Thread: DVA Reorganization

Okay....so now that Shift is out, we need to start thinking about anything that needs to be changed at DVA.


Here is the plan at the moment. I will try to finish Shift's class as best I can. I'll have time off from school in a couple of weeks to do any major work on DVA. In the meantime, please give any suggestions or input or ideas about anything that should be changed.


So, what I think was done right:

Personally I think the way we started doing classes went pretty well. Lectures in chat are really fun and give students time to ask questions in real time and get clarification on things. Having DJs for students all together is also really useful, because it's easier to keep track of student DJs. The badge system is a fun idea, and gives people motivation, so I'm hoping to keep that. The syllabuses are useful because it might help us all cover the same basic info that's needed for each class, and we can all look at them to make sure we haven't forgotten anything important.

What I'm on the fence about:

Homework assignments were not too bad, however, I've never been a big believer in homework so I think that keeping it on the lighter side is best--something that takes less than ten minutes. It's helpful to have them because you can see who was paying attention and see how much people are really learning. Having a final quiz is useful for making sure people remembered the key points, and of course it gives you a solid reason to give a badge. I do have concerns of classes being too demanding of people; on the other hand, I'm not sure how much students want out of it as far as getting really involved and doing a lot for the class.


What I think needs to go:

The student applications (probably gone now anyway) are/were a little bit long, and a few of the questions were a little condescending (I think there was one like "why should you be chosen as a student?").

I think having prerequisites clogs up the whole program and slows it down. Most of my students in the intro class really didn't need it. I think the SoS and SP classes are unnecessary--they could either be combined into one short class or covered at the beginning of a WILD class.

So while we could keep the Intro class, I believe the main classes ought to be recall & Dreamsigns, DILD, WILD, and Dream Control. I would also love to see some different classes based on exploration and experimentation, for example having more adept LDers complete certain lucid tasks like trying to get the lights on in a dream.


When it comes to teaching, unless it's something solid like sleep stages, it's mostly opinion of the teacher. We shouldn't be setting ourselves as the end-all experts of anything, IMO, it could be more like an expanded adoption program, where each teacher has their own experiences and advice and knowledge to offer. I'm hoping that the profs/students will have a more friendly relationship, in that the teachers aren't putting themselves up above students.

As a whole, DVA is much too complicated and intimidating. I think it's best to keep it simple and friendly and fun.

I personally like the idea of the webinar or workshop format. Schedule a series of classes to run for a week or month. Anyone can attend and participate. No pre-requisits(sp), no formal sign up process.

A professor/student friendlier version of the program would be a nice change. Most of the things that were discussed dealt with eliminating "what if" factors, and setting a standard to who was teach classes. I think we should try to find out who would be willing to teach classes at a less stringent manner than before.

As for the homework, I still think it's good as long it's nothing too big. Like mine for dream control was to look at the current TOTM and write down how you would see yourself completing it and describe what types of control methods they would be considered. That takes like five minutes? And it also helps the student think about achieving things in lucid dreams. IMO if the homework motivates in some kind of method, and it's not super long then it should be considered, but not required for a class. Other classes like DILD/WILD ect could just use tests for badges.

As for the prereqs, they bogged down how the classes were being taught. As for SP/SOS is concerned, as long as the meat and bones of it are involved in the WILD course then I'm all for it being dissolved. If a simple syllabus to include the basics for a pre WILD course can be created I'm all for that too. I just want to stop seeing "was this SP?" on the forums at one point in time....or at least have more people that can answer them in a more knowledgeable manner. Keep in mind that these people with badges are probably going to be answering questions in the forums, and it's going to mean something to people in the on topic section.

As for the apps...all we would need is basic time available info. Unless the professor was willing to change the course time, or the professor decided to just make a post saying "blank class is going on at X, if you can make theses times and dates, post here". It's a good way of making sure that the classes will be filled with people who are willing to learn, and will show up. It will also be a good way to make sure class limit are set.

I guess it all depends on who's willing to teach once the new standards come out. Hopefully we'll end up with more people willing to teach classes than last time.

I've moved a lot of the threads from the staff area and oaks lab to the filing cabinet. They have 5 day expiring redirects on them.

EDIT:
Also I put temporary brief descriptions of threads that were stickied and now have nothing but a "."

Cool. Thanks Akono.

I'll be putting up an ammouncement sometime tonight that DVA will be going under restructuring and opening back up in a few weeks.


The application system...I don't think is such a bad thing--at the very least it helps with timezones if we'll be doing anything in-chat. But I agree that they should be much shorter. I think the more detailed questions, if we have them, can be asked in the class forums as a sort of getting-to-know-you thing for the class.

I think that some classes can be offered that don't have in-chat lectures and are entirely forum-based like workshops. That's another option. If this is done, it would still be nice to have some set times that students can go into the chatroom for Q&A sessions.


Agreed that we should be giving people basic info about sleep stages, SP, HH, and all that, especially before a WILD class. I'm just not too keen on a whole class on the subject of SP or SoS.


