50] <&naiya> like when you get up out of bed, RC, and you might just be WILDing! [19:50] <&naiya> Generally though--if you ARE moving AND you feel vibrations....then that is not your physical body moving [19:51] <&naiya> because vibrations are the tell-tail sign of SP, and you can't have SP and move at the same time [19:51] <BagO> Is the vibrations the time to try and go to your dream body [19:51] <BagO> Or should they subside first [19:51] == zebrah [[email protected]] has quit [Client exited] [19:51] <&naiya> yes, that is a good time to try, or you can wait, too. [19:51] <&naiya> We'll get more into that next time [19:51] <BagO> Ok [19:51] <BagO> thanks [19:51] <&naiya> during the transition phase [19:52] <&naiya> let's try to finish this one before the class is over [19:52] <quorthonafull> So should I try that visualizations thing? [19:52] <&naiya> visualization is a great thing to do during relaxation, yes! [19:52] <&naiya> imagine, or see yourself in the lucid dream [19:52] <&naiya> when the WILD happens, your imaginings will become "real" [19:52] <&naiya> and you'll be in the dream [19:52] <&naiya> or, they might change [19:53] <&naiya> of your visualization changes, allow it to and go along with it, just keeping in mind that you're dreaming [19:53] <&naiya> One more point--I see this counting thing done a lot [19:54] <&naiya> This is my personal bias--but I think that counting is way too distracting, it makes you remember how long you've been trying to WILD, and it is too forceful on your mind so it's hard to WILD. [19:54] <quorthonafull> It didn't work for me [19:54] <&naiya> Personally, I don't recommend it. I recommend visualization instead. [19:54] <&naiya> either you get bored counting and fall asleep, or it is so distracting that you stay awake :/ I'm not a fan of the technique. [19:55] <&naiya> At the relaxation phase, what I like to do is daydream for a little while, and as I relax further, I allow the daydream to take over [19:55] <&naiya> So I just allow whatever images appear to come to mind, and I go "oh, will I go there? will that me the dream?" [19:56] <&naiya> sometimes there is an extreme tunnel effect with them [19:56] <&naiya> again, try not to focus on them, just relax [19:56] <&naiya> focusing too hard trying to "see" them at first will make you too alert and wake you. [19:56] <&naiya> just allow images, sounds, sensations to come, and just be. [19:57] <&naiya> HH is normally what you will experience during this phase. [19:57] <&naiya> It will likely carry over to the next two phases. [19:57] <&naiya> One more thing you can do--if you have any sort of white noise [19:58] <&naiya> I get a lot of auditory hallucinations [19:58] <@Serenity> (this includes ocean sounds?) [19:58] <&naiya> yes it does [19:58] <@Serenity> (rawr!) [19:58] <&naiya> So sometimes, I hear odd things during WILD or when I fall asleep in general [19:58] <&naiya> things like, barely audible whispering, music, ocean, ect. [19:58] <BagO> HI and HH are the same thing rite? [19:59] <&naiya> HI refers to visuals only--HH refers to all senses [19:59] <@Serenity> my mum told me she hears what sounds like a very quiet radio... so she tries to make out what the announcers are saying [19:59] <&naiya> hehehe yah [19:59] <&naiya> So sometimes I either try to change the sounds, change the music, ect. while I'm waiting for a dream to start [19:59] <&naiya> a lot of times, this will take me directly to a dream without even having SP [20:00] <BagO> Naiya how long did it take you to have your first WILD? [20:00] <shiraniaori> Can you go from auditory HH straight to a dream? Is it harder? [20:00] <&naiya> Bag0, I never knew what WILD was until years afterward. My first ones were several years ago, by accident. I had SP and WILDed when I tried to get out of SP. [20:01] <&naiya> shiraniaori--that's too subjective of a question. I can go from HH to a dream, but I can't say it's easier or harder. It just happens that way. [20:01] <&naiya> Every time we WILD, it's like taking a ride. [20:01] <&naiya> We just relax and let it take us there [20:02] <&naiya> We have no real control over if or when SP comes, things like that. [20:02] <&naiya> Although we can tweak the HH sometimes [20:02] <shiraniaori> Good point, I'm just wondering if it's common to WILD from only auditory HH, no ones ever talked about it [20:02] <shiraniaori> always HI [20:02] <&naiya> So yeah, when it comes to specific methods, no one can say if it's easier or harder from person to person. [20:03] <&naiya> I don't think it's too common, no. [20:03] <&naiya> I've been WILDing for probably...ten years? [20:03] <&naiya> So after so long, it becomes easy and natural. The transitions can be very smooth. [20:03] <&naiya> Anywho, this pretty much concludes the lecture. [20:04] <Mancon123>**yay! Thanks so much! [20:04] <&naiya> Next time we will cover the last two phases--Transition, and Stabilization. [20:04] <quorthonafull> Great lecture, THANKS! [20:04] <BagO> Is there only one class left? [20:04] <&naiya> They are the hardest stages, so do try to come or ask questions [20:04] <canadianbif> is it possible that water will wake you up too early after one of the earlier rem stages? [20:04] <&naiya> One lecture, yes--but you can always ask questions in the DVA forums. In fact I'll post a Q&A thread for the class there. [20:05] <&naiya> Also, I'll be reading your workbooks and helping as much as possible [20:05] <BagO> Alright cool [20:05] <&naiya> it is possible that water will wake you too early, yes [20:05] <shiraniaori> Thanks [20:05] <Mancon123> Naiya should read my workbook the most [20:05] <shiraniaori> lawl [20:05] <&naiya> speaking of which, BRB a sec! xD [20:06] <shiraniaori> I'll brb too, might be 5-10 min [20:06] <Mancon123> shes reading my workbook. That's why she had to BRB xD [20:06] <shiraniaori> lol you and your ego [20:06] <Mancon123> lol you and your name is hard to pronounce 0_0 [20:06] <BagO> lol [20:06] <quorthonafull> lol [20:07] <&naiya> back [20:07] <Mancon123> So naiya..how was my workbook you just read? [20:07] <@Serenity> so... let's see if i can remember my question.... [20:07] <&naiya> lol [20:07] <@Serenity> oooh right! [20:07] <&naiya> yeah, Q&A time [20:07] <shiraniaori> Shirani Aori, I haven't found a way to change my profile name She-rahn-ee Ow-ree. You can call me Shir. [20:07] <@Serenity> so, lets say i use ocean waves [20:08] <@Serenity> because i don't have ear plugs [20:08] <&naiya> right [20:08] <Mancon123> @shir OH! thanks xD [20:08] <&naiya> that will be fine [20:08] <@Serenity> should i let it loop with no auto-off timer? [20:08] <&naiya> yes, let it loop. [20:08] <@Serenity> would the waves stopping wake me up? [20:08] <&naiya> if it shuts off before you get into the dream, it will probably distract you [20:08] <&naiya> yes, probably [20:09] <@Serenity> i might hear it fade in and fade out, hehe [20:09] <Mancon123> Naiya: When is the right time to quit while WILDing? Like after how long should you quit if it's not working. [20:09] <BagO> questione [20:09] <&naiya> like I said, you will very likely hear the waves in your entire dream, too [20:09] <@Serenity> but it's designed for sleeping, so, hopefully it won't be a big deal [20:09] <@Serenity> it's automatically an hour long track [20:09] <&naiya> The right time to quit--NEVER! [20:09] <&naiya> ideally, anyway [20:09] <Mancon123> [20:09] <BagO> If you play music or white noise and you WILD will you hear it in your dream? [20:09] <&naiya> but really, it's a judgement thing. I can't tell you. But try to WILD for at least 30 minutes, if not 60 [20:09] <canadianbif> how long should you spend on prep? [20:10] <&naiya> by prep you mean relaxing ect? [20:10] <Mancon123> I wont quit at 30 but 60 I probably will [20:10] <canadianbif> yeah [20:10] <@Serenity> if you give up, ALWAYS reality check!! [20:10] <&naiya> or how long should the WBTB be? [20:10] <&naiya> YES always RC! [20:10] <&naiya> ok hold on a sec. xD [20:10] <canadianbif> and does that 30-60 include prep? [20:10] <&naiya> I gotta keep track of these questions xD let's see. [20:11] <&naiya> ideally, 30-60 should start with the time that you lay back down after the WBTB. [20:11] <@Serenity> also, i noticed for me, if I try to WILD for an hour, and decide to go to sleep naturally, i usually have a DILD [20:11] <&naiya> it shouldn't include the WBTB itself. [20:11] <canadianbif> so it incudes relaxation [20:11] <&naiya> yup, a lot of failed WILDs give us DILD [20:11] <&naiya> the WBTB itself can help with DILD [20:11] <&naiya> because your mind is already in an alert, waking state in the middle of the night. [20:11] <&naiya> OK [20:11] <&naiya> <BagO> If you play music or white noise and you WILD will you hear it in your dream? [20:11] <&naiya> Yes you will [20:11] <BagO> Yeah [20:12] <canadianbif> fuck yea [20:12] <BagO> Ohhh [20:12] <@Serenity> yarp [20:12] <@Serenity> so try to make in unobtrusive [20:12] <BagO> I was going to say if you didn't it would be a good way to tell when you transitioned [20:12] <canadianbif> like lady gaga or somethin [20:12] <Mancon123> but it won'y be as loud as when awake