Thread: ABORTION: Where do you stand?

Originally Posted by Mario92

This explains a lot, and demonstrates your massive incomprehension of evolution.

Oh honey, I'm not here to argue the existence of the Creator with you. I'm glad it explains a lot for you though.

Originally Posted by Mario92

There is a teakettle in the asteroid belt. Unicorns and leprechauns exist. There is a giant comet that will impact earth in one week, but it's invisible. If you give me your entire life savings, I'll return them to you at 3000% value.

Prove me wrong.

All that argumentative crap right there? Not taking the bait, sorry.

Originally Posted by Mario92

If you're going to make claims, assertions, and decisions that impact the lives of others (in this case, stating that those who get abortions are immoral, that a fetus is exactly equivalent to a human life), you better make goddamn sure you're 100% correct and be able to substantiate your claims with evidence.

And if you are going to kill something that could possibly be a human life, you better make fucking sure you're 100% correct and be able to substantiate your claims with evidence. So far, you are not able to prove that a soul does not inhabit a fetus. Therefore, it is possible that by aborting a fetus, you may possibly be killing a soul.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

This is no word game, as there is a difference between what one believes to be true and what one can demonstrate to be true.

Your argument rests on the assumption that without souls, life has no meaning and purpose. That much you have claimed with quite a bit of certainty. To substantiate it, you would have to prove that (1) souls exist and that (2) they give meaning and purpose to life. You've yet to do any of that.

Good lord...you love circular arguments, don't you? If I am wrong in my belief that without souls, there is no meaning/purpose to life (any more than a chicken has meaning/purpose), please, show me proof that I am wrong! You are a useless being. Just because you WANT to have purpose doesn't mean you do.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Alright. Well, I think you're ignorant and self-important. So, I'm more valuable than you.

that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But wow, you're one to talk of ignorance.

Blah blah blah. I don't have proof, never stated that I did. How many times do I have to say the same thing?

Ah, so the central foundation of your entire argument rests on faith and superstition. How lovely.

I might impact those around you when I kill you, but it doesn't matter, because those around you are worthless too! Who cares if I go to prison, or if I get away with it? Who cares about laws at all. Who cares about suffering and hardships, you're just an animal. Why are humans moral creatures? What use are morals in a world with no purpose?

Simply by the way our brains are wired. We think, we exist, we are. We feel suffering, pain, happiness, joy. If you need a soul for morality to exist, you need to seriously reexamine your beliefs, because that is absolutely terrifying. Normal people don't hurt others out of a sense of compassion (as well as to preserve their own happiness). The human brain is extraordinarily complex. Don't sell it short. And you still assert there is no purpose without a soul or creator. Please substantiate that claim. We've repeatedly demonstrated exactly how a person can give their lives and others meaning, value, and purpose.

All that argumentative crap right there? Not taking the bait, sorry.

Because it challenges your established beliefs, and you want to continue to cling to them. Exactly like...

And if you are going to kill something that could possibly be a human life, you better make fucking sure you're 100% correct and be able to substantiate your claims with evidence. So far, you are not able to prove that a soul does not inhabit a fetus. Therefore, it is possible that by aborting a fetus, you may possibly be killing a soul.

...this. Sorry, this isn't how reality works. You COULD be killing a thousand people every time you take a bite of chicken. You COULD be perpetuating global suffering simply by existing, and when you die, all suffering will cease. This all MIGHT be happening. But you don't have to prove it ISN'T happening...it is I who must prove it IS. Savvy? If you're willing to accept baseless claims and assertions without evidence, you'll soon find yourself in a great mess of trouble. MIGHT there be a soul in a fetus? Sure. But MIGHT getting an abortion save the soul of the mother (and by extension, her entire family)? Equally possible.

Originally Posted by Mario92

that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But wow, you're one to talk of ignorance.

Exactly, it's MY opinion. Basically everyone you run across will have a reason they are better than you, and who is to say they are wrong? How in the hell are we supposed to classify how valuable people are, we have no unbiased opinions. This brings us back to life needing to be valued simply because it is life.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Ah, so the central foundation of your entire argument rests on faith and superstition. How lovely.