Seeker: I'm on the fence about that. On the one hand, I'd like to keep it completely open. On the other hand I want to have some way to keep the badges for finishing classes because I think it's a really neat idea. Personally I liked having a smaller class because I felt like the students got to know each other more and it was easy for me to interact with every single person in the class and help them inidividually. On the other hand, I don't like DVA being so restrictive about letting people into classes. I definitely think prerequisites should generally be thrown out.

Great ideas How have the classes gone, so far? Have people been committed, shown up to the lectures, and completed the homework?

I'm with Seeker, where a workshop type setup sounds more realistic. I only say that, because I don't expect much from people. It is more open, so people can follow along even if they don't want to commit. If the current system seems to be working, then lets stick with it. You guys know better than I do.

RB: I was really surprised at how active people were. Out of ten students, one of them never showed up to anything. The remaining nine averaged about 4/5 classes--only a few of them only missed one class or so. Pretty much everyone did every homework assignment and kept their journals up, and everyone got at least 8/10 on the final exam. So I would say it was pretty successful.

I'm still on the fence on the workshop stuff. On the one hand, other than a few student DJs there was really no reason to make everything so secret/private as far as the actual classes. On the other hand, there's something enticing about being allowed in special/private forums and getting badges for completing classes.

I could go either way, and I'm think there could even be a compromise between these two things, where it would be easy to join the class a person wants, but for example the Library and possibly even the Classrooms would still be invisible to other members. I dunno.

Originally Posted by Naiya

Seeker: I'm on the fence about that. On the one hand, I'd like to keep it completely open. On the other hand I want to have some way to keep the badges for finishing classes because I think it's a really neat idea. Personally I liked having a smaller class because I felt like the students got to know each other more and it was easy for me to interact with every single person in the class and help them inidividually. On the other hand, I don't like DVA being so restrictive about letting people into classes.

I feel the same way. I hope we come up with some kind of means for compromise. I know I'll sound a little bit like a broken record, but if/when we get more professors to teach classes there will be less issues revolving around how many people can get into a class.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Great ideas How have the classes gone, so far? Have people been committed, shown up to the lectures, and completed the homework?

From what I've seen, yes. The only short coming I've seen with the program student wise, is people coming to classes a little late. Other than that, it's been good on other areas such as helping boost IRC chat numbers from time to time.

Damn, I feel like I'm spamming kind of, but I got started

I just wonder how much is necessary. Like should I post the application in all the on-topic forums, or just a couple?... I don't know.

EDIT: I also wonder, if we should change the title to just "Professor Applications" instead of how I just did it as "We Need YOU!"

Don't worry about double posting.

I'm thinking the stickies should go in Attaining, Dream Control, ect. Places like BD and the newbies zone would be unnecessary. I'll probably be doing this tomorrow though, since I'll be off to bed pretty quick.

And yeah, I'll be sure to have the titles "professor applications."

Ok well I didn't know I could change them myself, so I did that already.

Thank you

Oh. That made it easy then. xD

I stickied them all.

I appreciate it Naiya

Now... what else. Do we need to create schedules for our students?

Edit: Someone should probably let staff know to carefully look over those threads occasionally because I know we've been having some issues with people who disagree with Shifts banishment.

Ok umm... so far we got nothing

I would really like to have this place start up sometime by the end of this month, but we need more professors.

Hmm, I'll try harassing PMing some people.

PMed the following:

Walms
KingYoshi
Man of Shred
Akono
Aquanina
Ames
Robot Butler
Xaqaria
Man of Steel
The Cusp
O'nus
Invisible Woman
Jeff777
slash112
Hijo de la Luna
ShadowNightWing
SpiritoftheWolf
Cloud


Pretty much all of them expressed interest in teaching at one point or another, and a couple are already on the list of teachers, but it's a good reminder to them lol.


P.S. What was the decision about classes like shared dreaming and other BD topics? Because a lot of people are asking for a shared dreaming class. If we did that, I would definitely invite Nomad and Raven to teach it.

Hmm what about Adam? I think we was going to be a professor at one point. Thank you very much for that

As for BD, I'm alright with it. I mean if people are interested in learning it, then it should be available. Especially since there seems to be quite a few people who want to learn. I wonder though, if we allow it, should we sort of inform them that parts of the subject can't be proven? Or should we just leave it alone? I understand that our community has some sort of pride in the fact that we're into science.

Maybe we should create a poll?

Hey, on the main DVA page, should we start creating new threads for the sign-in. Like "Meditation Lucid Dreams", "WILD" "DILD", etc. It's sort of easy to get lost in the general sign-in thread as waving on oceans was pointing out.

Sounds like a plan. So are we ready to launch in the next week?

Originally Posted by Naiya

Sounds like a plan. So are we ready to launch in the next week?

I think if we pick a date and let everyone know it would shape together pretty quickly. I usually work well....if I have a deadline

We just need to make sure Hijo creates that syllabus and do you happen to know who's teaching what?

I do think we should be ready.