right? [20:12] <&naiya> hehehe [20:12] <@Serenity> like, no lyrics, no sharp changes in the music [20:12] <&naiya> it will be as loud yes, haha. [20:12] <Mancon123> oh xD [20:12] <canadianbif> so then more bieber than gaga [20:12] <&naiya> if it's just a fan or something that is very quiet--which is true white noise, you probably will never notice it or really hear it. [20:12] <&naiya> but music you WILL hear. [20:12] <quorthonafull> no Metal (oh, that's hard for me...) [20:13] <canadianbif> +1 fan [20:13] <&naiya> I use a fan all the time [20:13] <canadianbif> same [20:13] <&naiya> it works better than any of that fancy pants crap they sell [20:13] <BagO> Ive been using A/C [20:13] <&naiya> AC works too [20:13] <@Serenity> i've experimented with music... if there's a sharp change in the song.... i was drifting along in my WILD and then was jolted awake by the beginning of the track, each time it looped.... bad choice, obviously [20:13] <&naiya> yeah xP [20:14] <&naiya> I had a WILD with music once ever [20:14] <&naiya> On an airplane [20:14] <&naiya> was kind of an accident [20:14] <&naiya> it was kiss from a rose by seal, and it was looping [20:14] <&naiya> I danced to it in the dream, it was really fun ^_^ [20:14] <@Serenity> ooooh good choice [20:14] <@Serenity> i have a funny story about that song for another day [20:14] <Mancon123> LOL [20:15] <@Serenity> brb [20:15] <&naiya> hehe [20:15] <&naiya> any other questions? [20:15] <&naiya> did I miss any? [20:15] <Mancon123> Wait [20:15] <Mancon123> Its not about WILDing [20:15] <&naiya> yup? [20:15] <Mancon123> xD [20:15] <&naiya> lol ok [20:15] <canadianbif> yes how do you feel about dinner for shmucks? [20:15] <BagO> lol [20:15] <&naiya> lol, it looks pretty good. [20:16] <Mancon123> Have you eaten chocolate lately in a dream? [20:16] <canadianbif> i agree, interesting [20:16] <&naiya> hehehe....no but I did eat live peeps [20:16] <Mancon123> 0_0 [20:16] <&naiya> they tasted of meat and sugar. [20:16] <&naiya> mmmm. [20:16] <Mancon123> but ima vegetarian [20:16] <Mancon123> D:w [20:16] <Mancon123> xD [20:16] <canadianbif> how old are you and when did you begin lucid dreaming? [20:16] <&naiya> The person who gave them to me insisted that they weren't really alive when I refused to eat them at first. [20:16] <BagO> veg FTW [20:16] <&naiya> I was 12 [20:17] <Mancon123> Bag0 IKR? [20:17] <canadianbif> wow, early [20:17] <BagO> Yeah started the day after easter [20:17] <BagO> not too long but i like it [20:17] <&naiya> I started trying at 12 anyway. I got consistent LDs around 15 I think. I didn't keep a DJ so I'm not sure. [20:17] <@Serenity> that person was right though, right? they weren't actually alive? [20:17] <&naiya> IN MY DAY....all I had was the "look at your hands" RC and the "I will have a lucid dream tonight" MILD! [20:18] <&naiya> And NO DJ! [20:18] <@Serenity> i didn't even have that! i had to rely on just realizing it was a dream! but i journalled [20:18] <&naiya> IN THE SNOW [20:18] <&naiya> hehehe [20:18] <@Serenity> uphill, both ways [20:18] <&naiya> Serenity, yeah he was right [20:18] <BagO> lol [20:18] <@Serenity> dunno how that works [20:19] <@Serenity> the luxery you had with the hand check! [20:19] <canadianbif> does ur dj have to be very specific? [20:19] <@Serenity> luxury* [20:19] <&naiya> hehehe [20:19] <&naiya> The DJ should be as detailed as possible, yep. [20:19] <canadianbif> ughh [20:19] <@Serenity> we could totally turn this into a monty python sketch [20:19] <&naiya> xD [20:20] <Mancon123> GTG thanks for the lecture

[Naiya]

In this lecture we covered the transition and stabilization phases. This is the last lecture in the course. Spoiler for Lecture 3: Status#DVX#LucidDreamingX#DVAX (no topic set) [18:46] == naiya [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [18:46] == mode/#DVA [+o naiya] by DreamBot [18:46] == Alex [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [18:46] == mode/#DVA [+y Alex] by irc.dreamviews.com [18:46] == mode/#DVA [+o Alex] by DreamBot [18:47] <atras> oh hey naiya [18:47] <@naiya> hi [18:48] <atras> just wondering, how often do you WILD? [18:51] <@naiya> normally, once or twice a week. [18:51] <@naiya> I've gotten terrible out of practice in the last month or so though, because I traveled a lot. [18:52] <@naiya> My most recent one was...about 5 days ago [18:52] <atras> how long does it normally take u to do it [18:53] <@naiya> it varies, but usually less than 10 minutes o.o [18:53] <@naiya> sometimes as long as 30 [18:53] <atras> >.< lol i give up after 45 minutes [18:53] <atras> every time [18:54] <@naiya> aww [18:54] <@naiya> it takes a lot of practice [18:54] <@naiya> have you had a successful WILD before, or not yet? [18:54] <atras> nah [18:55] <atras> only DILDS [18:55] <atras> it gets rlly frusturating after spending alotta time on it lol but im inconsistent [18:55] <@naiya> aww yeah....consistency is key for LDing. [18:55] <@naiya> And WILD takes practice--especially getting that first one. [18:56] <@naiya> because each person has to learn what it feels like for their body to go through that transition [18:56] <atras> ya..is it normal to not have visual hallucinations? cuz i always get to sp but i never see anything [18:56] <@naiya> yeah, it's normal...some people don't get them [18:57] <atras> lol ok thts good [18:57] <@naiya> sometimes when I WILD, there's no HI, no SP, just BAM suddenly I'm in the dream [18:57] <@naiya> usually with those it's more like a DEILD, though. [18:57] <atras> do u normally have to open ur eyes cuz sometimes i feel like im in a dream but im afraid to open my eyes, and when i hold my breathe in a dream i cant breathe [19:00] <@naiya> hmm well...normally I don't need to open my eyes because the images of the dream just come [19:00] <atras> ok then maybe im just overthinking it lol [19:00] == distilled [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:00] <@naiya> hi [19:00] <atras> hello [19:00] <distilled> hi [19:00] <@naiya> yeah, probably [19:01] <@naiya> I'd say, don't worry about it [19:01] <@naiya> if you open your eyes and they're your physical eyes, then you weren't relaxed enough in the first place. [19:01] <atras> is it bad to WILD when im like half asleep [19:01] <@naiya> Because once you hit SP you won't be able to open your physical eyes anyway [19:01] <@naiya> you can try [19:01] <atras> i mean ive dont it alot [19:02] <@naiya> It's better to be awake enough that you can maintain consciousness, though. [19:02] <atras> i just wake up and just try to WILD right then [19:02] == Rush2112 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:02] <Rush2112> Hey [19:02] <Rush2112> I am here. [19:02] <atras> hi [19:02] <@naiya> Hmm well...you may want to get up for a few minutes first, then. [19:02] <Rush2112> I had a WILD!! On Tuesday! [19:02] <@naiya> Rush: congrats! [19:02] <atras> CONGRATS [19:02] <Rush2112> It was so weird though... [19:02] <atras> how so [19:02] <Rush2112> First of all, it was accidental [19:03] <Rush2112> I had just finished actually trying and failed [19:03] <Rush2112> So I rolled over [19:03] <Rush2112> And then there was a break in awareness between me drifting off and the vibrations starting [19:03] <atras> thts happened to me before, xcept i didnt get lucid [19:03] <Rush2112> Like, I remember rolling over to go to sleep but I don't remember anything except for the middle of the daydream and vibrations starting [19:03] <@naiya> Wow, nice [19:04] <Rush2112> And then from there I was aware [19:04] <Rush2112> Kind of like the vibrations jolted awareness back into me [19:04] <Rush2112> It was cool, I ended up in my bed and I just knew I was dreaming. My legs were floating up from under the covers and stuff. [19:04] <atras> oh ya also Naiya, how long after u fall asleep do u normally WILD [19:05] <Rush2112> If it helps, mine took place about 6 and a half hours after [19:05] <@naiya> for me? like....7-8 hours, sometimes 9-10 hours [19:05] <atras> hmm ya i normally do like 4 hours which might be why i fail [19:05] <@naiya> I have much better luck after getting a full night's sleep [19:05] <Rush2112> I have a question Naiya [19:05] <@naiya> yup? [19:06] <@naiya> the timing of the WBTB is different for everyone, so each person must experiment and see what time is best for them [19:06] <Rush2112> After I got out of bed, it was like my angle of vision was locked at a sideways angle [19:06] <Rush2112> As if I was seeing from the position I was *actually* sleeping in despite my dream body being up and about [19:06] <@naiya> hmm xD interesting. [19:06] == quorthonafull [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:06] <atras> does the fact tht its morning like 8 oclock or so make it hard to WILD [19:06] <@naiya> hi [19:06] <quorthonafull> hi [19:06] <Rush2112> What should I do to fix that? It was also incredibly blurry and unvivid and I woke up so quickly [19:07] <@naiya> Atras: it depends. If you have a hard time sleeping when it's light out, then yes. If not, then no [19:07] <atras> was it ur first wild [19:07] <Rush2112> Yeah [19:07] <atras> my first wild was messed up to [19:07] <@naiya> Rush: it's very very common for your first WILDs to be blurry like that. [19:07] <@naiya> I will actually be talking about that in today's lecture, so don't worry. [19:07] <atras> itll prolly get better next time [19:07] <Rush2112> What's frustrating is that, because I wasn't trying to have a WILD, I don't know what I did to achieve it. [19:07] <Rush2112> I know that when vibrations started I was daydreaming, that's it. [19:07] <@naiya> There are ways to stabilize the dream and get rid of the blurriness so don't worry. [19:08] <atras> SPINNNNNNNNNNNnnn [19:08] <atras> works for me [19:08] <@naiya> Hmm, only a few people today << [19:08] <@naiya> Spinning is one way [19:08] <atras> and i take deep breaths and tell myself to breathe [19:08] <@naiya> I prefer rubbing my hands and touching dream objects. [19:08] <@naiya> deep breathing is also very good [19:08] <Rush2112> Thing was, it was so damn hard to move [19:08] <atras> ya :p [19:09] <Rush2112> I couldn't control my dream body. [19:09] <Rush2112> But I DID telekinetically open a door, so... that's just weird. [19:09] <atras> interesting.. [19:09] <quorthonafull> hmmm... [19:09] <atras> ya i wudnt fret prolly just a first ld experience [19:09] <@naiya> Aww yeah if that happens, you can try focusing on one body part, like a finger or hand. Wiggle it around for a few seconds, then your whole arm, then your head, ect ect [19:09] <Rush2112> I have a dream-gift in telekinesis though, I levitated my guitar in my first LD xD [19:10] <@naiya> You will get better at control and all that stuff with practice, so don't worry ^_^ [19:10] <distilled> does eating before going to bed affect WILDing? [19:10] <Rush2112> Ok XD [19:10] <atras> lol i flew easily [19:10] <@naiya> ooh awesome. [19:10] <Rush2112> I flew in my second LD as well [19:10] <Rush2112> It came so naturally to me. [19:10] <atras> i thot u sed tht was ur first lol [19:10] <Rush2112> No, first WILD [19:10] <atras> ohhhh [19:11] <Rush2112> Technically I've had four, but they've all been unstable, half-lucid and bluury as hell. Except for the WILD, that was full lucidity. [19:11] <quorthonafull> I've summoned a Pepsi in a LD today [19:11] <atras> i read [19:11] <atras> lol [19:11] <Rush2112> Cool [19:11] <atras> was it good? did u taste it :p [19:11] <quorthonafull> It was great [19:11] <atras> lol nice [19:12] <Rush2112> My subconcious made up a drug in a dream once, Indian Lau or something weird like that [19:12] <@naiya> interesting xD [19:12] <Rush2112> I want to try it in an LD and be surprised by its effects [19:12] <quorthonafull> lol [19:12] <@naiya> OK...we better get started. [19:12] <atras> lol my lds have been prety boring xcept teh last one [19:12] <@naiya> It's almost a quarter past. [19:12] <Rush2112> K, sorry. [19:12] <@naiya> Today we're going to cover probably the most important phase--transition. And also the last phase, stabilization. [19:14] <@naiya> OK, so the hallmark signs of transition are SP and HH [19:14] <@naiya> Like I said before, it varies both with each person and can vary with each WILD. [19:15] <@naiya> However, with a lot of experience you will be able to pick up on your body's subtle clues and feelings and be able to navigate the transition. [19:15] == canadianbif [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:15] <@naiya> For me, the transition feels a lot like when my car changes gears [19:15] <@naiya> I literally feel my mind changing gears, and I feel that my consciousness is moving or changing. It's very interesting. [19:15] <quorthonafull> wow [19:16] <@naiya> In any case, for a beginner you want to focus mainly on any kind of SP or HH. [19:16] <Rush2112> I must get vibrations often because I remember one time during the night when I was going back to sleep and I felt intense vibrations. It was relaxing [19:16] <@naiya> If and when you get vibrations, it's important to stay calm--getting too excited will break you out of SP and you may or may not be able to fall back into it. [19:17] <atras> i never get vibrations but i cant move my body [19:17] <Rush2112> But I never have noticed SP. [19:17] <@naiya> Yup, Rush, that's because your body enters that state of paralysis every time it enters REM, so getting SP by accident upon falling asleep or waking up is very common. [19:18] <@naiya> The term SP itself refers to the experience of feeling the paralysis, which means not being able to move, vibrations, heaviness, pressure on the chest, ect. [19:18] <Rush2112> I have felt vibrations, but never paralysis. Does that mean I have had it then? [19:18] <atras> do u "have" to feel vibrations [19:18] <@naiya> If you felt vibrations, then you were in SP [19:18] <atras> cuz i never do but i feel aton of other things [19:18] <Rush2112> Weird, lol [19:18] <@naiya> if you were moving during the vibrations, it was your dream body [19:19] <@naiya> It can be really hard to tell, but yeah. If you physically move at all, it breaks SP and vibrations stop. [19:19] == aspirationrealized [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:19] <quorthonafull> So, I think I've had SP too [19:19] <aspirationrealized> o0 [19:19] <atras> do u have to feel vibrations to be in SP [19:19] <@naiya> Ok, the vibrations for me normally feel like I'm a tuning fork and someone just hit me [19:19] <aspirationrealized> you're not the Rush I know, are you? [19:19] <aspirationrealized> IBS? [19:19] <@naiya> no, you don't always feel vibrations in SP. [19:19] <@naiya> Sometimes, you just can't move and you have HH or whatever. [19:19] * aspirationrealized sits in the back of the class [19:20] <@naiya> sometimes the vibrations are only one part of your body [19:20] <@naiya> Sometimes the vibrations are really intense and almost painful. You can get ringing or roaring noises in your ears from it. [19:20] <atras> like i cant move and i feel numb and light and sometimes i feel a surge but no vibrationslol [19:20] <@naiya> that's fine [19:20] <@naiya> it sounds like it probably is SP. [19:20] <@naiya> you don't HAVE to get vibrations, like I said. [19:20] <canadianbif> ive never felt anything cuz ive never hit that stage [19:20] <atras> ok cool [19:20] <@naiya> Some people don't get them [19:21] <Rush2112> I've had my hand lose feeling (it's under a pillow and it ceases to feel the pillow touching it) but I can still movie it at will. [19:21] <@naiya> So just because you don't get vibrations, don't assume you aren't going to be able to WILD [19:21] <Rush2112> What's that about? [19:21] <@naiya> Rush, probably your hand is falling asleep [19:21] <Rush2112> aha [19:21] <@naiya> putting it under your pillow is bad for its circulation [19:21] <@naiya> I know because I do it too, lol. [19:21] <Rush2112> [19:21] <quorthonafull> lol [19:22] <@naiya> it can also help cause carpal tunnel later on, fyo [19:22] <@naiya> fyi* [19:22] <@naiya> anywho xD [19:22] <canadianbif> yeah carpal tunnel ftl [19:22] <Rush2112> That sucks... [19:22] <@naiya> Ok, so the most important thing to do when you think you are transitioning--relax even MORE than you have. [19:23] <@naiya> don't get excited...just relax...passively pay attention to any images or sounds or sensations, and imagine that you are already in a dream [19:23] <@naiya> This will help you transition more smoothly. [19:24] <aspirationrealized> a good friend of mine... [19:24] <aspirationrealized> said that awareness should not be necessarily on the self, but the surroundings [19:24] <aspirationrealized> do you agree with that? [19:24] <atras> thts wht awareness is lol :p [19:24] <@naiya> You may also want to 1. visualize yourself in a recent dream you had (because recent=better memory of it), 2. imagine a scene to dream in, or 3. if you see any images, just watch them passively and don't focus too much on them. [19:24] <@naiya> Aspir: yes, I really do. [19:25] <aspirationrealized> he said eventually you "become part of the surroundings" [19:25] <aspirationrealized> which sounded odd to me [19:25] <atras> 0.o [19:25] <@naiya> Deep stuff [19:25] <@naiya> But yeah, he is right--you don't want to be too focused on how your physical body is feeling [19:25] <@naiya> for example, itches, swallowing, positioning, ect. [19:26] <atras> ITCHES SUCK! [19:26] <@naiya> if you feel SP, then passively pay attention [19:26] <@naiya> but ideally, you want to have your attention on any visions or sounds or other non-physical sensations you get. [19:26] <Rush2112> I ALWAYS have a swallow reflex [19:26] <Rush2112> It's annoyin [19:26] <Rush2112> g [19:26] <@naiya> OK, to get rid of swallowing-- [19:26] <atras> if u swalow is tht bad [19:27] <@naiya> put your head on an incline [19:27] <@naiya> for example, use a really fluffy pillow or two pillows. [19:27] <atras> will swallowing like ruin it tho [19:27] <@naiya> this way, saliva will drain naturally and you won't swallow [19:27] <@naiya> swallowing won't ruin it. just swallow. [19:27] == Serenity [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:27] == mode/#DVA [+o Serenity] by DreamBot [19:27] <@Serenity> har... sorry for the lateness [19:27] <@naiya> eventually when you transition, you'll