Well, actually, the central foundation of my argument is that people need to look beyond their own selfish wants and have compassion for other people. If you can't prove or aren't sure (which I am not) when life truly begins, err on the side of compassion. But, whatever.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Simply by the way our brains are wired. We think, we exist, we are. We feel suffering, pain, happiness, joy. If you need a soul for morality to exist, you need to seriously reexamine your beliefs, because that is absolutely terrifying. Normal people don't hurt others out of a sense of compassion (as well as to preserve their own happiness). The human brain is extraordinarily complex. Don't sell it short. And you still assert there is no purpose without a soul or creator. Please substantiate that claim. We've repeatedly demonstrated exactly how a person can give their lives and others meaning, value, and purpose.

Nope. You haven't. You are a useless being. You were created out of random events with no love or purpose. So was everyone else. Your brain has evolved enough to develop emotions, and those emotions tell you that you WANT a purpose, a value. But you cannot simply give yourself, or anyone else, a purpose just because you want it. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Sorry, this isn't how reality works. You COULD be killing a thousand people every time you take a bite of chicken. You COULD be perpetuating global suffering simply by existing, and when you die, all suffering will cease. This all MIGHT be happening. But you don't have to prove it ISN'T happening...it is I who must prove it IS. Savvy? If you're willing to accept baseless claims and assertions without evidence, you'll soon find yourself in a great mess of trouble. MIGHT there be a soul in a fetus? Sure. But MIGHT getting an abortion save the soul of the mother (and by extension, her entire family)? Equally possible.

Yeah yeah. Blah blah. Guess what, you don't have a soul, and I don't think you're as valuable as me...so I can kill you if I want, and then I don't have to listen to you repeat the same inane babble over and over.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Exactly, it's MY opinion. Basically everyone you run across will have a reason they are better than you, and who is to say they are wrong? How in the hell are we supposed to classify how valuable people are, we have no unbiased opinions. This brings us back to life needing to be valued simply because it is life.

I don't think so. If a person has a desire to live, they have assigned their own lives value and meaning. If a person has lost that desire, their lives can still have meaning based on the people they interact with. This is why suicide is frowned upon...it impacts the lives of the people the person knows. Let's go to an extreme...let's say there's an old hermit. nobody knows him. Nobody is aware he's alive. If he dies, nobody will care, including himself. In fact, he wants to die. Are you going to deny him that? Does it do any harm? Is his action immoral, just because he's choosing to end a life? Are you protecting life for the sake of life, or for the value it carries?

Well, actually, the central foundation of my argument is that people need to look beyond their own selfish wants and have compassion for other people. If you can't prove or aren't sure (which I am not) when life truly begins, err on the side of compassion. But, whatever.

I value freedom over compassion. The freedom of women to not be forced to carry unwanted fetuses to term.

Nope. You haven't. You are a useless being. You were created out of random events with no love or purpose. So was everyone else. Your brain has evolved enough to develop emotions, and those emotions tell you that you WANT a purpose, a value. But you cannot simply give yourself, or anyone else, a purpose just because you want it. Sorry.

Sure I can. My purpose is to become a pharmacist, live well, be happy, and enjoy life. You can't assert that otherwise. My purpose is my decision. I have the capacity to feel love, compassion, and the full spectrum of emotion. My life has value because I and those around me declare it so. Deal with it.

Yeah yeah. Blah blah. Guess what, you don't have a soul, and I don't think you're as valuable as me...so I can kill you if I want, and then I don't have to listen to you repeat the same inane babble over and over.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the future Hitler. This isn't even relevant. This is a hollow threat that completely fails to address my point, instead defaulting back onto your assertion that souls must exist. Your argument goes something like this:
-why do souls exist?
-because life has meaning
-why does life have meaning?
-because souls exist
-why do souls exist?
.... and so on. You accuse others of using the very circular reasoning you yourself are guilty of. You have absolutely nothing to substantiate your claim that souls exist, and therefore, all arguments pertaining to souls and the existence thereof are null and void. Your position is compromised, your premise shattered, and yet you will cling to them.