Thread: ABORTION: Where do you stand?

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

That's cool. Your opinion is not anything new. Prisons are full of selfish people who do not value life, so you're in great company.

You think I'm insane? That's actually kind of cool, I like it. I think you are exactly like every other selfish person I've met. Also, I'm not sure what your point was about the child porn thing, you kind of lost me there.

How am I selfish? Most of the stuff I've posted in this thread actually points towards me caring very much for the state of our planet and humanity as a whole.

If you mean the last part of my post, I was trying to highlight how your analogy between fetuses and dying people on the street doesn't work.

I think that woman should be able to do as they please, but if it happened to me I don't think I'd be able to get rid of the child. But I will not judge a woman for having an abortion, it's her body and it's her choice to bring a child into a world.

Originally Posted by DeadDollKitty

I think that woman should be able to do as they please, but if it happened to me I don't think I'd be able to get rid of the child. But I will not judge a woman for having an abortion, it's her body and it's her choice to bring a child into a world.

How is it her choice? If a fetus had a way of voicing it's desire to survive (which is in basically every life form, no matter how primitive), would it stop being her choice?

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

How is it her choice? If a fetus had a way of voicing it's desire to survive (which is in basically every life form, no matter how primitive), would it stop being her choice?

Um. Yes?

That's kind of the point. A fetus isn't a person, it is a fetus. They don't even have brains until the third trimester. They are a part of the woman they are growing inside of, and it is up to her as to whether or not she want to give birth to it.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Um. Yes?

That's kind of the point. A fetus isn't a person, it is a fetus. They don't even have brains until the third trimester. They are a part of the woman they are growing inside of, and it is up to her as to whether or not she wants to give birth to them.

At no point is a fetus medically considered an actual part of the woman they are growing in. Get it straight.

So, you're telling me that simply because a fetus lacks working vocal chords to say "No don't kill me", it doesn't have rights? What about people born mentally retarded who cannot communicate? Should doctors just cut them apart and throw them in the garbage?

He's not making anything up. A fetus literally does not have the ability to even have experiences. By extension, it has no experiences.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

He's not making anything up. A fetus literally does not have the ability to even have experiences. By extension, it has no experiences.

What makes an "experience"? This is a pretty broad term you're throwing around. A fetus has the ability to have experiences within it's limited environment. It cries, it hiccups, it practices breathing, it has emotion and thought, it's heart beats, it's limbs move, it's cells multiply. Those are all experiences that make us human. Just because it cannot literally talk to you and have a conversation does not mean it's not life and not to be valued. Many people cannot talk to you or have any kind of intelligent interaction. Infact, many people have the existence of a fetus really; being cared for, basic bodily functions, base emotions. But we cannot chop those people up and throw them away, can we?

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

What makes an "experience"? This is a pretty broad term you're throwing around. A fetus has the ability to have experiences within it's limited environment. It cries, it hiccups, it practices breathing, it has emotion and thought, it's heart beats, it's limbs move, it's cells multiply. Those are all experiences that make us human. Just because it cannot literally talk to you and have a conversation does not mean it's not life and not to be valued. Many people cannot talk to you or have any kind of intelligent interaction. Infact, many people have the existence of a fetus really; being cared for, basic bodily functions, base emotions. But we cannot chop those people up and throw them away, can we?

I thought you weren't here to debate the meanings of words...

All of the things you listed are subconscious actions, except for emotion and thought, and thus don't matter. The fetus has no control over those. Regarding emotion and thought, I would like to see some sources showing that fetuses possess such attributes.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

I thought you weren't here to debate the meanings of words...

Sorry, I'm not a mind reader, and some things I really do need clarified.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

All of the things you listed are subconscious actions, except for emotion and thought, and thus don't matter. The fetus has no control over those. Regarding emotion and thought, I would like to see some sources showing that fetuses possess such attributes.

Well, actually emotions can really be subconcious actions too. Some brain dead people cry, or smile, so it's very difficult to pick out what action is subconcious and what is not, especially since as far as I know, neither of us are professionals on the subject. How do you know that a fetus does not cry because it's sad, or smile because it is happy? The burden of proof is as heavy on you as it is on me.

Furthermore, you have ignored all of my questions, which makes me think you don't really have answers to them.

Originally Posted by Marvo

How am I selfish? Most of the stuff I've posted in this thread actually points towards me caring very much for the state of our planet and humanity as a whole.

If you mean the last part of my post, I was trying to highlight how your analogy between fetuses and dying people on the street doesn't work.

You are selfish because you believe you can do what you want to a fetus, simply because it does not have the ability to tell you NO. You are selfish because you believe, like many others, that YOUR life is somehow more valuable that that of your unborn child. You know nothing. You could die tomorrow and have absolutely no impact on the world, but your kid could grow up to be someone who cures cancer. You don't know what you are killing when you have an abortion, you don't know who you are impacting by refusing to give of yourself so that someone else can live.

And how is it any different, if I refuse to help someone who is dying because I don't want to, or if I refuse to give birth because I don't want to? If life is invaluable, life is invaluable. A homeless man is doing nothing but using my tax dollars, and if I stop to help him, my whole day could be negatively impacted. Therefore, I shouldn't have to. Right?