Thread: Osama Bin Laden is Dead

What kind of people would celebrate the execution of a human being? That's just low. I understand that Bin Laden is responsible for the deaths of a lot of people but it is more than just disconcerting to see people's moral judgement to be so easily influenced by petty feelings like revenge, especially in a nation where a large percentage of the population purports to be oh-so-Christian.

I confess myself disappointed. Obama was not strong enough do the right thing and put Bin Laden on trial. Instead he had him killed, because he figured that it would improve his chances for a reelection. He's no better than Bush.

If it had been self-defense, it would have been different but it is clear that the team attacked the mansion with the explicit goal to execute Bin Laden. Whatever happened to international human rights law and a human being's right to a fair trial? This may sound naive given the circumstances, but a state of law cannot simply make exceptions like this and blatantly disregard the principles that civilized nations once agreed upon.

I don't know about history, but I will remember Obama as the Nobel Peace Price laureate who had someone assassinated to get more votes.

Originally Posted by illidan

What kind of people would celebrate the execution of a human being?

These people..

It was a rhetorical question.

I'm sure he knows that.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

How on Earth were they supposed to inform us? Let every single one of us dance a tango with his corpse and rub up against his shaggy beard?

You can't have a trial!!! There might be some inconvenient truths discovered! You kill the person before he goes to trial! Duh! Haven't you seen any Mafia movies?

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Yes, I was in Western India everybody laughed at me and Americans in general for believing that Bin Laden was alive. Here is a video link showing how common knowledge it is that he's been dead for a long time: PressTV - 'Bin Laden was killed years ago'

That's a funny little fact that was relayed to me not long ago. I mean, that everyone in the Middle East has believed that Osama has been dead for years. Quite curious.

The U.S.A. didn't have any evidence of his death because they are afraid that Muslims will be mad. C'mon! If we are worried what Muslims think then we should stop being the major funder of Isreal and we should get our Army out of Saudi Arabia and we should have left Iraq alone, etc. If Osama is a criminal then he should've been on trial, and only Muslim fanatics would be mildly upset. But of course, in the West here we are the only ones who don't know that he has been dead for years. The whole thing is ridiculous.
Next is Iran.

You'd think that if he really did die years ago that the press would have been all over it like they are now and I don't think Bush would have been able to stop them. The sudden burial at sea does seem a little suspicious, to me, but it was probably better that way so that the terrorists can't say things along the lines of "bring his ass back or we'll bomb you". I'm not going to say I'm 100% certain that it's him or whether or not he died years ago, but I am more inclined to believe this is the real deal.

Alex Jones, IMO can be a little crazy sometimes (though I liked him in Waking Life).

Originally Posted by illidan

I confess myself disappointed. Obama was not strong enough do the right thing and put Bin Laden on trial. Instead he had him killed, because he figured that it would improve his chances for a reelection. He's no better than Bush.

Yes of course, Obama was physically there to pull the headshot on Bin Laden. It's not like a navy seal team made the on the spot decision to take lethal action in the middle of a firefight (instead of possibly risking friendly casualties or even losing Bin Laden). I'm sure that Bin Laden, who seemed to be well-armed, would've agreed to have been quietly captured alive by American forces had Obama not shot him in the head.

And obviously Obama only shot him to gain some votes in the coming election, otherwise he wouldn't have pursued Bin Laden at all. Definitely not a top priority as commander-in-chief of the American armed forces.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

The U.S.A. didn't have any evidence of his death because they are afraid that Muslims will be mad. C'mon! If we are worried what Muslims think then we should stop being the major funder of Isreal and we should get our Army out of Saudi Arabia and we should have left Iraq alone, etc. If Osama is a criminal then he should've been on trial, and only Muslim fanatics would be mildly upset. But of course, in the West here we are the only ones who don't know that he has been dead for years. The whole thing is ridiculous.
Next is Iran.

In all fairness, nothing would have stopped his homeland from demanding he be tried at home (like Saddam).

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Maybe releasing photographs of his bloody dead body would be a bad idea as they could be used by extremists as a rallying point? I'm sure the american government is more concerned with minimizing the negative reaction in the muslim world towards Bin Laden's death than with unimportant conspiracy theories.

You don't have to do anything to incite extremist's hatred. You just have to not follow their religion. A la westboro baptist church.
If they were worried about inciting hatred, they wouldn't have buried him at sea anyway, since according to some articles linked here, that's not how they do it.

