Thread: How negative should our thoughts be?

Hey, no man, no problem

I personally think that positive thinking is delusional.

People are stupid monkeys. People think like stupid monkeys. Stupid monkeys with nuclear warheads and American Idol. People make basic logical errors all the time at all levels of thought. Most people couldn't think clearly about something to save their lives. People don't like people that can think clearly. People like to make stupid assumptions and don't like to be told that they're wrong. People think that "all X is Y implies that all Y is X." People think teleologically. Both of these are instinctual and have a solid, easily understood, evolutionary background. People then think that they don't have instincts and are better than other organisms.

Honestly, if I saw a dog or a person about to die, and I could only save one, I would save the dog every single time.

People have no compassion and only care about having fun. People are pretty much pond scum. This is why there are so many creationists in the world.

I am ashamed to be a person. It's truly a wonder that any of us can think formally at all.

The good news is that we'll probably have driven ourselves extinct in a few generations and life will be able to proceed normally.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

I personally think that positive thinking is delusional.

Say what?

Certainly optimism and positive thinking is more preferable than being a pessimistic cynic. Don't confuse those terms with being a realist, because they're not synonymous terms.

I didn't say it's unhealthy. I didn't say it's not good for you. I just said it's delusional.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

I didn't say it's unhealthy. I didn't say it's not good for you. I just said it's delusional.

To me that's no different from someone saying exercising is retarded. I'm not sure I understand why you think it's delusional.

He just has a horribly negative view of the world. I have pretty much the opposite view he does. People are smart, we are definitely not like any other animal. Most people are perfectly capable of thinking clearly and logically. People want to think clearly, and they are happy when others help explain things to them. It isn't that they hate being told their wrong, they just don't want to be made a fool out of in the process. If you are respectful about it, people will freely admit they are wrong. Some times people get confused but if you go over things step by step and help them understand, they will understand.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

To me that's no different from someone saying exercising is retarded. I'm not sure I understand why you think it's delusional.

Because no amount of positive thinking will make our species not brain dead, cruel, callous, self centered, and ugly.

Originally Posted by Alric

He just has a horribly negative view of the world. I have pretty much the opposite view he does. People are smart, we are definitely not like any other animal. Most people are perfectly capable of thinking clearly and logically. People want to think clearly, and they are happy when others help explain things to them. It isn't that they hate being told their wrong, they just don't want to be made a fool out of in the process. If you are respectful about it, people will freely admit they are wrong. Some times people get confused but if you go over things step by step and help them understand, they will understand.

I've never seen you say anything intelligent. Most people think teleologically and you do too most of the time. Most people make the "all X is Y so all Y is X" all the time. No matter how many times you point it out. Some humans are intelligent. Most are just fat asses with superb social skills that don't give a fuck about you if you don't have social skills. They then get to pretend that they're intelligent because they have a cell phone that somebody else figured out how to make.

I find it kind of ironic that you make sweeping generalizations like that, then say people are stupid because they make to many generalizations. Which is basically what you are saying when you claim they are thinking All Y is X. People often say that you see in other people, what you understand about your self. Perhaps the reason you see everyone in that way, is because you really share that same view point.

How am I making generalizations when I've said that some humans are smart? (edit: and qualified most of my statements with "most") Seriously? Tell yourself whatever you want.

Also, I am pretty slow and stupid. I'm pretty much at or just below the bottom level of acceptable intelligence. So fuck off unless you have something intelligent to say. I won't be holding my breath.

How about like this entire post you made?

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

People are stupid monkeys. People think like stupid monkeys. Stupid monkeys with nuclear warheads and American Idol. People make basic logical errors all the time at all levels of thought. Most people couldn't think clearly about something to save their lives. People don't like people that can think clearly. People like to make stupid assumptions and don't like to be told that they're wrong. People think that "all X is Y implies that all Y is X." People think teleologically. Both of these are instinctual and have a solid, easily understood, evolutionary background. People then think that they don't have instincts and are better than other organisms.

Honestly, if I saw a dog or a person about to die, and I could only save one, I would save the dog every single time.

People have no compassion and only care about having fun. People are pretty much pond scum. This is why there are so many creationists in the world.

I am ashamed to be a person. It's truly a wonder that any of us can think formally at all.

The good news is that we'll probably have driven ourselves extinct in a few generations and life will be able to proceed normally.

The entire thing is a generalization and you didn't qualify anything. The fact that you made a comment 3 posts later admitting that some people may actually be intelligent doesn't take much away from your point that you apparently think the vast majority are stupid.

Most of the statements I'm making in that post don't really need qualifying because probably less than 1% of the population is exempt from them and at any rate "people" is a general term and never applies to everyone. Even in that post, I said that "It's a wonder that any of us can think formally at all" with the clear implication that some of us are capable of formal thought, i.e. intelligent.

EDIT:

And yes, the vast majority of humans are so fucking stupid that it's nothing but instinct and the fact that we live in a society entirely shaped by instinct that allows them to function. They believe in Aristotelean physics, that .999... =/= 1, etc.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

I personally think that positive thinking is delusional.

People are stupid monkeys. People think like stupid monkeys. Stupid monkeys with nuclear warheads and American Idol. People make basic logical errors all the time at all levels of thought. Most people couldn't think clearly about something to save their lives. People don't like people that can think clearly. People like to make stupid assumptions and don't like to be told that they're wrong. People think that "all X is Y implies that all Y is X." People think teleologically. Both of these are instinctual and have a solid, easily understood, evolutionary background. People then think that they don't have instincts and are better than other organisms.