stop swallowing naturally [19:27] <quorthonafull> hi! [19:27] <@naiya> np [19:27] * aspirationrealized waves non-distractedly to Seren [19:28] <@naiya> like I said though, if you can sleep using 2 pillows, do that. [19:28] == shiraniaori [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:28] <@naiya> OK...other common weird things during this phase. [19:28] <@naiya> A lot of times I get tunnel vision [19:28] <shiraniaori> Hello, it was my moms birthday, glad to still have some time here though [19:28] <atras> um...how can u get tunnel vision if u cant see :p [19:28] <quorthonafull> Hi shi [19:28] * Serenity hugs aspir [19:28] <@naiya> like I think I can see a scene or place, but it's really far away. And when I focus on it, it disappars. [19:29] <atras> ohhh i seee [19:29] <atras> hey brb [19:29] <@naiya> Hi shiran [19:29] * aspirationrealized smiles [19:29] == atras [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [19:29] <@naiya> So if this ever happens to any of you, the best thing is to relax and not focus directly on it [19:29] <Rush2112> In the imagery right before my WILD I could see clearly through a tiny circle in the center and the rest was blurry, but it wasn't really depth [19:29] <@naiya> the scene will gradually fill up more and more of your vision [19:29] <@naiya> yup, that sounds like this, Rush [19:30] <aspirationrealized> Billybob said its like being covered in bird seed [19:30] <@naiya> It's veeery common to have issues with seeing properly at first. [19:30] <aspirationrealized> and waiting for a bird to come down and eat some [19:30] <aspirationrealized> but if you move, you'll scare them away [19:30] <@naiya> hehehe nice. [19:30] <canadianbif> rc? [19:31] <@naiya> Anywho [19:31] <@naiya> At the end of the transition phase, usually the vibrations and other things will fade away [19:31] <@naiya> this is NOT a failed WILD--don't try to wake up from it! [19:32] <@Serenity> i have troubles keeping an image in my head at all [19:32] <@naiya> This is usually the last stop before the dream actually begins. [19:32] == atras [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:32] <atras> im bak [19:32] <@naiya> Serenity: if that's the case, you can relax and see if any images or sensations come on their own [19:32] <@naiya> wb [19:33] <@naiya> Again, when SP fades, relax [19:33] <@naiya> If you see all blackness, slowly imagine that you can see what would be in front of you [19:33] <@naiya> Slowly open your eyes. You are very likely already in the WILD. Be sure to RC! [19:34] <@naiya> This part is tricky because you might think you failed when you're actually dreaming [19:34] <atras> so if u get out of sp and its still black ur lucid? [19:34] <@naiya> Atras: usually, yes, but the only way to tell for sure is to get the dream visuals and get into it [19:34] == Sean999 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:35] <@naiya> in other words if you get the blackness, get up, and you're awake, then you probably broke out of SP somehow. [19:35] * aspirationrealized waves undistractingly to Sean [19:35] <@naiya> So every time you WILD it is important to RC! [19:35] <aspirationrealized> Naiya... [19:35] <@naiya> RC when you get up [19:35] <@naiya> Mhm? [19:35] <aspirationrealized> will you "feel" different? as in, will it feel dreamy, assuming you know what dreamy feels like? [19:36] <@naiya> Aspir: sometimes yes, sometimes now [19:36] <@naiya> not* [19:36] <@naiya> WILDs are notoriously realistic. [19:36] <aspirationrealized> hm. I might tell you something later. anyway I won't derail [19:36] <@naiya> mk [19:36] <atras> so more reaalistic than a DILD? [19:36] * Serenity hugs Sean! [19:37] <@naiya> Atras: most people would say yes--however, I have had DILDs that were just as vivid and realistic as my WILDs. [19:37] <@naiya> OK, on to the final stage of the WILD: Stabilization. [19:37] <atras> DUN DUN DUNNNNNN [19:38] <@naiya> The easiest thing I like to do is touch dream objects--namely, the walls. [19:38] <@naiya> I touch them as I move through the place. A lot of times it's dark, I have inky vision, ect. [19:38] <@naiya> Touching the walls grounds me and keeps me focused on the dream sensations instead of physical senses. [19:39] <@naiya> If your vision is still bad, try shouting "clarity NOW!" [19:39] <atras> normally when i leave a building and go outside it becomes light [19:39] <@naiya> finally, if it's dark and I'm inside, I usually go through the door or window outside. For some reason, a lot of times my dream will suddenly become clear and vivid, then [19:39] <atras> lol ya [19:39] <@naiya> yup glad to know it's not just me! [19:40] <atras> haah [19:40] <quorthonafull> lol superliminal [19:40] <shiraniaori> lol [19:40] <@naiya> You can also try rubbing your hands, eating things, ect. [19:40] <Sean999> My room is sooo scary when I enter from a WILD [19:40] <atras> SPINNING [19:40] <@naiya> anything that focuses you on the dream senses will stabilize the dream. [19:40] <@naiya> Spinning works for some, yes [19:40] <aspirationrealized> nothing that says "eat me" or "drink me" though [19:40] <@naiya> personally it wakes me up--I dunno why xD [19:40] <atras> imagine a pepsi :p [19:40] <shiraniaori> lawl, alice in wonderland referance? [19:41] <@naiya> Ok, if you are in the WILD, you can see the dream, and you have trouble moving [19:41] <atras> no...... [19:41] <shiraniaori> Meant to aspir [19:41] <aspirationrealized> yes. [19:41] <quorthonafull> a Pepsi, like I did today... [19:41] <atras> lol oh [19:41] <atras> yeppppp [19:42] == Alex [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [19:42] <shiraniaori> I imagine cherry cokes.... [19:42] <@naiya> Calm down, breathe deeply and slowly...and keep trying to move (if in bed). It may take several minutes, but keep trying. you may also try visualizing the wall or door in front of you to teleport yourself standing across the room. [19:42] <atras> ya i see alotta random doors in my dreams tht arent attatched to walls [19:42] <@Serenity> i had that once.... was in a fairly vivid HI and my legs were all stiff [19:42] <@naiya> When you have trouble walking around, you can try putting skates on your feet, or jump up and try flying instead. [19:43] == Alex [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:43] == mode/#DVA [+o Alex] by DreamBot [19:43] <@Serenity> my DG was there, trying to help me walk [19:43] <@naiya> Very cool, Serenity. [19:43] <aspirationrealized> rocket powered wheelchair [19:43] <@naiya> lol there you go. [19:43] <@Serenity> it didn't end up turning into a full dream though... i lost it =/ [19:43] <atras> grow wings [19:43] <@naiya> Anyway, that pretty much sums up today's lecture. Kinda short today [19:43] <@naiya> Anyone have any questions? [19:43] <aspirationrealized> well [19:43] <quorthonafull> wow [19:44] <aspirationrealized> I wanted to address something atras talked about [19:44] <aspirationrealized> if I may [19:44] <@naiya> go for it [19:44] <atras> hm? [19:44] <aspirationrealized> of course, I'm all theory, I've never been lucid [19:44] <aspirationrealized> but he (she?) mentioned the difference in clarity in DILDs and WILDs [19:44] <aspirationrealized> to my mind, its just because WILD keeps you aware, since you were just awake. in a DILD you have to "wake up" more [19:44] <atras> ahem im a guy [19:44] <aspirationrealized> which is what Naiya is obviously capable of [19:45] <@naiya> Hmm...that's a posibility. [19:45] <@naiya> possibility* [19:45] <shiraniaori> That would make sense. My DILDs are extremely realistic, and that's mostly because I keep myself aware in my LDs [19:45] <atras> i think hes right [19:45] <@naiya> [19:45] <aspirationrealized> but again, not tested or anything. just my logic on the matter [19:45] <shiraniaori> The less awareness, the less clarity IMO. [19:45] <aspirationrealized> I had a question though, since I missed the beginning of the lecture [19:45] <aspirationrealized> when do you try to WILD? is it strictly WBTB in a REM cycle? [19:46] <@naiya> Hmm well...you have a few choices of when to WILD [19:46] <@naiya> one is, like you said, WBTB during the night [19:46] <@naiya> another is during naps [19:47] <Sean999> What is your opinion on right before bed? [19:47] <atras> ya ive had crazy experiences in naps [19:47] <@naiya> and finally, you can try to WILD after sleeping in a long time, but it might be harder for beginners because it's hard if you are too awake. [19:47] <aspirationrealized> hmm... [19:47] <aspirationrealized> so would you say that [19:47] <atras> also ive heard tht if uve been awake for a while and r really tired tht WILDS work [19:47] <atras> like awake for more than 24 hours [19:47] <aspirationrealized> a REM cycle is required to enter the dream, and that the transitional phases are the "before REM" phases, or rather, enduring through them? [19:47] <@naiya> Right before bed--I have had one WILD right as I went to bed at night, and it was terrible. Generally you don't want to try it then, because your body will be tired and it will want to go into NREM [19:48] <quorthonafull> Sleep Deprivation? [19:48] <shiraniaori> REM