Thread: ABORTION: Where do you stand?

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Really? But what about, for instance, children who were born with horrible birth defects and as a result live their entire life in a home and never have a useful, worthwhile interaction or conversation with anyone? Are they not a person? Do they deserve to die at the whim of someone else because they are not valued?

A crappy experience is still an experience. A fetus literally has no experience whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

A crappy experience is still an experience. A fetus literally has no experience whatsoever.

But what if I disagree with you? What if I think that all those people are doing is using my tax dollars and being miserable, useless lumps of flesh? I should still get to kill them, right? Because to ME, they're not people. And I'm what matters.

See, you get into very murky waters when you start having to define what makes a valid human "experience". It sounds a bit like you're making it up as you go along.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

But what if I disagree with you? What if I think that all those people are doing is using my tax dollars and being miserable, useless lumps of flesh? I should still get to kill them, right? Because to ME, they're not people. And I'm what matters.

See, you get into very murky waters when you start having to define what makes a valid human "experience". It sounds a bit like you're making it up as you go along.

Find me a person that remembers their experience as a fetus.

Also the major difference between you and me is that you're the one making impositions on others and trying to tell them what they can and can't do. For this reason, you should be the one justifying your actions.

Whether or not tax dollars should fund abortions is irrelevant to whether they should be allowed.

No dear, the major difference between us is that you think it's okay to kill. However, you don't have a great argument to back it up.

Find me a person that remembers their first year of life. Humans have shit memories. That does nothing to prove your point.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

No dear, the major difference between us is that you think it's okay to kill. However, you don't have a great argument to back it up.

Find me a person that remembers their first year of life. Humans have shit memories. That does nothing to prove your point.

If I think it's OK to kill then why am I not in jail for murder? Please don't extend your self-righteous morals to all the Earth's population, especially when the majority don't agree with you.

Do you think I'm killing by having my appendix removed? Are you killing when you have your period? Human cells are going to die and we can use any human tissue to create a new organism, potential for life...

A fetus is no more a person than an appendix, and murder is the unlawful killing of a person.

Yes a toddler has very little experience, but it does interact with others. I have to draw the line somewhere, and I feel generous in saying that I would make every effort possible to ensure that a 1 day old baby would have a healthy, normal life.

You seem to be letting your emotions get the better of you. You have to remember that this isn't about what you want (you can do whatever you want), but about what others want. So a 16 year old girl gets pregnant by accident and doesn't want to keep the baby, she gets an abortion. What do you want to happen to her? A fine, prison time, death penalty?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

If I think it's OK to kill then why am I not in jail for murder? Please don't extend your self-righteous morals to all the Earth's population, especially when the majority don't agree with you.

Do you think I'm killing by having my appendix removed? Are you killing when you have your period? Human cells are going to die and we can use any human tissue to create a new organism, potential for life...

A fetus is no more a person than an appendix, and murder is the unlawful killing of a person.

Yes a toddler has very little experience, but it does interact with others. I have to draw the line somewhere, and I feel generous in saying that I would make every effort possible to ensure that a 1 day old baby would have a healthy, normal life.

You seem to be letting your emotions get the better of you. You have to remember that this isn't about what you want (you can do whatever you want), but about what others want. So a 16 year old girl gets pregnant by accident and doesn't want to keep the baby, she gets an abortion. What do you want to happen to her? A fine, prison time, death penalty?

Why are you not in jail for murder? Very simple. Because you are a coward. You think it's okay to kill something as long as it can't tell you that it wants to live, as long as it can't make you feel guilty for causing it physical pain and ending it's life. You are like everyone else who shares your mindset; endlessly selfish and cowardly. Furthermore, you have yet to give me a convincing argument that a fetus is not a person. You cannot even define, in the world according to you, what makes a person a person. Is it age? Mental capability? The ability to retain memories? The ability to conversate? Is it having worthwhile (according to you, OF COURSE since you make the rules) interactions with people? I can find people who are unable to do all of these things. So, why can't I chop them up and throw them away? Give me an answer.

As for my emotions...well, this is a subject pretty close to my heart, so you'll have to excuse me if I get a little revved up. I am very aware that I can do what I want and make my own choices. So can you, and never have you seen me say that I think the best choice is to make abortion illegal. That's not what this thread is about. I want to know people's opinions and how they have formed them in their minds. I also want to see how they defend those opinions. So far, you are very disappointing.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Why are you not in jail for murder? Very simple. Because you are a coward.

Ad hominem.

You think it's okay to kill something as long as it can't tell you that it wants to live, as long as it can't make you feel guilty for causing it physical pain and ending it's life.

I also hunt animals. I'm sure PETA wants to see me in jail as much as you. Different groups have different sets of morals. Do you know that many muslim countries would have you stoned for getting pregnant outside of wedlock? Do you know how many millions of people would like to see you stoned? Take this into consideration while you try to pass judgement on me.

You are like everyone else who shares your mindset; endlessly selfish and cowardly.

Ad hominem. Arguments not insults.

Furthermore, you have yet to give me a convincing argument that a fetus is not a person.

I'm sorry but you are not here to be convinced. You have made your choice which is deeply influenced by your past experience. There's no way that some dude on the internet is going to make your way of thinking do a 180˚ in a few hours.

You cannot even define, in the world according to you, what makes a person a person. Is it age? Mental capability? The ability to retain memories? The ability to conversate? Is it having worthwhile (according to you, OF COURSE since you make the rules) interactions with people?

I have done so numerous times. The fact that you don't agree with my definition of a person doesn't change my perception of one. What is your definition of a person? Is a zygote a person?

I can find people who are unable to do all of these things. So, why can't I chop them up and throw them away? Give me an answer.

Never will you find, no matter how lame or disabled, a person with less experience or personal interaction than a fetus. Like I said, I draw the line somewhere, at birth. No matter how insignificant, after birth you have lived an experience or directly affected another human being.

As for my emotions...well, this is a subject pretty close to my heart, so you'll have to excuse me if I get a little revved up. I am very aware that I can do what I want and make my own choices. So can you, and never have you seen me say that I think the best choice is to make abortion illegal. That's not what this thread is about.

Clearly you are not acting impartially and trying to collect data. You are pushing an agenda and are hostile to those that don't share your mindset. Are you trying to understand why we think abortion is OK or are you trying to attack our way of thinking?

I want to know people's opinions and how they have formed them in their minds. I also want to see how they defend those opinions. So far, you are very disappointing.

So what are you going to do with that 16 year old that got an abortion? Fine, prison, death penalty?