Honestly, if I saw a dog or a person about to die, and I could only save one, I would save the dog every single time.

People have no compassion and only care about having fun. People are pretty much pond scum. This is why there are so many creationists in the world.

I am ashamed to be a person. It's truly a wonder that any of us can think formally at all.

The good news is that we'll probably have driven ourselves extinct in a few generations and life will be able to proceed normally.

Goddamn thanks for fueling the fire to my misanthropy.

I have to say though, not everyone is like how you described. There are people who strive for knowledge and I think the cynicism to new ideas is a cultural (and religious) influence. I honestly agree with pretty much everything you said when I'm having a bad day but I find some beauty in the human race as well. Things are changing in a big way around the world and I am optimistic towards a better future.


And calling yourself stupid is like a skinny girl calling herself fat, you are only deluding yourself.
And Alric says intelligent things all the time compared to some other people on DV.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Also, I am pretty slow and stupid. I'm pretty much at or just below the bottom level of acceptable intelligence. So fuck off unless you have something intelligent to say. I won't be holding my breath.

Originally Posted by stormcrow

And calling yourself stupid is like a skinny girl calling herself fat, you are only deluding yourself.

He can't mean that. I don't know what his point was in saying it. Sarcasm maybe.

The fact that you are saying it is so small that it doesn't even need mentioning shows that you were generalizing it. People really are not as bad as you seem to think they are, and I am not even sure where you are getting that idea from. I don't know anyone who believes in Aristotelean physics. Most people(at least living in developed countries) have at least a basic understanding how things work. Aristotle wasn't stupid either. He was probably a very smart man, but he lived in a time where he lacked the benefit of learning from the people who came before him. People make mistakes, but that doesn't mean you are stupid.

I do find it interesting that you brought up .9999=/=1, because there was a thread about that(which I know you are aware of.) I think that thread really backs up my point. It shows that people can make logical mistakes, but that they are fully capable of learning new things, even if at first it does not seem to make sense to them. And if you look you will see that a lot of people(including myself) didn't agree at first but then later change their mind as they realize what they were doing wrong.

This is DV though, where most people have some level of introspection. In the general population, I agree with PS, that 99% of people (maybe a bit less) are incredibly stupid.

Although I also agree with stormcrow that some days I see beauty in the humans, but it's usually only the humans that are at least somewhat intelligent. I never look at a fat, lazy, and ignorant fool and see beauty.

Add me to the misanthrope list. I agree with PS that the vast majority of the human race are pretty damn stupid, and bad at thinking things through. As is also mentioned, there are evolutionary reasons for some of the biases in people's thinking, but these can be severely reduced with introspection and education.

This isn't me putting myself on a pedestal and looking down on everyone else either, just because I'm more intelligent than most. It's the position I come to when I look at the things the average person fails to grasp, or even those who are above average (like my parents). It's not that they fail to grasp something in itself - there are many things I would find extremely hard, if not impossible to understand - or make mistakes, but because so many refuse to learn from their mistakes, understand their limitations, and to learn when someone more informed tells them something. Many fail to value knowledge and intelligence despite their entire lifestyle being the product of the efforts of others in these areas.

I see government policies in my society decided primarily by these people, which is why it can be so hard for anything to be achieved politically. I see idiots fall for slogans and rhetoric, and many backwards places where others are denied rights because they are different. This still happens even in relatively enlightened places, though this is improving.

Huge elements of western culture are based around worshipping the shallow antics of 'celebrities' and people obsessed with fame, beauty, power, and wealth.

I do have a great amount of respect for those who value intelligence and reason, and those who have a desire for knowledge and to make our lives better though, but that's a pretty small section of humanity as a whole.

When you look at humanity overall from a neutral viewpoint, is there really that much to value? When I was younger I suppose I would have said that at least most people generally try to act like a decent person and show respect and courtesy to others, and whilst I would still say this is true for a fair chunk of the population, I've seen so many who fail to do this.

The thing about misanthropy is it leads to (and arguably stems from) a withdrawal from human contact and community, creating a state of isolation from which the misanthropy may never be corrected. It's a bubble mentality, and a particularly useless one.

I don't see what's wrong with that. If you don't like some people, you don't talk to them.
The same you do with anything you don't like. You're basically saying "go around talking to people you don't like that bore the shit out of you. This way avoid not talking to them". ????

I'm saying that if you walk around focused on other peoples' flaws, you're liable to clock someone with the beam jutting out of your eye, which could lead to lawsuits.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

The thing about misanthropy is it leads to (and arguably stems from) a withdrawal from human contact and community, creating a state of isolation from which the misanthropy may never be corrected. It's a bubble mentality, and a particularly useless one.

If you wanted to argue that misanthropy stems from withdrawal from human contact and "community" then you would have to ask where the withdrawal comes from in the first place.

Originally Posted by stormcrow

And calling yourself stupid is like a skinny girl calling herself fat, you are only deluding yourself.

I only seem smart because I work my ass off. I work really hard to understand stuff. There's a difference between knowing shit and being intelligent.

And Alric says intelligent things all the time compared to some other people on DV.

That's true. Sorry Alric.