rebound\ [19:48] <shiraniaori> from sleep deprivation [19:48] <atras> ya thts wht i heard [19:48] <Sean999> I have another question- sorry if this was answered earlier [19:48] <atras> i tried it and fell asleep tho lol [19:48] <@Serenity> I'm still up against the same problem I'm always up against... my wall is the relaxation -> transition stage [19:48] <Sean999> Sometimes when I'm attempting to WILD, I will suddenly feel short of breath, and my heart with start pounding [19:48] <@Serenity> i just haven't figured out how to make it work for me [19:48] <@naiya> Atras: you're probably talking about REM rebound. Yes it does work, but you will first have to replenish your NREM sleep before your body will go into REM so be sure that you sleep a lot after the period of less sleep [19:49] <Sean999> And I get a sort of tightness. What is happening? [19:49] <@naiya> Sean--sounds like classic SP. [19:49] <@naiya> aka "the old hag" [19:49] <Sean999> Ah- what should I do? [19:49] <@naiya> Relax, and let it take its course [19:49] <aspirationrealized> slap a hag [19:49] <aspirationrealized> oh. or what Naiya said [19:49] <@Serenity> however, i noticed i do get closer to SP if I focus less on daydreaming and more on just relaxing deeper and deeper. [19:49] <@naiya> imagine a dream in front of you and try to WILD [19:49] <Sean999> Because usually it just goes away [19:49] <@naiya> if you ever want to break SP--focus on shaking your head. [19:49] <shiraniaori> So, jw, if you do WILD without a WBTB at night, is your WILD consisten through the night, or do you transition to different dreams as you go through the sleep cycles? [19:49] <atras> hey i gotta go..thanks for the lecture [19:50] <@Serenity> i get stronger vibrations, but then... nothing. i'm just awake, and in SP i kid you not, i can't transition to being asleep. [19:50] == atras [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [19:50] <aspirationrealized> yes my question is similar to shira's [19:50] <@naiya> <aspirationrealized> a REM cycle is required to enter the dream, and that the transitional phases are the "before REM" phases, or rather, enduring through them? [19:50] <@naiya> Not sure what you mean Aspir :d [19:50] <aspirationrealized> well [19:50] <@naiya> what transitional phases? sleep stages? [19:50] <aspirationrealized> I don't know what all the phases are [19:50] <aspirationrealized> yes [19:50] <@naiya> When you WILD, you don't go through the other sleep stages [19:50] <@naiya> you skip them [19:50] <aspirationrealized> I'm assuming you need to hit a REM to actually enter the dream [19:51] <aspirationrealized> oh [19:51] <@naiya> well, technically you'd probably go through stage 1, but yeah [19:51] <aspirationrealized> ok, but why/how? [19:51] <@naiya> if you went through the other stages, you'd lose consciousness because they are deep sleep [19:51] <aspirationrealized> I see [19:51] <@naiya> Well, when you WILD you basically try to chat the system by falling into a light sleep [19:51] <aspirationrealized> how does WILDing manage to skip though is what I wonder [19:51] <@naiya> and light sleep where you are aware = REM sleep or dream sleep [19:51] <aspirationrealized> oh, sorry XD [19:52] <@naiya> well, sometimes WILD fails and you fall into a normal sleep cycle. [19:52] <aspirationrealized> so basically... [19:52] <@naiya> Like I said, it's kind of a trick. [19:52] == Alex [[email protected]] has quit [Client exited] [19:52] <aspirationrealized> you're saying that you are... simulating a REM cycle [19:52] <aspirationrealized> when you WILD [19:52] <@naiya> Kinda, yeah. [19:52] <aspirationrealized> and fool your body into doing it [19:52] <@naiya> although if you've had plenty of sleep it's possible to naturally go right into REM [19:53] <distilled> <Question> [19:53] <@naiya> This is because you wake up after one cycle, and sort of drift back to sleep, so your body just stays in REM [19:53] <@naiya> That's what people take advantage of to DEILD [19:53] <@naiya> distilled: yup? [19:53] <distilled> a little off topic but i sometimes eat within half an hour of going to bed. Does a full stomach at bedtime have and affect later on when you're trying to WILD? [19:54] <@naiya> IT shouldn't, nope. [19:54] <@naiya> [19:49] <shiraniaori> So, jw, if you do WILD without a WBTB at night, is your WILD consisten through the night, or do you transition to different dreams as you go through the sleep cycles? [19:54] <@naiya> Can you clarify? Do you mean WILD when you first go to bed at night? [19:54] <shiraniaori> yeah [19:54] <@naiya> And successfully WILD? [19:54] <@naiya> Well, no, you don't go through the other sleep stages. [19:55] <@naiya> You pretty much only dream in REM [19:55] <shiraniaori> I know people have done it, but I've never heard how long they were [19:55] <@naiya> there ARE NREM dreams but they tend to be mostly fleeting images, and not what we tend to think of as dreams. [19:55] <@naiya> I have done it once like I said [19:55] <@naiya> It was like any other WILD--I went into the WILD, and I woke up when it was over. [19:55] <shiraniaori> Kk, thanks [19:55] <@naiya> It is nearly impossible to be conscious in the deep sleep stages. [19:56] <@naiya> Pretty much only done by monks [19:56] <Sean999> One more thing to clear up - should I fight the shortness of breath by trying to take longer breaths or take short, quick breaths? [19:56] <@naiya> Sean: don't fight it, just try to stay calm. If you're unable to breathe deeply, then just try to relax. [19:56] <Sean999> Okay, so should I just breathe as normally as possible? [19:57] <@naiya> If you feel really uncomfortable in the SP and feel you're not getting enough oxygen, you can just break out of the SP [19:57] <@naiya> yeah [19:57] <Sean999> Okay, thanks! [19:57] <shiraniaori> Also, since me and Aspir missed the beginning, could you put up the chat log now, or would you rather wait for the end of questions? [19:57] <@naiya> I can post it now if you wish.

[Mancon]

In this lecture we covered the transition and stabilization phases. This is the last lecture in the course. Spoiler for Lecture 3: Status#DVX#LucidDreamingX#DVAX (no topic set) [18:46] == naiya [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [18:46] == mode/#DVA [+o naiya] by DreamBot [18:46] == Alex [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [18:46] == mode/#DVA [+y Alex] by irc.dreamviews.com [18:46] == mode/#DVA [+o Alex] by DreamBot [18:47] <atras> oh hey naiya [18:47] <@naiya> hi [18:48] <atras> just wondering, how often do you WILD? [18:51] <@naiya> normally, once or twice a week. [18:51] <@naiya> I've gotten terrible out of practice in the last month or so though, because I traveled a lot. [18:52] <@naiya> My most recent one was...about 5 days ago [18:52] <atras> how long does it normally take u to do it [18:53] <@naiya> it varies, but usually less than 10 minutes o.o [18:53] <@naiya> sometimes as long as 30 [18:53] <atras> >.< lol i give up after 45 minutes [18:53] <atras> every time [18:54] <@naiya> aww [18:54] <@naiya> it takes a lot of practice [18:54] <@naiya> have you had a successful WILD before, or not yet? [18:54] <atras> nah [18:55] <atras> only DILDS [18:55] <atras> it gets rlly frusturating after spending alotta time on it lol but im inconsistent [18:55] <@naiya> aww yeah....consistency is key for LDing. [18:55] <@naiya> And WILD takes practice--especially getting that first one. [18:56] <@naiya> because each person has to learn what it feels like for their body to go through that transition [18:56] <atras> ya..is it normal to not have visual hallucinations? cuz i always get to sp but i never see anything [18:56] <@naiya> yeah, it's normal...some people don't get them [18:57] <atras> lol ok thts good [18:57] <@naiya> sometimes when I WILD, there's no HI, no SP, just BAM suddenly I'm in the dream [18:57] <@naiya> usually with those it's more like a DEILD, though. [18:57] <atras> do u normally have to open ur eyes cuz sometimes i feel like im in a dream but im afraid to open my eyes, and when i hold my breathe in a dream i cant breathe [19:00] <@naiya> hmm well...normally I don't need to open my eyes because the images of the dream just come [19:00] <atras> ok then maybe im just overthinking it lol [19:00] == distilled [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:00] <@naiya> hi [19:00] <atras> hello [19:00] <distilled> hi [19:00] <@naiya> yeah, probably [19:01] <@naiya> I'd say, don't worry about it [19:01] <@naiya> if you open your eyes and they're your physical eyes, then you weren't relaxed enough in the first place. [19:01] <atras> is it bad to WILD when im like half asleep [19:01] <@naiya> Because once you hit SP you won't be able to open your physical eyes anyway [19:01] <@naiya> you can try [19:01] <atras> i mean ive dont it alot [19:02] <@naiya> It's better to be awake enough that you can maintain consciousness, though. [19:02] <atras> i just wake up and just try to WILD right then [19:02] == Rush2112 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:02] <Rush2112> Hey [19:02] <Rush2112> I am here. [19:02] <atras> hi [19:02] <@naiya> Hmm well...you