I'm more concerned, though, with the fact that the American/British/Australian government are using this as a rallying point to keep troops in Afghanistan to take out the rest of Al Qaeda, or make sure they don't get back in to power.
The war continues....

They were ordered to go in there and kill Osama by Obama himself on Friday according to the Newspaper. (I love putting their names together like that).
This is the oldest political trick in the book. Where is the evidence? You all are always going on about needing evidence. Where is it? Lol
I've seen this type of thing many times before, just people don't remember.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

The U.S.A. didn't have any evidence of his death because they are afraid that Muslims will be mad. C'mon! If we are worried what Muslims think then we should stop being the major funder of Isreal and we should get our Army out of Saudi Arabia and we should have left Iraq alone, etc. If Osama is a criminal then he should've been on trial, and only Muslim fanatics would be mildly upset. But of course, in the West here we are the only ones who don't know that he has been dead for years. The whole thing is ridiculous.
Next is Iran.

It's pretty funny how you deny all of the evidence that he was recently killed, but when it comes to him being dead for years... pft, we don't actually need photos to corroborate stuff after all, the hunches of some villagers in Pakistan is enough to convince any sceptic!

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Thought this was interesting:

The Associated Press: Islamic scholars criticize bin Laden's sea burial

Basically; who gives a flying fuck? Big deal, Bin Laden wasn't properly packaged; perhaps that slightly delayed Allah mailing him directly to the bowels of hell. Who would seriously complain about this?

Good point Xei.

I think that you are demeaning the people in the Middle East by calling them "a few villagers in Pakistan" when it is actually everyone from all classes including the politicians for democracy etc. from Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Burma, Bangladesh, etc...

But your point is a good point. But that point can be turned around on people who believe that he is dead now. Basically, "You believe he has been dead for years and say there is no proof that he was killed yesterday, I believe that he was killed yesterday and say there is no proof that he was killed years ago." Either way, we both agree with no evidence that he is dead now. I just wonder why they decided to "kill" him now. Like I said, I have seen politicians in War make up enemies or keep their death a secret in order to get public support and justify their war to the public so many many times before that it is like sleight of hand tricks of a magician. If you know how the magician does the trick you know what they are doing.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Yes of course, Obama was physically there to pull the headshot on Bin Laden. It's not like a navy seal team made the on the spot decision to take lethal action in the middle of a firefight (instead of possibly risking friendly casualties or even losing Bin Laden).

U.S. team's mission was to kill bin Laden, not capture | Reuters

Originally Posted by dajo

U.S. team's mission was to kill bin Laden, not capture | Reuters

I've heard conflicting reports Bin Laden raid: U.S. had plan to take him alive. Hiding in plan sight? - Lynn Sweet

In any case, it doesn't change what I said. The strike team was engaged in a firefight, people get shot in firefights. I don't see why lives had to be risked to take him alive. I'm glad he's dead, he was too dangerous to stay alive and now we don't have to decide what to do with him.

Yes, it is so convenient in so many ways.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

In any case, it doesn't change what I said.

Wasn't trying to disprove you or anything. Just picked up on that part.

On another note:

Regarding the 'wife as human shield' thing, mentioned a few times here, the statement was taken back.

Bin Laden's wife not killed in raid, White House says | Reuters

I think it's time to wait a few days and let all the information sort itself out properly .

That's probably correct. It's almost impossible to get any news unrelated to osama at the moment. All the major news agencies seem to have dropped everything else. Nevertheless - many times in these kind of 'news tumults" some misinformation remains persistent in ongoing coverage or debate. So I think accuracy is important from the beginning on.

Originally Posted by Xei

Basically; who gives a flying fuck? Big deal, Bin Laden wasn't properly packaged; perhaps that slightly delayed Allah mailing him directly to the bowels of hell. Who would seriously complain about this?

The only reason this was brought up at all is because there was concern over why the evidence was dumped into the ocean. Some suggested that the U.S. military wanted to honor Islamic tradition. This possibility was quickly ruled out by the link in question. So the question remains: Why was his body dumped into the ocean?

This article suggests it was to keep him from becoming a martyr?
At least that's the statement by US Officials at the moment.

U.S. commandos knew bin Laden likely would die | Reuters

It was done so that bin Laden's body would not become a symbol of veneration or inspiration for would-be militants, U.S. officials said.

interesting inverview

Bin Laden's Death Might Not Pose a New Threat: Scientific American

Some times I wonder about the government. It is like they set them stuff up for questions like that.