Thread: ABORTION: Where do you stand?

Originally Posted by Mario92

I don't think so. If a person has a desire to live, they have assigned their own lives value and meaning. If a person has lost that desire, their lives can still have meaning based on the people they interact with. This is why suicide is frowned upon...it impacts the lives of the people the person knows. Let's go to an extreme...let's say there's an old hermit. nobody knows him. Nobody is aware he's alive. If he dies, nobody will care, including himself. In fact, he wants to die. Are you going to deny him that? Does it do any harm? Is his action immoral, just because he's choosing to end a life? Are you protecting life for the sake of life, or for the value it carries?

People are suicidal mostly because they don't want to deal with the pain of life anymore, not because they do not desire life anymore. They do desire life, just not the circumstances they are in. Everyone desires life, it is innate. All life should be protected if it can be. That's pretty much all I have to say about that.

Originally Posted by Mario92

I value freedom over compassion. The freedom of women to not be forced to carry unwanted fetuses to term.

I understand that. There are many people like you who do not value compassion. Prisons are filled with them. You are not unique.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Sure I can. My purpose is to become a pharmacist, live well, be happy, and enjoy life. You can't assert that otherwise. My purpose is my decision. I have the capacity to feel love, compassion, and the full spectrum of emotion. My life has value because I and those around me declare it so. Deal with it.

That's wonderful, I hope you do enjoy it. You do have a purpose and value, at least in my eyes. But if we're going with your theory, you really don't. Being a pharmacist is pointless, anyone you help is just as useless as you are. You can declare anything you want, it does not make it true. You were made from random acts, you have no greater purpose, and you will die that way.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the future Hitler. This isn't even relevant. This is a hollow threat that completely fails to address my point, instead defaulting back onto your assertion that souls must exist. Your argument goes something like this:
-why do souls exist?
-because life has meaning
-why does life have meaning?
-because souls exist
-why do souls exist?
.... and so on. You accuse others of using the very circular reasoning you yourself are guilty of. You have absolutely nothing to substantiate your claim that souls exist, and therefore, all arguments pertaining to souls and the existence thereof are null and void. Your position is compromised, your premise shattered, and yet you will cling to them.

I'm not really going to kill you...You know that, right? Although I consider you calling me "the next Hitler" abusive and unneeded, I'll let it go. Maybe you should relax a little though.

Why do souls exist?
Because the Creator made them.
Why does life have meaning?
Because the Creator made us to give Him glory. That is life's ultimate meaning.

Now, that comes from my own spiritual standpoint, which you disagree with. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

People are suicidal mostly because they don't want to deal with the pain of life anymore, not because they do not desire life anymore. They do desire life, just not the circumstances they are in. Everyone desires life, it is innate. All life should be protected if it can be. That's pretty much all I have to say about that.

I'm not so sure. Some cases, sure, but not all. There are those with total indifference toward life, too.

I understand that. There are many people like you who do not value compassion. Prisons are filled with them. You are not unique.

Hah, cute.

That's wonderful, I hope you do enjoy it. You do have a purpose and value, at least in my eyes. But if we're going with your theory, you really don't. Being a pharmacist is pointless, anyone you help is just as useless as you are. You can declare anything you want, it does not make it true. You were made from random acts, you have no greater purpose, and you will die that way.

If I can give people an additional ten years of happiness and joy and pleasure, and that in turn brings me happiness, who are you to say that counts for nothing? Who cares about the final destination? Enjoy the journey while you can. Have fun those extra ten years. You only go around once.

I'm not really going to kill you...You know that, right? Although I consider you calling me "the next Hitler" abusive and unneeded, I'll let it go. Maybe you should relax a little though.

Not sure if trolling now. But what you said was essentially Hitler's beliefs: "I am superior, you are inferior, you are worthless and must die"

Why do souls exist?
Because the Creator made them.
Why does life have meaning?
Because the Creator made us to give Him glory. That is life's ultimate meaning.

Shelve the damn creators a moment and try to take this debate seriously, please.

Originally Posted by Mario92

I'm not so sure. Some cases, sure, but not all. There are those with total indifference toward life, too.

Give every suicidal person a million dollars and someone who loves them. See how many of them kill themselves. It's not actual life they don't want, everyone has a survival instinct, it's emotional pain they do not want.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Hah, cute.

Thanks! But...really, it's true.

Originally Posted by Mario92

If I can give people an additional ten years of happiness and joy and pleasure, and that in turn brings me happiness, who are you to say that counts for nothing? Who cares about the final destination? Enjoy the journey while you can. Have fun those extra ten years. You only go around once.

LOL, die tomorrow or in 10 years. It doesn't matter. You were created with no purpose and will die with no purpose.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Not sure if trolling now. But what you said was essentially Hitler's beliefs: "I am superior, you are inferior, you are worthless and must die"

Those are not my beliefs. Those are probably as far from my beliefs as possible. They are yours, you just don't want to cop to them.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Shelve the damn creators a moment and try to take this debate seriously, please.

I am taking this very seriously.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Give every suicidal person a million dollars and someone who loves them. See how many of them kill themselves. It's not actual life they don't want, everyone has a survival instinct, it's emotional pain they do not want.

Speaking from experience, I've entertained the notion of suicide, not as a means of escape, but merely out of curiosity. Passive interest in what lies beyond, if anything. I don't fear death, but nor do I seek it out. Being dead has a tendency to ruin your entire week and hurt those you love. I can wait for death. It'll find me soon enough.

Thanks! But...really, it's true.

Of course it is. You've convinced yourself of it. And in doing so, have equated me with hardened criminals. I simply value freedom over compassion. Nothing wrong with that. Hell, there are thousands that go to war every day to defend freedom. People who will kill for it. We call them soldiers and veterans.

LOL, die tomorrow or in 10 years. It doesn't matter. You were created with no purpose and will die with no purpose.

I have a purpose. You choose not to accept it. I will fulfill my purpose and live happily while I do so. Strange, you discount all of life's experiences save for purpose. Anything that has no purpose is meaningless in your eyes. You don't consider the capacities for love or emotion or happiness...only purpose. I am a human being. My purpose is happiness. Accept it or don't. I've made my decision. Now make yours.

I am taking this very seriously.

It's a farce. You either don't know two bollocks about debating, or you don't particularly care.

Guys... guys... guys...

This is getting way out of hand. Just calm down and let's all take a refreshing read to our Community's rules!

This thread is very active and this is a topic that can be discussed with better manners. If this keeps going this way, I will lock the thread. So just take a few deep breaths before posting!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by PercyLucid

Guys... guys... guys...

This is getting way out of hand. Just calm down and let's all take a refreshing read to our Community's rules!

This thread is very active and this is a topic that can be discussed with better manners. If this keeps going this way, I will lock the thread. So just take a few deep breaths before posting!

Thanks!

Maybe you should tell buriedmonsters to chill with the "your life has no meaning/you might as well kill yourself" idiocy. That's probably what's causing all of the tension.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Maybe you should tell buriedmonsters to chill with the "your life has no meaning/you might as well kill yourself" idiocy. That's probably what's causing all of the tension.

Maybe I should tell you have a warning if you keep adding tension. This goes to everybody. So please, respect other user's believes.

Thanks!