may want to get up for a few minutes first, then. [19:02] <Rush2112> I had a WILD!! On Tuesday! [19:02] <@naiya> Rush: congrats! [19:02] <atras> CONGRATS [19:02] <Rush2112> It was so weird though... [19:02] <atras> how so [19:02] <Rush2112> First of all, it was accidental [19:03] <Rush2112> I had just finished actually trying and failed [19:03] <Rush2112> So I rolled over [19:03] <Rush2112> And then there was a break in awareness between me drifting off and the vibrations starting [19:03] <atras> thts happened to me before, xcept i didnt get lucid [19:03] <Rush2112> Like, I remember rolling over to go to sleep but I don't remember anything except for the middle of the daydream and vibrations starting [19:03] <@naiya> Wow, nice [19:04] <Rush2112> And then from there I was aware [19:04] <Rush2112> Kind of like the vibrations jolted awareness back into me [19:04] <Rush2112> It was cool, I ended up in my bed and I just knew I was dreaming. My legs were floating up from under the covers and stuff. [19:04] <atras> oh ya also Naiya, how long after u fall asleep do u normally WILD [19:05] <Rush2112> If it helps, mine took place about 6 and a half hours after [19:05] <@naiya> for me? like....7-8 hours, sometimes 9-10 hours [19:05] <atras> hmm ya i normally do like 4 hours which might be why i fail [19:05] <@naiya> I have much better luck after getting a full night's sleep [19:05] <Rush2112> I have a question Naiya [19:05] <@naiya> yup? [19:06] <@naiya> the timing of the WBTB is different for everyone, so each person must experiment and see what time is best for them [19:06] <Rush2112> After I got out of bed, it was like my angle of vision was locked at a sideways angle [19:06] <Rush2112> As if I was seeing from the position I was *actually* sleeping in despite my dream body being up and about [19:06] <@naiya> hmm xD interesting. [19:06] == quorthonafull [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:06] <atras> does the fact tht its morning like 8 oclock or so make it hard to WILD [19:06] <@naiya> hi [19:06] <quorthonafull> hi [19:06] <Rush2112> What should I do to fix that? It was also incredibly blurry and unvivid and I woke up so quickly [19:07] <@naiya> Atras: it depends. If you have a hard time sleeping when it's light out, then yes. If not, then no [19:07] <atras> was it ur first wild [19:07] <Rush2112> Yeah [19:07] <atras> my first wild was messed up to [19:07] <@naiya> Rush: it's very very common for your first WILDs to be blurry like that. [19:07] <@naiya> I will actually be talking about that in today's lecture, so don't worry. [19:07] <atras> itll prolly get better next time [19:07] <Rush2112> What's frustrating is that, because I wasn't trying to have a WILD, I don't know what I did to achieve it. [19:07] <Rush2112> I know that when vibrations started I was daydreaming, that's it. [19:07] <@naiya> There are ways to stabilize the dream and get rid of the blurriness so don't worry. [19:08] <atras> SPINNNNNNNNNNNnnn [19:08] <atras> works for me [19:08] <@naiya> Hmm, only a few people today << [19:08] <@naiya> Spinning is one way [19:08] <atras> and i take deep breaths and tell myself to breathe [19:08] <@naiya> I prefer rubbing my hands and touching dream objects. [19:08] <@naiya> deep breathing is also very good [19:08] <Rush2112> Thing was, it was so damn hard to move [19:08] <atras> ya :p [19:09] <Rush2112> I couldn't control my dream body. [19:09] <Rush2112> But I DID telekinetically open a door, so... that's just weird. [19:09] <atras> interesting.. [19:09] <quorthonafull> hmmm... [19:09] <atras> ya i wudnt fret prolly just a first ld experience [19:09] <@naiya> Aww yeah if that happens, you can try focusing on one body part, like a finger or hand. Wiggle it around for a few seconds, then your whole arm, then your head, ect ect [19:09] <Rush2112> I have a dream-gift in telekinesis though, I levitated my guitar in my first LD xD [19:10] <@naiya> You will get better at control and all that stuff with practice, so don't worry ^_^ [19:10] <distilled> does eating before going to bed affect WILDing? [19:10] <Rush2112> Ok XD [19:10] <atras> lol i flew easily [19:10] <@naiya> ooh awesome. [19:10] <Rush2112> I flew in my second LD as well [19:10] <Rush2112> It came so naturally to me. [19:10] <atras> i thot u sed tht was ur first lol [19:10] <Rush2112> No, first WILD [19:10] <atras> ohhhh [19:11] <Rush2112> Technically I've had four, but they've all been unstable, half-lucid and bluury as hell. Except for the WILD, that was full lucidity. [19:11] <quorthonafull> I've summoned a Pepsi in a LD today [19:11] <atras> i read [19:11] <atras> lol [19:11] <Rush2112> Cool [19:11] <atras> was it good? did u taste it :p [19:11] <quorthonafull> It was great [19:11] <atras> lol nice [19:12] <Rush2112> My subconcious made up a drug in a dream once, Indian Lau or something weird like that [19:12] <@naiya> interesting xD [19:12] <Rush2112> I want to try it in an LD and be surprised by its effects [19:12] <quorthonafull> lol [19:12] <@naiya> OK...we better get started. [19:12] <atras> lol my lds have been prety boring xcept teh last one [19:12] <@naiya> It's almost a quarter past. [19:12] <Rush2112> K, sorry. [19:12] <@naiya> Today we're going to cover probably the most important phase--transition. And also the last phase, stabilization. [19:14] <@naiya> OK, so the hallmark signs of transition are SP and HH [19:14] <@naiya> Like I said before, it varies both with each person and can vary with each WILD. [19:15] <@naiya> However, with a lot of experience you will be able to pick up on your body's subtle clues and feelings and be able to navigate the transition. [19:15] == canadianbif [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:15] <@naiya> For me, the transition feels a lot like when my car changes gears [19:15] <@naiya> I literally feel my mind changing gears, and I feel that my consciousness is moving or changing. It's very interesting. [19:15] <quorthonafull> wow [19:16] <@naiya> In any case, for a beginner you want to focus mainly on any kind of SP or HH. [19:16] <Rush2112> I must get vibrations often because I remember one time during the night when I was going back to sleep and I felt intense vibrations. It was relaxing [19:16] <@naiya> If and when you get vibrations, it's important to stay calm--getting too excited will break you out of SP and you may or may not be able to fall back into it. [19:17] <atras> i never get vibrations but i cant move my body [19:17] <Rush2112> But I never have noticed SP. [19:17] <@naiya> Yup, Rush, that's because your body enters that state of paralysis every time it enters REM, so getting SP by accident upon falling asleep or waking up is very common. [19:18] <@naiya> The term SP itself refers to the experience of feeling the paralysis, which means not being able to move, vibrations, heaviness, pressure on the chest, ect. [19:18] <Rush2112> I have felt vibrations, but never paralysis. Does that mean I have had it then? [19:18] <atras> do u "have" to feel vibrations [19:18] <@naiya> If you felt vibrations, then you were in SP [19:18] <atras> cuz i never do but i feel aton of other things [19:18] <Rush2112> Weird, lol [19:18] <@naiya> if you were moving during the vibrations, it was your dream body [19:19] <@naiya> It can be really hard to tell, but yeah. If you physically move at all, it breaks SP and vibrations stop. [19:19] == aspirationrealized [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:19] <quorthonafull> So, I think I've had SP too [19:19] <aspirationrealized> o0 [19:19] <atras> do u have to feel vibrations to be in SP [19:19] <@naiya> Ok, the vibrations for me normally feel like I'm a tuning fork and someone just hit me [19:19] <aspirationrealized> you're not the Rush I know, are you? [19:19] <aspirationrealized> IBS? [19:19] <@naiya> no, you don't always feel vibrations in SP. [19:19] <@naiya> Sometimes, you just can't move and you have HH or whatever. [19:19] * aspirationrealized sits in the back of the class [19:20] <@naiya> sometimes the vibrations are only one part of your body [19:20] <@naiya> Sometimes the vibrations are really intense and almost painful. You can get ringing or roaring noises in your ears from it. [19:20] <atras> like i cant move and i feel numb and light and sometimes i feel a surge but no vibrationslol [19:20] <@naiya> that's fine [19:20] <@naiya> it sounds like it probably is SP. [19:20] <@naiya> you don't HAVE to get vibrations, like I said. [19:20] <canadianbif> ive never felt anything cuz ive never hit that stage [19:20] <atras> ok cool [19:20] <@naiya> Some people don't get them [19:21] <Rush2112> I've had my hand lose feeling (it's under a pillow and it ceases to feel the pillow touching it) but I can still movie it at will. [19:21] <@naiya> So just because you don't get vibrations, don't assume you aren't going to be able to WILD [19:21] <Rush2112> What's that about? [19:21] <@naiya> Rush, probably your hand is falling asleep [19:21] <Rush2112> aha [19:21] <@naiya> putting it under your pillow is bad for its circulation [19:21] <@naiya> I know because I do it too, lol. [19:21] <Rush2112> [19:21] <quorthonafull> lol [19:22] <@naiya> it can also help cause carpal tunnel later on, fyo [19:22] <@naiya> fyi* [19:22] <@naiya> anywho xD [19:22] <canadianbif> yeah carpal tunnel ftl [19:22] <Rush2112> That sucks... [19:22] <@naiya> Ok, so the most important thing to do when you think you are transitioning--relax even MORE than you have. [19:23] <@naiya> don't get excited...just relax...passively pay attention to any images or sounds or sensations, and imagine that you are already in a dream [19:23] <@naiya> This will help you transition more smoothly. [19:24] <aspirationrealized> a good friend of mine... [19:24] <aspirationrealized> said that awareness should not be necessarily on the self, but the surroundings [19:24] <aspirationrealized> do you agree with that? [19:24] <atras> thts wht awareness is lol :p [19:24] <@naiya> You may also want to 1. visualize yourself in a recent dream you had (because recent=better memory of it), 2. imagine a scene to dream in, or 3. if you see any images, just watch them passively and don't focus too much on them. [19:24] <@naiya> Aspir: yes, I really do. [19:25] <aspirationrealized> he said eventually you "become part of the surroundings" [19:25] <aspirationrealized> which sounded odd to me [19:25] <atras> 0.o [19:25] <@naiya> Deep stuff [19:25] <@naiya> But yeah, he is right--you don't want to be too focused on how your physical body is feeling [19:25] <@naiya> for example, itches, swallowing, positioning, ect. [19:26] <atras> ITCHES SUCK! [19:26] <@naiya> if you feel SP, then passively pay attention [19:26] <@naiya> but ideally, you want to have your attention on any visions or sounds or other non-physical sensations you get. [19:26] <Rush2112> I ALWAYS have a swallow reflex [19:26] <Rush2112> It's annoyin [19:26] <Rush2112> g [19:26] <@naiya> OK, to get rid of swallowing-- [19:26] <atras> if u swalow is tht bad [19:27] <@naiya> put your head on an incline [19:27] <@naiya> for example, use a really fluffy pillow or two pillows. [19:27] <atras> will swallowing like ruin it tho [19:27] <@naiya> this way, saliva will drain naturally and you won't swallow [19:27] <@naiya> swallowing won't ruin it. just swallow. [19:27] == Serenity [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:27] == mode/#DVA [+o Serenity] by DreamBot [19:27] <@Serenity> har... sorry for the lateness [19:27] <@naiya> eventually when you transition, you'll stop swallowing naturally [19:27] <quorthonafull> hi! [19:27] <@naiya> np [19:27] * aspirationrealized waves non-distractedly to Seren [19:28] <@naiya> like I said though, if you can sleep using 2 pillows, do that. [19:28] == shiraniaori [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:28] <@naiya> OK...other common weird things during this phase. [19:28] <@naiya> A lot of times I get tunnel vision [19:28] <shiraniaori> Hello, it was my moms birthday, glad to still have some time here though [19:28] <atras> um...how can u get tunnel vision if u cant see :p [19:28] <quorthonafull> Hi shi [19:28] * Serenity hugs aspir [19:28] <@naiya> like I think I can see a scene or place, but it's really far away. And when I focus on it, it disappars. [19:29] <atras> ohhh i seee [19:29] <atras> hey brb [19:29] <@naiya> Hi shiran [19:29] * aspirationrealized smiles [19:29] == atras [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [19:29] <@naiya> So if this ever happens to any of you, the best thing is to relax and not focus directly on it [19:29] <Rush2112> In the imagery right before my WILD I could see clearly through a tiny circle in the center and the rest was blurry, but it wasn't really depth [19:29] <@naiya> the scene will gradually fill up more and more of your vision [19:29] <@naiya> yup, that sounds like this, Rush [19:30] <aspirationrealized> Billybob said its like being covered in bird seed [19:30] <@naiya> It's veeery common to have issues with seeing properly at first. [19:30] <aspirationrealized> and waiting for a bird to come down and eat some [19:30] <aspirationrealized> but if you move, you'll scare them away [19:30] <@naiya> hehehe nice. [19:30] <canadianbif> rc? [19:31] <@naiya> Anywho [19:31] <@naiya> At the end of the transition phase, usually the vibrations and other things will fade away [19:31] <@naiya> this is NOT a failed WILD--don't try to wake up from it! [19:32] <@Serenity> i have troubles keeping an image in my head at all [19:32] <@naiya> This is usually the last stop before the dream actually begins. [19:32] == atras [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:32] <atras> im bak [19:32] <@naiya> Serenity: if that's the case, you can relax and see if any images or sensations come on their own [19:32] <@naiya> wb [19:33] <@naiya> Again, when SP fades, relax [19:33] <@naiya> If you see all blackness, slowly imagine that you can see what would be in front of you [19:33] <@naiya> Slowly open your eyes. You are very likely already in the WILD. Be sure to RC! [19:34] <@naiya> This part is tricky because you might think you failed when you're actually dreaming [19:34] <atras> so if u get out of sp and its still black ur lucid? [19:34] <@naiya> Atras: usually, yes, but the only way to tell for sure is to get the dream visuals and get into it [19:34] == Sean999 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:35] <@naiya> in other words if you get the blackness, get up, and you're awake, then you probably broke out of SP somehow. [19:35] * aspirationrealized waves undistractingly to Sean [19:35] <@naiya> So every time you WILD it is important to RC! [19:35] <aspirationrealized> Naiya... [19:35] <@naiya> RC when you get up [19:35] <@naiya> Mhm? [19:35] <aspirationrealized> will you "feel" different? as in, will it feel dreamy, assuming you know what dreamy feels like? [19:36] <@naiya> Aspir: sometimes yes, sometimes now [19:36] <@naiya> not* [19:36] <@naiya> WILDs are notoriously realistic. [19:36] <aspirationrealized> hm. I might tell you something later. anyway I won't derail [19:36] <@naiya> mk [19:36] <atras> so more reaalistic than a DILD? [19:36] * Serenity hugs Sean! [19:37] <@naiya> Atras: most people would say yes--however, I have had DILDs that were just as vivid and realistic as my WILDs. [19:37] <@naiya> OK, on to the final stage of the WILD: Stabilization. [19:37] <atras> DUN DUN DUNNNNNN [19:38] <@naiya> The easiest thing I like to do is touch dream objects--namely, the walls. [19:38] <@naiya> I touch them as I move through the place. A lot of times it's dark, I have inky vision, ect. [19:38] <@naiya> Touching the walls grounds me and keeps me focused on the dream sensations instead of physical senses. [19:39] <@naiya> If your vision is still bad, try shouting "clarity NOW!" [19:39] <atras> normally when i leave a building and go outside it becomes light [19:39] <@naiya> finally, if it's dark and I'm inside, I usually go through the door or window outside. For some reason, a lot of times my dream will suddenly become clear and vivid, then [19:39] <atras> lol ya [19:39] <@naiya> yup glad to know it's not just me! [19:40] <atras> haah [19:40] <quorthonafull> lol superliminal [19:40] <shiraniaori> lol [19:40] <@naiya> You can also try rubbing your hands, eating things, ect. [19:40] <Sean999> My room is sooo scary when I enter from a WILD [19:40] <atras> SPINNING [19:40] <@naiya> anything that focuses you on the dream senses will stabilize the dream. [19:40] <@naiya> Spinning works for some, yes [19:40] <aspirationrealized> nothing that says "eat me" or "drink me" though [19:40] <@naiya> personally it wakes me up--I dunno why xD [19:40] <atras> imagine a pepsi :p [19:40] <shiraniaori> lawl, alice in wonderland referance? [19:41] <@naiya> Ok, if you are in the WILD, you can see the dream, and you have trouble moving [19:41] <atras> no...... [19:41] <shiraniaori> Meant to aspir [19:41] <aspirationrealized> yes. [19:41] <quorthonafull> a Pepsi, like I did today... [19:41] <atras> lol oh [19:41] <atras> yeppppp [19:42] == Alex [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [19:42] <shiraniaori> I imagine cherry cokes.... [19:42] <@naiya> Calm down, breathe deeply and slowly...and keep trying to move (if in bed). It may take several minutes, but keep trying. you may also try visualizing the wall or door in front of you to teleport yourself standing across the room. [19:42] <atras> ya i see alotta random doors in my dreams tht arent attatched to walls [19:42] <@Serenity> i had that once.... was in a fairly vivid HI and my legs were all stiff [19:42] <@naiya> When you have trouble walking around, you can try putting skates on your feet, or jump up and try flying instead. [19:43] == Alex [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:43] == mode/#DVA [+o Alex] by DreamBot [19:43] <@Serenity> my DG was there, trying to help me walk [19:43] <@naiya> Very cool, Serenity. [19:43] <aspirationrealized> rocket powered wheelchair [19:43] <@naiya> lol there you go. [19:43] <@Serenity> it didn't end up turning into a full dream though... i lost it =/ [19:43] <atras> grow wings [19:43] <@naiya> Anyway, that pretty much sums up today's lecture. Kinda short today [19:43] <@naiya> Anyone have any questions? [19:43] <aspirationrealized> well [19:43] <quorthonafull> wow [19:44] <aspirationrealized> I wanted to address something atras talked about [19:44] <aspirationrealized> if I may [19:44] <@naiya> go for it [19:44] <atras> hm? [19:44] <aspirationrealized> of course, I'm all theory, I've never been lucid [19:44] <aspirationrealized> but he (she?) mentioned the difference in clarity in DILDs and WILDs [19:44] <aspirationrealized> to my mind, its just because WILD keeps you aware, since you were just awake. in a DILD you have to "wake up" more [19:44] <atras> ahem im a guy [19:44] <aspirationrealized> which is what Naiya is obviously capable of [19:45] <@naiya> Hmm...that's a posibility. [19:45] <@naiya> possibility* [19:45] <shiraniaori> That would make sense. My DILDs are extremely realistic, and that's mostly because I keep myself aware in my LDs [19:45] <atras> i think hes right [19:45] <@naiya> [19:45] <aspirationrealized> but again, not tested or anything. just my logic on the matter [19:45] <shiraniaori> The less awareness, the less clarity IMO. [19:45] <aspirationrealized> I had a question though, since I missed the beginning of the lecture [19:45] <aspirationrealized> when do you try to WILD? is it strictly WBTB in a REM cycle? [19:46] <@naiya> Hmm well...you have a few choices of when to WILD [19:46] <@naiya> one is, like you said, WBTB during the night [19:46] <@naiya> another is during naps [19:47] <Sean999> What is your opinion on right before bed? [19:47] <atras> ya ive had crazy experiences in naps [19:47] <@naiya> and finally, you can try to WILD after sleeping in a long time, but it might be harder for beginners because it's hard if you are too awake. [19:47] <aspirationrealized> hmm... [19:47] <aspirationrealized> so would you say that [19:47] <atras> also ive heard tht if uve been awake for a while and r really tired tht WILDS work [19:47] <atras> like awake for more than 24 hours [19:47] <aspirationrealized> a REM cycle is required to enter the dream, and that the transitional phases are the "before REM" phases, or rather, enduring through them? [19:47] <@naiya> Right before bed--I have had one WILD right as I went to bed at night, and it was terrible. Generally you don't want to try it then, because your body will be tired and it will want to go into NREM [19:48] <quorthonafull> Sleep Deprivation? [19:48] <shiraniaori> REM rebound\ [19:48] <shiraniaori> from sleep deprivation [19:48] <atras> ya thts wht i heard [19:48] <Sean999> I have another question- sorry if this was answered earlier [19:48] <atras> i tried it and fell asleep tho lol [19:48] <@Serenity> I'm still up against the same problem I'm always up against... my wall is the relaxation -> transition stage [19:48] <Sean999> Sometimes when I'm attempting to WILD, I will suddenly feel short of breath, and my heart with start pounding [19:48] <@Serenity> i just haven't figured out how to make it work for me [19:48] <@naiya> Atras: you're probably talking about REM rebound. Yes it does work, but you will first have to replenish your NREM sleep before your body will go into REM so be sure that you sleep a lot after the period of less sleep [19:49] <Sean999> And I get a sort of tightness. What is happening? [19:49] <@naiya> Sean--sounds like classic SP. [19:49] <@naiya> aka "the old hag" [19:49] <Sean999> Ah- what should I do? [19:49] <@naiya> Relax, and let it take its course [19:49] <aspirationrealized> slap a hag [19:49] <aspirationrealized> oh. or what Naiya said [19:49] <@Serenity> however, i noticed i do get closer to SP if I focus less on daydreaming and more on just relaxing deeper and deeper. [19:49] <@naiya> imagine a dream in front of you and try to WILD [19:49] <Sean999> Because usually it just goes away [19:49] <@naiya> if you ever want to break SP--focus on shaking your head. [19:49] <shiraniaori> So, jw, if you do WILD without a WBTB at night, is your WILD consisten through the night, or do you transition to different dreams as you go through the sleep cycles? [19:49] <atras> hey i gotta go..thanks for the lecture [19:50] <@Serenity> i get stronger vibrations, but then... nothing. i'm just awake, and in SP i kid you not, i can't transition to being asleep. [19:50] == atras [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [19:50] <aspirationrealized> yes my question is similar to shira's [19:50] <@naiya> <aspirationrealized> a REM cycle is required to enter the dream, and that the transitional phases are the "before REM" phases, or rather, enduring through them? [19:50] <@naiya> Not sure what you mean Aspir :d [19:50] <aspirationrealized> well [19:50] <@naiya> what transitional phases? sleep stages? [19:50] <aspirationrealized> I don't know what all the phases are [19:50] <aspirationrealized> yes [19:50] <@naiya> When you WILD, you don't go through the other sleep stages [19:50] <@naiya> you skip them [19:50] <aspirationrealized> I'm assuming you need to hit a REM to actually enter the dream [19:51] <aspirationrealized> oh [19:51] <@naiya> well, technically you'd probably go through stage 1, but yeah [19:51] <aspirationrealized> ok, but why/how? [19:51] <@naiya> if you went through the other stages, you'd lose consciousness because they are deep sleep [19:51] <aspirationrealized> I see [19:51] <@naiya> Well, when you WILD you basically try to chat the system by falling into a light sleep [19:51] <aspirationrealized> how does WILDing manage to skip though is what I wonder [19:51] <@naiya> and light sleep where you are aware = REM sleep or dream sleep [19:51] <aspirationrealized> oh, sorry XD [19:52] <@naiya> well, sometimes WILD fails and you fall into a normal sleep cycle. [19:52] <aspirationrealized> so basically... [19:52] <@naiya> Like I said, it's kind of a trick. [19:52] == Alex [[email protected]] has quit [Client exited] [19:52] <aspirationrealized> you're saying that you are... simulating a REM cycle [19:52] <aspirationrealized> when you WILD [19:52] <@naiya> Kinda, yeah. [19:52] <aspirationrealized> and fool your body into doing it [19:52] <@naiya> although if you've had plenty of sleep it's possible to naturally go right into REM [19:53] <distilled> <Question> [19:53] <@naiya> This is because you wake up after one cycle, and sort of drift back to sleep, so your body just stays in REM [19:53] <@naiya> That's what people take advantage of to DEILD [19:53] <@naiya> distilled: yup? [19:53] <distilled> a little off topic but i sometimes eat within half an hour of going to bed. Does a full stomach at bedtime have and affect later on when you're trying to WILD? [19:54] <@naiya> IT shouldn't, nope. [19:54] <@naiya> [19:49] <shiraniaori> So, jw, if you do WILD without a WBTB at night, is your WILD consisten through the night, or do you transition to different dreams as you go through the sleep cycles? [19:54] <@naiya> Can you clarify? Do you mean WILD when you first go to bed at night? [19:54] <shiraniaori> yeah [19:54] <@naiya> And successfully WILD? [19:54] <@naiya> Well, no, you don't go through the other sleep stages. [19:55] <@naiya> You pretty much only dream in REM [19:55] <shiraniaori> I know people have done it, but I've never heard how long they were [19:55] <@naiya> there ARE NREM dreams but they tend to be mostly fleeting images, and not what we tend to think of as dreams. [19:55] <@naiya> I have done it once like I said [19:55] <@naiya> It was like any other WILD--I went into the WILD, and I woke up when it was over. [19:55] <shiraniaori> Kk, thanks [19:55] <@naiya> It is nearly impossible to be conscious in the deep sleep stages. [19:56] <@naiya> Pretty much only done by monks [19:56] <Sean999> One more thing to clear up - should I fight the shortness of breath by trying to take longer breaths or take short, quick breaths? [19:56] <@naiya> Sean: don't fight it, just try to stay calm. If you're unable to breathe deeply, then just try to relax. [19:56] <Sean999> Okay, so should I just breathe as normally as possible? [19:57] <@naiya> If you feel really uncomfortable in the SP and feel you're not getting enough oxygen, you can just break out of the SP [19:57] <@naiya> yeah [19:57] <Sean999> Okay, thanks! [19:57] <shiraniaori> Also, since me and Aspir missed the beginning, could you put up the chat log now, or would you rather wait for the end of questions? [19:57] <@naiya> I can post it now if you wish. Great lecture Naiya! Thanks

[Jakku]

Thanks for a great set of lectures Naiya, although I couldn't attend them I read them all here. Although I haven't had my first successful WILD yet, my attempts are far better after reading some of the tips in the lectures. All the best, Jakku.

[Naiya]

OK guys, the first week was our lectures--this week we'll be concentrating on the assignments. Please complete all of the assignments by the end of the week in order to receive your badge for completing the class! Be sure to post them in your workbook.

[kevojy]

Thanks for all the work you've done Naiya. It really helps

[Naiya]

Ty Kevojy. Updated the first post to mention that the final assignment only applies to those who have had a successful WILD before.